Biewer Yorkie Association
 

Does anyone here have a F1, F2 etc or a Biewer registered with this association. Is it a legitimate association?

Thanks,

Mary

I know nothing about it.....Users you might want to ask Aprillove, scrappindee Jeanie K Pinehaven TammyJm I think all own a Biewer or Parti they may be able to help.....

Scrapindee knows a lot about Biewers. You might want to ask her or Kathy785.

I don't know where F1, F2s are registered. Some clubs are limiting themselves to their own local registeries.

Full Biewers that I breed are registered with IBC, the Internation Biewer Club in Germany. Until we get recognized by AKC, I will continue to follow through with this registry. This continues the practice and the pedigrees through 5 & 6 generations, important if you are planning to bred a puppy you purchase.

If you are thinking of purchasing a Biewer from someone in the US, you may want to make sure it is registered with the IBC. The IBC is one of the largest clubs in Germany for the Biewers. They have told people that if puppies born in the US are not registered with them, they will not honor or register any of the resulting offspring. There are also "registries" popping up in the US that are for Biewers only. These are not worth the paper they are printed on.

What's an F1 and an F2? I know they mean first and second generation, but I thought that applied to cross-breeds? As in first cross of a Maltese and a yorkie would result in an F1: 1/2yorkie and 1/2maltese. Then 2 F1s are bred to make an F2 generation. So how does that apply to Biewers if they are their own breed?

An F1 is a yorkie with a Biewer (many consider Biewers a separate breed, even though they are yorkies). All of the babies will carry one piebald (Biewer) gene and one regular yorkie gene. They will ALL look like regular yorkies.
F2 is an F1 breed to a Biewer. Some puppies will be Biewers (2 piebald genes) and some will look like regular yorkies (one piebald gene and one regular yorkie gene)
Most Biewer people do not use the terms F1, F2, etc. I have two girls that I call Splitters (their genes are split, 1 piebald gene, 1 regular yorkie gene). It does not matter if they are F1, F2, or F58, a splitter only 1 piebald gene and 1 regular yorkie gene.
Right now I have no intentions of breeding to a yorkie that is not a splitter. I won't say never though, as who knows what the future will bring. "Never" can make you into a lier!!!

Just to clear up some misconceptions here... although I am not familiar with what the BYA stands for -- in order to draw your own conclusions, you should go to their site and read...

You will find many people who say the IBC is the only acceptable registry. Number one... the IBC is NOT a registry -- it is a Biewer Club. There are many registries in Germany that accept the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, and they all acknowledge and accept each other's registry. There are registries in the U.S. as well, which have been started to "register" the Biewers that are born in the U.S., in order to keep track of the lines here. Out of the five Biewer Clubs in the U.S., four of them have started registries, and I'm sure these Clubs do not feel it's a "worthless" piece of paper. When a new breed is starting out in a new country, it's important to keep track of bloodlines. Isn't this what happened when the Yorkshire Terrier came to the United States? In order to get breed acceptance, there must be records kept.

I know that the BNR has been validated by both the IABCA and the NAKC and are allowed to show using this registry. These are the only show venues that the Biewers are allowed to show in in the United States at this time.

For the Original Poster, I would suggest you check out a couple of great club websites and do some further research if you have any concerns... www.bytnc.org and www.biewerbci.org

I believe I did say that the IBC is a CLUB. (like AKC is more than just a registry, it is a club!) I still believe that the Biewers need to be registered in GERMANY until they are accepted by AKC. The IBC will NOT honor US born dogs not registered with them, so you cannot say that the German registries all honor the other registries. (Yes, some of the German registries are just that, they are not clubs) People looking into purchasing a Biewer need to know these facts. I do know that the IABCA and NAKC are accepting the American registries, but I have also been told that I could start my own Biewer registry and they would accept that too. Now tell me what good would the KMTBR be to anyone??? Yes, we need to keep track of our lineages, but to say that the American registries are the way to go is also misleading people. The registries here in the US are basically for one purpose only, To obtain the needed information to gain AKC acceptance.

