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| | #16 |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
| I keep bringing this up because, as a dog trainer and a dog lover, I am quite passionate about it. There are always threads on here about people who cannot take their beloved "family member" here or there and I always think, well I can help them if they are aware of the service animal law. I guess so, you have posted it at least 3 times in the last month. I only hope those you are "helping" HAVE a disability. Otherwise it is just morally wrong, it is called lying. As much as I love my dog I am not going to make up some disability so he/she can go to the mall with me. Just out of curiosity how do you train a dog to signal when you are getting a migraine? Or are getting ready to have a seizure? Are you qualified to do that? |
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| | #17 | |
| No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 288
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| | #18 |
| Stewie Rox the Sox Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,306
| I'll have to agree that I am thoroughly offended when people use a service animal as an excuse to sneak their dogs in places. Having a true disability or condition is one thing and being morally irresponsible is another. One reason I feel so passionately about it is because my Lab (RIP) flunked out of school to be a therapy dog because she was too friendly. Not every Rex or Rufus is cut out to be a service animal. Also, I'd like to add that laws can be interpreted differently by different people; this one is especially subjective.
__________________ Kristy & Stewie |
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| | #19 |
| Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wylie TX
Posts: 1,577
| I still say, who are we to decide who does and who does not have a disability. A dog can detect a seizure or migrane. It is on television occasionally. I will find a story online about this, because I am sure they are there.
__________________ Laura--loving mom of Robyn, Dexter, Sandy, Mattie, Sammy, Jake & Mollie http://www.yorkietalk.com/gallery/sh...00&ppuser=1851 |
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| | #20 | |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Quote:
They are also aware of changes in body chemistry as far as temperature, scent and things such as perspiration and heart beat to the degree that they can tell when a person is about to have a seizure, is low blood suger or nauseous or about to get a migraine headache. They are also especially in tune with their masters. How many of you have commented on how your yorkies seemed to know when you were ill or not feeling well? In this way the dogs sort of come trained except for us being trained to recognize their signals. Sometimes it's a look or a whine or a posture or you can train themto bring your medicatin when their "sense" warns them that medication is warranted. There are ongoing studies in this areas and it is quite fascinating. I would recommend individual research if you are truly interested. | |
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| | #21 |
| YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: LA
Posts: 1,568
| Since I suffer from severe migrane headaches, I would love to know exactly how to train Carter and Cooper to detect them for me before the onset. If anyone can point me to a source for information of how to do this, please let me know! I am not against people that have disabilities . . . according to the "law" as it is written, I qualify many times over. What I have a pet peeve about is people whose dogs can't detect squat and say they are a service dog. If your dog can detect a migrane before the onset then that truly is a service dog. It is a proven fact that dogs do reduce stress. Does that mean everyone can take their dog into stores, restaurants, and on airplanes without being crated?
__________________ Lisa Proud Marine MomCarter, Cooper & Crissy's Mom and Sebastian's Nana Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose! |
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| | #22 |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
| The question was "are you able to train your dog to do that?" because by everything I have read so far the dog goes thru some pretty extensive training. 6 months of it actually. Yes there have been many stories on this phenomena, but not ALL dogs will signal naturally when this is going to happen.Thats when the training might come in handy. |
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| | #23 | |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Quote:
Well, without embarassing or abridging the privacy rights of specific family members, I can answer in general terms. I have omitted the names to protect the innocent...lol I have two family members who are hearing impaired and two of my dogs are trianed to alert to specific sounds that have to do with safety primarily. For example, in addition to alerting when the door bell rings or the phone rings they are trained to alert to the sound a forklift makes when it reverses in Costco for example. Another family member used to suffer from depression and anxiety attacks and is on medication to control it. That person's dog is trained to "signal" when it is time to take the medication and also to retrieve a cell phone and personal belongings when necessary. Another family member suffers from an auto immune disease called anklosing spondylitus. This person has a fused back and all joints are fusing as this person ages. The dogs actually assist with simple things like pulling off socks, retrieving shoes, handing items to the disabled person. picking up things that are dropped, etc. Two of the dogs are in training to alert for specific medical condtions or emergency situations like pushing a button to dial 911 or barking loudly to alert another family member that they are in trouble, etc. They are all trained to perform basic tasks as well and others in addition to these, but these will give you some ideas of the possibilities. | |
