I read the "information" on the link that you posted. I found it interesting that the writer was vague about the details pulled from "The Stockkeeper in 1887." She states, "Swift's Old Crab, a Scotch Terrier, Kershaw's Kitty, a Skye, and an Old English Terrier bitch of the black and tan saddle."

According to the actual publication "The Stockkeeper in 1887," it was stated that these dogs had no pedigree, and that Swift's Old Crab was a "cross bred Scotch Terrier." This all leads back to my theory that who knows and can guarantee, WHAT genes are in our yorkies.

What are you talking about? What I said was that how can a show breeder say that something happened when it didnt?
And I disagree with you. You can be sure something would turn up if it was there. As for Nikko, I don't know them personally, I have heard before it was alleged that there was a pari colour involving their dog but again what did the pedigree look like that went with the parti colour if indeed it existed.
I really think that the parti breeders are very set on going the direction they are going which is fine I don't care at all. But they are not rare colour yorkies, fact remains that the long time 30+ years show breeders I know have never produced it and I have no idea how breeders who do not know show breeders and do not know the show world at all can pass such judgements on our dogs and how we do things and what we might do if???
So, my points of view have been posted and said, I am far too busy to put anymore time into this.
Good luck in your endeavours in breeding whatever it is you are doing, you can be sure NO ONE reputable in YOrkies will ever deal with you, and for those who want to buy rare or off colour dogs of any breed, go ahead as long as you know what you are buying. If you don't care, why in the world would I?
In my experience, many people who want to just breed or have/want off colours get turned down by reputable show breeders when they try to buy a dog or get a stud service then will have nothing good to say about show breeders. My opinion only, based on experience. There is nothing on YT that I haven't heard or seen before.

I did not say that "all the info on the internet is invalid" fyou are now twising my words to try to prove your point. Don't do that the readers of this thread are smarter than that.

The claim that the person who wrote that is a geneticist is irrelevent. No one knows when, where or how the piebald gene got into the mix, but it is pretty obvious that it is there because these parti colored pups are coming from purebred registered champion lines of traditionsl yorkshire terriers. That much has been proven. So denying the fact that it is there is foolish.

As I wrote in another post, the maltese and the yorkies were all shown as broken haired scottish terriers, in the early 1860's, so it is more likely than not, that they were bred together.

I don't claim to understand everything that goes into establishing a breed and getting dogs to purebred status. I would imagine that once the breed is established, all the registered dogs in that breed would be considered pure bred. And only registered dogs of the same type could produce purebred offspring. Is it more compklicated than that?

The parti colored dogs' offspring were DNA'd to prove that they came from the purbred dogs that the breeders claimed to be the parents. It satisfied the AKC, and that is all that matters.

Are you saying the Gloria Liptman was not an honest breeder? Just because no one has personally told you that one of their champion dogs has sired a parti puppy, does not mean that it hasn't happened. It just means that they didn't care to share that information with you.

You didn't know about Nikko Kennels either until we told you.

As for how much money is made from breeding these partis or those breeding designer dogs and selling them, what difference does it make, as long as the breeders are not trying to pass them off as being something other than a mixed breed. If people want them and are willing to pay for them, I guess that is their own business. As long as they are selling healthy loving dogs, who are they hurting?

And you are lumping all parti breeders into the same category. Some of us actually have a purpose other than to make money.

Yup that is what I read also. that comes from a book written by Today's most leading authorities on the Yorkshire Terrier breed.

What are you talking about? What I said was that how can a show breeder say that something happened when it didnt? And I disagree with you. You can be sure something would turn up if it was there.

It would only turn up if on carrier was bred to another carrier ... if a carrier is breeding non carriers, than it wouldn't show up (with regards to the off colors we're talking about).

"As for Nikko, I don't know them personally, I have heard before it was alleged that there was a pari colour involving their dog but again what did the pedigree look like that went with the parti colour if indeed it existed."

Well, it's not alleged, it's a fact. As for pedigree, here's a link to my boy's extended pedigree.

http://hometown.aol.com/pinehaven/KidsPedigree.html

The problem here Lorraine, is that NO ONE CAN PROVE A NEGATIVE, so it is always unwise to take that stand.

No one can prove that something doesn't exist or didn't happen, or will NEVER happen, because there would be no evicence to support that theory.