I have also been told, but not tried it out yet that ACA, UABR, and APRI will allow the Biewers to be shown (by representatives of these clubs)

There are several Biewer clubs here in the US and I have sent people to all of the different web pages, whether I agree with them or not. There are people here on YT that can verify that I have sent them web addresses for the different clubs. Each person needs to decide for themself if they want to even belong to a club and if so which one. Sad to say that because of the bickering they could probably belong to only one club and not have multiple memberships. I can see that you are biased as you only put 2 of the addresses down for the US clubs. What about letting them check out the other ones too?
http://biewer-btca.com/
http://www.geocities.com/bieweryorkieassociation/
People need to take note of the members' lists on the clubs' sites. I did belong to one of the clubs that Toby'sMama gave, but their membership has been rapidly dropping. I would not belong to a club that changed its rules to suit the president, treated members unfairly, and were dishonest. That is not how I wanted to be known, so I could not stay a member with a clear conscience. I chose to not belong to any group, but I have been searching for a US Biewer club that will be honest and treat its members with respect.

Thank all of you for responding. This is great information.

Mary

VERY informative! So would the same hold true with Parti's? I was told splitter is a term used in Biewer lines and carrier is used in Parti lines....So essentially they are the same thing just different words or terms?

both mean a yorkie that has the pie bald gene?

I would say so.

To the OP...I would recommend you do your homework on the breed if you are considering adding a Biewer in the future. As you can tell, the Biewer world is full of drama at the current moment, so it may be wise to research away from these boards as well, sadly, to find an unbiased and influenced answer.
I hope I can say and it can be agreed on that there are several registries here in the US at the current moment--all of whom claim to be keeping very in depth records in an attempt to have the breed recognized by the AKC, and/or to help promote the breed, which is still fairly new and low in numbers. Some place more emphasis and importance on future AKC recognition, some place more on continuing the registration in Germany and everyone believes that the club/registry/board/whatever that THEY belong to is in the right. I will remain optomistic that the passion felt by all sides will be beneficial in the end in helping this breed along.
In the end, you will have to decide what it is that YOU are looking for and feel comfortable with. Make sure that any breeders you consider can trace their lines and provide proof that the dogs are what they claim to be. As long as they can do that, provide proof that the dogs are healthy and disease free, it doesn't make a hill of beans worth of difference (IMO) who's piece of paper it is written on.
Good luck! You are bound to need it!:)

I do think it is important what piece of papers you are getting from the breeder you purchase from. Everyone needs to do their homework.

I will continue to register my dogs with IBC. My puppies have their registrations with IBC. If puppy buyers are okay with American registeries only, that is their decision. And buyers should not be paying for registering their puppies. JMHO.

I don't understand how you can decide to make up a registry. Don't you have to go through someone to decide if it's ok, or is it like the CKC, anyone can just join. My Biewer is registered by the IBC, and seeing as that's where Biewers first came from I would equate them to the AKC or UKC. JMO

Well Kathy… you’re right… the AKC is a CLUB, as well as a registry. This is a club that registers multiple breeds, not just one. You also said that anybody who bought their dogs should make sure they are registered with the IBC. The IBC is just a Club… the IBC dogs are registered with the DHZ. And, if you read my post, I said: There are many registries in Germany that accept the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, and they all acknowledge and accept each other's registry. I stated that German registries accepted OTHER German registries.

I don’t believe that I said “American Registries are the way to go” – those are your words, not mine. I merely stated that there are American Registries that are being started here to keep track of the lines of these dogs. Most breeders that I know of are dual registering their breeding dogs with accepted German registries. How many registries are your dogs registered with? Are they all DHZ/IBC?

As far as being biased… the OP was asking about the BYA – they most likely already have that website. I put two down, and now you have shared another with them. I agree, every person should decide for themselves if they want to belong to a club. But they should not be given partial or wrong information. Anyone who is interested in these dogs should do their OWN research and not go by just one person’s opinion.

As far as taking note of members’ lists – those are not always what they seem. And yes, Kathy, you actually belonged to TWO clubs that I did. The one you’re speaking of -- the rules were NOT changed to suit the president, (or anyone for that matter) and the dishonesty was on the part of a member who broke the club rules and started rumors about other members. She did not get “kicked out” she resigned after her lies were exposed. As far as treating members with respect, you have aligned yourself with people in a club who have no respect for any one. The bickering and backstabbing is rampant in their ranks – and their sole purpose seems to be to discredit anyone and everyone who chooses not to “believe” their way… and will stoop to the lowest levels to accomplish this.

Respect should be earned, not given.