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| | #24 | |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Quote:
The fact that dogs reduce stress is not, in and of itself, enough for them to qualify as service animals. However, if someone has a stress related disability, however, like high blood pressure or a chroic heart condition, for example, and the dog can be trained to do something to reduce the stress then it would qualify. | |
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| | #25 |
| ~GirlieGirls~ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,293
| My trainer said Lexi would probably need less than 3 months of training for her services. She will help pick things up and fetch, along with the fun part of puppy kisses just to make me feel better on my bad days. As for as anyone ?ing Lexi being a service dog well hell I'll just show them the med. bag I have to carry around. I would also like to say I don't think Kim is saying hey everyone print up the FAQ sheet and walk into Walmart and pretened you are disabled. I took her thread as she was just being friendly and letting people know that this is an option. I also want to say that depression is just as serious as diabetes, or any other heath issue. I would rather have my heart condition back over depression. Kim, again thank you
__________________ Tricia ~ mommy to Alexis, Victoria, & Candise![]() www.TriciaMartinPhotography.com ![]() http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosbytricia/sets/ |
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| | #26 | |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Quote:
It depends on the extent of what you want them to learn. Tricia just posted that Lexi's trainer said 3 months of training for what he is going to teach her. Tricia~ You are so welcome and I agree with what you said about depression. It is so common and it absolutely ruins lives. Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 06-20-2005 at 09:13 PM. | |
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| | #27 |
| BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Here is an excellent article on the seizure alert and the seizure assist dog and the difference. There is continuing research bring done, but this article holds that the seizure alert dog cannot actually be trained to alert before a seizure. They either do it or they don't. Seizure-Alert Dogs--Just the Facts, Hold the Media Hype Jenna Martin Senior Editor, epilepsy.com "Seizure-alert dogs, save lives". This is what the media would like the general public to believe, and while it makes for a great headline, it also makes for a grave misrepresentation of the truth.The truth is, seizure dogs can not be trained to “alert” a person of an oncoming seizure. Therefore, a seizure dog may be useful in assisting a person during or after a seizure, but is not guaranteed to be able to “alert” a person of an oncoming seizure. Seizure-alert dogs, as implied by their name, are dogs that can sense and notify their human companions of an oncoming seizure. This alerting behavior has been reported to occur several seconds to 45 minutes or more before the onset of the seizure. The dog does this by exhibiting marked changes in behavior, including close eye contact, circling, pawing, barking etc. According to Deborah Dalziel, research coordinator for a University of Florida Veterinary Medicine study on seizure alert dogs, “There is this misconception that any seizure dog can be trained to alert, which just isn’t true. A dog can cue in on minute behavioral differences, but can't be trained to alert”. She points out that there are no scientific studies to support the many theories on how dogs detect an oncoming seizure. "What we know on how dogs can alert to a seizure before it occurs is still a mystery. From a scientific standpoint, there is still so much that remains to be determined," said Dr. Basim Uthman, Associate Professor of Neurology and Neuroscience at the University of Florida College of Medicine and Brain Institute. In the 1998 study conducted by Dalziel,Uthman and colleagues, a qualitative questionnaire was completed by 63 epilepsy subjects. Of the 63 subjects, 29 owned pet dogs. Of the 29 subjects, nine reported that their dogs responded to a seizure. These dogs remained close to their human companions, either standing or lying alongside them, sometimes licking the person’s face or hands during and immediately after the seizure. Of the nine dogs reported to respond, three were reported to also alert their human companion to an impending seizure. While the numbers of the study done at the University of Florida were too small to be conclusive, they did suggest that the dogs’ alerting behavior is not breed, age or gender specific. Also, the study indicated that the dog is more likely to alert to a person with a certain type of seizure; a person who experiences migraine headaches and a person who experiences certain types of auras. Furthermore, the study indicated that the effectiveness of the seizure-alerting dog depends greatly on the ability of the human companion to recognize and appropriately respond to the dog’s alerting behavior. Megan Esherick, a trainer for Canine Partners For Life confirmed this by stating, “For some people a seizure-alert dog can really make a difference. Generally, the person needs to have the cognitive ability to notice that the dog is trying to alert them and respond accordingly. Sometimes the dog may be alerting in more subtle ways other than barking or pawing, and the person needs to be able to pick-up on that.” Some trainers and researchers believe the dog is able to alert