Never say Never

yes, that's true. I didn't buy my girl BECAUSE she has Durrer's. I bought her IN SPITE of it figuring that what little she had was far enough back that whatever problem the line may or may not have had was too far back to hurt her.

if you are referring to MY post, below is EXACTLY what I said. Not one time did I say i knew it for a fact. i said from the beginning it was what I heard. so if it's my post you are talking about here, you are the one that needs to re-read it and as far as not mentioning the "supposed to be problem", i certainly DO know exactly what the problem was and what dogs produced them and I also know what this breeder did about it to correct the problem She is to be commended for doing what she had to do to get her line good again.and as to how do i know, well, one of the show breeders on here sent the info to another person in a pm. that pm was forwarded to me so you might say, i found out from someone 'in the know" Don't you just love pm's? lots of things are not supposed tobe posted on the public forum but oh my, how those pm's fly. my last words on this thread. it has been interesting and altho,, i dislike the choclate dogs, i love thee partis. i think they are so cute. My original post is quoted below if this is the one you are talking about.


that's not all Durrer has produced the past few years either from what I have heard .

[QUOTE=Mardelin;1348322]but, mary, the feeling that comes thru these posts is that unless you are a show breeder, you have to be a BYB. I just don't agree with that at all. Until recently, i had no interest at all in showing. I also don't know many breeders, show or not, that take any better care of their babies than I do. I, for one, do not consider myself a backyard breeder even tho I was called that by someone i loved on here in a pm to another person that was forwarded to me.

Read again. I obviously was NOT talking to you! I was replying to Paulapoo.

Copy of my post for you to reread.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by paulapoo
I know nothing of breeding and showing, but while following along with this thread I wondered....Would it really destroy a show breeders reputation if they produced a parti, etc? That seems extreme. Just curious.

You need to reread the post then because a statement was made that she (the breeder in question) had produced other things (not mentioned) and gave the impression that it could be bad then later posted that it was all things that she had heard and did not know personally."

As show breeders we take on a lot of expense and hard work to maintain the standard held for many years for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yes, we don't like breeders coming in and trying to change what is and was the original picture of the beginning of the Yorkshire Terrier Club and the standard that they set. This Standard doesn’t include the Parti-colored. If they want to start their own club and do their own work towards maintaining their own standard, then more power to them; but do not try to become just another color of a Yorkie and sale them as “rare”. Most show breeders join local clubs or even their National Club and sign agreements to follow a strict code of ethics with the objective to keep and maintain the Standard set for our breeds. We breed for show prospects and sell the others for pets. I personally have not made money from breeding and in fact work 3 jobs in order to be able to show my dogs in the show ring. I have nothing to hide about my dogs and you are welcome to PM me and I will give you my vets number. I have all my shots and everything done at the vets and my vet has seen each and every puppy that has been whelped by my dogs. None of them have been off-colored. It is easy to say things about people, but our point is that it should not be said unless it can be proven and that the person that is being accused should have the opportunity to defend themselves against what is being said. Just remember the old saying, "There but by the Grace of God goes I."

Sonja
www.tx2stepnyorkies.com

summit yorkies
 

Wow, I just went to the summit parti yorkie web site. Had to look because I have a male who is sired by Ch Summits Gangster of Love. Thank GOD its not the same kennel. I didnt think that show kennel, Summit, had partis. The parti summits dogs seem to havre horendous hair. Dont those people believe in grooming before they take web site pictures??? Definately the silk texture of the yorkie is NOT there. The white looks alot like the texture of maltese hair. I guess I would have to see and feel the dogs in person to know for sure. I have a question: Why dont all you parti breeders just go and buy a Biewer? Almost all of the hard work has already been done and you will have a dog with papers and can show it too. They look basically the same as parti colored yorkies and supposedly come from pure yorkie stock as well. Just a thought. Lynn

[QUOTE=Sugar's Mom;1349030]
If you've read my posts in the past....I've always stated I have no problem with anyone breeding. What I do have a problem with is people attempting to pass thereself of as a serious hobby breeder. I would have more respect for someone if they were honest and stated the only reason they were breeding is to sell puppies and make money. After all someone has to supply the pet world with puppies. If one's breeding practices are steller, there should be no reason to take it personal and continousely attempt to defend oneself.

Maybe because we love the challenge. Why is everyone so concerned about why we breed the parti colored yorkies. The Biewers ar not AKC registered and cannot be shown in AKC events.

Is this picture more to your liking?

parti
 

Thank God,neither can parti. Since I dont see any Parti breeders coming together to form their own club, maybe this post will get them motivated. But be prepared for years of hard work before you are sucessful in creating your own breed that is recognised by AKc. Maybe you should ask the Biewer breeders how they started. I say go for it!!!! The skys the limit!!!!! Hopefully all you parti breeders have what it takes to get the job done. Come to think of it, I always wanted a miniature Afgan Hound. But there are not enough years left in my lifetime to see it through. Lynn

Actually, thank God, parti's CAN participate in AKC events, just not conformation type classes.