I believe that's how all registries start. Someone decides to do it. (Usually a breed club) A registry is to keep track of the lines that are being bred. It's just keeping records. The Yorkies came from England. There was a breed club that started in the USA that began a registry for yorkies. Now we have the YTCA. What if everyone said we could only have our Yorkies registered in England? Why is it such a bad idea for the Biewer clubs in America to want to keep records of their lines? Actually the FIRST registry for the Biewers in Germany was the ACH. I'm not trying to tell anyone NOT to go with the IBC registry... I also have a dog registered through them. But, as your post indicates, you also didn't have the correct information. I'm only stating there is more out there then one German club to register the Biewers with. I agree with Bama from a previous post... research, research, research -- and then do more research. You will be surprised at what you can learn!

Kelly,

Maybe it is time to stop repeating "stories" or conveniently misaligning the truth.......your version of the truth is coming from the President of a club that DID change rules and there is evidence of it. You don't breed dogs; you own two dogs. You have become an authority on registeries and clubs, how???

You choose who you want to hang out and believe. Kathy is a much too nice person to malign. You should be ashamed of yourself--go talk among your selves in your private forums.

I don't like to become involved in conversations such as this. But I just want to say to the original poster the BEST advice given here is to do your own research, and more research. The bickering going on in the Biewer community is frivolous and certainly not helping to promote this very special breed. There are many clubs and associations, as well as registries. Only you can decide that which best suits you. Do your research on the history of this wonderful breed as well.

As far as this statement:

You don't breed dogs; you own two dogs. You have become an authority on registeries and clubs, how???

I don't believe being a breeder makes one any more an authority just because they happen to breed. "just owning" dogs doesn't mean you are any less worthy or informed. JMHO

Sorry Aprillove, the previous poster is trying to come across as an authority and I'm questioning her specifically. It was not to put any owner of dogs down. However, this individual neither shows or breeds--so if the best research, without some hands on experience--including failures and successes--is only what she "hears" from others, I question the authenticity just as others should do.

The best advice is do your own research. Ask a lot of questions, and don't take one person's knowledge as the expert. There is no expert here on the Biewers, except for Dagmar. Keep asking questions and try to grow; and finally stop bringing up old, old nonsense that doesn't not need to be aired in a public forum--they do a good job with it in their private forums.

First of all the IBC is a club and registry under the umbrella of the DHZ. If you look on your dog's pedigree you will see an IBC registration no#. Both associations are government licensed. Unlike America, criteria has to be met to get state approval to be licensed. Most of the other registries in America were started because they were suspended from AKC or by puppy mill brokers.
Our Club keeps a stud book at this point and not a registry because our members register with the IBC and there is no need in registering in multiple places. We will be able to get an accurate record of all lineages from the IBC when the time comes as it is the most thorough registry to date. There have been over 1500 puppies registered this year with the IBC. When AKC asks for records of all the dogs they are going to accept, will there be any other club/registry able to produce as thorough a back ground on all dogs?
Yes the club that Kathy is speaking of did change the rules. If the president was adhering to the rules of her club she should have been kicked out herself for breaking the very rules that she accused Dee of breaking. She did it when she was member of the BYTCA and continued when she started her club and you know that is the truth.
Let's look at all forum post and you can see we have only come on these forums in defense of the lies of your group. That is easy enough to look up.
Bickering and backstabbing are usually terms used when referring to a group of friends or friendly associations. Since no one in our club bickers nor do they belittle or badmouth each other your terminology can only be fitting of your own group.
Your statement that we want to discredit everyone that doesn't agree with us is ignorant to say the lease. Since you have not spent any time talking to anyone in our club you have no knowledge of any of their views so that makes your statement false and defamatory.

Dee:
I am not just "repeating "stories" or conveniently misaligning the truth..." I am very capable of doing my own research, and do not just repeat what one person tells me. I may hear information from one source, but the internet is a wonderful research tool that allows me to check that information with many, many different sources. Please share your evidence on any rules that DID change. You're right... I don't breed dogs; and what does only owning two dogs have to do with anything? I in no way consider myself an authority on registeries and clubs -- I simply do research and believe it is EVERYONE's option to learn and share information!

I never maligned Kathy -- I merely pointed out there was more information to be shared. I have no reason to be ashamed of that, and feel like I have just as much right to post on YT as anyone else here does. If Kathy feels I maligned her, I appologize profusely for the misunderstanding.