by detecting subtle changes in human behavior, while others assert that a dog’s heightened sense of smell enables it to detect an oncoming seizure. “I think a lot of it is that people give off cues and dogs are more alert to body language,” said Mike Sapp, Chief Operating Officer of Paws With A Cause. “But there haven’t been enough scientific studies done. So who really knows why?” Sapp believes that true alerting behavior is the result of the dog and human developing a strong bond, which can only evolve over time. Seizure-Alert, Seizure-Response, Seizure-Assist: What Is the Difference? Contrary to the media's portrayal, not all seizure dogs are "alert" dogs. In fact, there are different types of seizure dogs depending on the skill set they either have or acquire through training. Whereas seizure-alert dogs assist their human companions before a seizure occurs, seizure-response or–assist dogs assist during and after a seizure. This behavior, as Dalziel points out, can be innate or trained. Seizure-assist dogs can be trained to stay close to their companions for the duration of the seizure as well as fetch medications, a telephone or caretaker. A seizure-assist dog is trained to assist the human companion, but may or may not alert. Love at First Bark When referring to service dogs, more specifically seizure dogs, the emphasis is usually placed on how well the dog can assist the human companion. Yet, the relationship between canine and human is a reciprocal one. Hence, just as the service dog must meet certain criteria so must the person selected to receive the dog. “It is very important for the person who is thinking of getting a seizure dog to understand what a significant commitment it is. They have to go through an application process at our organization where they complete a written application, submit an essay and undergo an interview by phone or in person," said Esherick. Potential seizure dog owners must also assess whether or not they are physically, emotionally and financially able to care for the dog. Dalziel asserts that, “people don’t realize the responsibility of having a service dog. It is different than owning a pet. You have to maintain training, health and a good working relationship with a vet that understands the special needs of a service dog. The success of a service dog depends as much on the human partner as it does on the dog.” Ensuring success of a seizure dog must also include a lot of playtime and exercise since these activities help in keeping the dog's stress level down. Esherick believes the most stressful event for a seizure dog is to be separated from their human companion. “The seizure dog takes its job very seriously, and when they are separated from their person they are unable to do their job, which causes a tremendous amount of anxiety.” Service Dog Trainers Currently, there are about 120 service dog training organizations in the United States. Fewer than 20 of these organizations work with seizure-assist dogs, according to Dalziel, who co-authored the booklet “Service Dogs for People with Seizure Disorders.” Training of service dogs can take 6 months to 2 years depending on the availability of appropriate dogs and the tasks they are being taught. Due to the intensive level of training required, the cost ranges from $10,000 to $25,000. At this time, the training of service dogs is not regulated so that each service dog organization has their own set of criteria for selecting clients, placing dogs and fee structures. Knowledge is Power In recent years, the seizure-alert dog has gained national media attention generating a rise in the number of people wishing to obtain such a dog for themselves or a family member who suffers from an uncontrolled seizure disorder. Sadly, some of the information has been inaccurate and has fostered unrealistic expectations of these service dogs. Through facts and empirical evidence, about seizure-alert dogs, prospective seizure-dog owners as well as the community at large, can be empowered to make reality-based decisions. |
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| | #28 |
| Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 1,181
| So Kim since there is a distinction between service versus seizure- Are your dogs trained as service dogs or seizure alert dogs?
__________________ Tara, Tino & Diva Bunny Diva Bunny: http://www.dogster.com/?141104 Rudolph Valentino: http://www.dogster.com/?76963 |
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| | #29 |
| Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wylie TX
Posts: 1,577
| Well, I did find this website http://www.cofc.edu/~huntc/service.html. I think it calls seizure dogs service dogs on there. I don't understand why you guys are picking on Kim when it just seems she is trying to help people. Keep up the good work Kim. I can see you are a kind, giving and caring person. Training a dog to do ANYTHING takes a lot of love and patience. Love at First Bark When referring to service dogs, more specifically seizure dogs,
__________________ Laura--loving mom of Robyn, Dexter, Sandy, Mattie, Sammy, Jake & Mollie http://www.yorkietalk.com/gallery/sh...00&ppuser=1851 Last edited by Laura; 06-20-2005 at 09:47 PM. |
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| | #30 |
| Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 1,181
| Laura- I was simply asking Kim a question whether or not her dogs were trained as seizure dogs or service dogs? Laura- no one is picking on anyone, There is simply a healthy debate/ a difference of opinion as to what constitutes a service dog and I personally don't understand the traning regimens, which is why I'm curious about how Kim is having her dogs trained.
__________________ Tara, Tino & Diva Bunny Diva Bunny: http://www.dogster.com/?141104 Rudolph Valentino: http://www.dogster.com/?76963 |
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