Thank you Mary Kay... I'm sure there are many people here on YT who neither breed or show who agree with your statement.

As noted before, I do not breed nor do I show. It has nothing to do with my ability to read, Google, read some more and learn more. Because someone doesn't breed or show does that mean they are stupid? In fact, I don't believe that Dagmar is a breeder of Biewers, and only owned 1 Biewer. I could be wrong here, and please correct me if I am. Never have I seen or heard different, but I am willing to learn more here.

Using your theory that only a breeder can be knowledgable, then if someone were pregnant, they should only go to a female Dr. who has had babies because a male Dr. is not an expert?

If you will check my posts, Dee -- I wasn't the one to "bring up old, old nonsense." Please don't put that blame on me. I did not attack anyone, but yet you feel it's okay to attack me?

The way it looks, you are trying to get this thread closed, and it probably will be. So unfortunately, any VALID information is null and void.

Kelly,
I think that you should have checked before stating that the IBC is NOT a registry. You also should have stuck by your suggestion of respecting others before you jumped on Kathy and Dee. It would be nice if everyone would stop using the word "attacked". Differing of opinions or defending oneself or clarifying misdeeds is not an attack. If you were at the Twin Towers or on a ship in Pearl Harbor then that is an attack. Please keep doing your research as you might find additional information that might broaden your perspective.

Reading through this, a few thoughts come to mind:

1) Someone mentioned that 'we only came here to...' Key phrase. There are a few here that rarely EVER post, yet felt the need to bring some BS drama from the Biewer world to YT. Leave that crap somewhere else--this is YORKIEtalk. There wasn't any need to defend yourself. No one here singled out any of you, your clubs, your dogs or your forums. Please try to show some respect for the regular members of YT here who could care less about the war brewing among Biewer breeders and owners.

2) As for the "you don't show or breed so what do you know" remarks. That is an rude and ridiculous assumption for anyone to make, regardless of what breed you are talking about. I say that because I have seen some of the accusations you same few have made about me--laughable and far off the mark. It doesn't take a lot of research to look around here on YT and see that there are alot of people here who are PET owners that are far more educated than alot who claim to be breeders out there. Not everyone is so willing--or crazy enough--to put their personal life, knowledge and every move out there on a forum for everyone to take shots at and criticize. Why would they? So they can get this type of treatment? No thanks! When it comes down to it, you have NO idea what the person on the other side of the PC does or does not know. To act as if you do and as if you are THE authority because you breed, show, own a Biewer, saw one at a gas station, fart purple bubbles, can stand on your head--WHATEVER your reason is...it's insulting and really says alot about you.

Sorry, but I think Biewers are beautiful, just like Yorkies. I'm always willing to chat it up with any Yorkie minded person and discuss how great they are any time I get the chance. If someone has a question and I could help them even a little, I'm thrilled. It is very sad and discouraging to see people ask questions and they can't even get simple answers without a HUGE debate over who is right and who is wrong breaking out. Honestly, makes you wonder who in their right mind would even CONSIDER one. :(

AMEN ! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Bama,
I thought this was a thread about Biewers. Yet you seem very upset that it is here. You could always choose not to go on a thread that you find offensive. Going on a tirade and using the type of language you are using is very inappropriate for what we are trying to solve here. It seems that you are attempting to close down this thread.

:thumbdown plain and simple "not nice" :thumbdown

I thought this thread was about Biewers too? No confusion there? What 'language' is that?:confused: Surely 'fart' isn't that offensive. And if I am guilty of a tirade...which seems a bit of a stretch, if you ask me...then at least I am not alone.;)

And yes, I am upset. To see someone make statements that indicate the only people with knowledge and worthy of commenting must show or breed...why WOULDN'T that be offensive. Yes, I have a choice not to post...obviously, I didn't make that choice. I chose to state my opinion, much like yourself.

It is not... "we only came here to"

As usual a simple statement has been twisted and misquoted once again. No wonder you people say what you say, you don't understand plain English.

Why did you even come to this thread if you didn't have anything of value to add. Your language sums up quite a bit about your character. It is obvious that you have one thing in mind and that is to cause trouble. You as Kelly, are listening to the rants of one person. Too bad.

No, I'm not listening to the rants of one person--I'm listening to you too. It is evident by post counts who is here to cause trouble. You have stated yourself above why you come here. What can be viewed as 'valuable' depends on the person reading it.:)