Helping those that want to breed

[Chelsie1978]

I have been a member of yorkie forums ever since january 2004 and I have always noticed this one little thing that bothers me every where I go..the fact that talking about breeding always seems to upset or anger alot of members.The reason of this thread is just to explain a few things about those of us that would like to breed and why,in order to make posting about this for others alot easier.Firstly,when we get our yorkies and realise what a great breed it is,Im sure that alot of us find the thought of having more than one appealing..infact most of us end up with two or even more Then there are those of us who feel so pasionate about the breed that we want to be part of the whole breeding world (in most cases as a HOBBY),this should be a good thing
When I got Lady I knew that one day I would want more,then we got Jess and my decidion was made,I wanted to breed and no body was going to make me change my mind.So I began to do my homework and of course ask questions online to get other peoples opinions and advice...this is where my complaint is.
When someone comes online to ask about breeding,this person is already 95% certain that he or she wants to breed their pet,all they want is awnsers to their questions and of course advice...what they dont want is to be awnserd with questions like "Why dont you leave it to the profesionals?" or "why would you do that to you female?" or "why have you not spayed her?" or "do you know that you are iresponsable?",not to mention all the negative info that people enjoy posting to put them off..etc etc.In my opinion every breeder started somewhere,even though most of them DO make it sound as if they were born 50years old with 25 years of breeding experience behind them,so we should give these new people a chance and instead of making them leave a forum and breed anyway or stay but keep the breeding questions to them selfs..we should help,advise and inform them,not scare them half to death by horror stories and 100% negative feedbacks.Breeding isnt something that only certain special beings can do..with the right advice,guidance and help we are all capable of "helping" our yorkies through a process that they have been doing for years.Having a healthy,good sized yorkie is enough because most of us are going to breed as a hobby and NOT as a full time job,we dont want to breed show quality or take the place of profesionals,we just want to breed yorkies..nothing more,nothing less.So its also not very nice to have to go back to a post where you have asked for some info and find that in order to breed you have to have a 7lb yorkie (previously tested) with steel blue/tan coat,3inch snout,small ears,short body,7 inch legs,pure silk coat etc etc (this is an example of what all this sounds like)...We are going to breed our yorkies with yorkies,not with a six legged monsters I feel sorry for those members that are seeking advice and come face to face with all of the above because these people LOVE their yorkies which is why they are inspired to breed them in the first place. I could go on and on about this all day but all I want to say is that nobody should be judged for not spaying their yorkie,for wanting to breed or even not spaying just because,as yorkie owners they are in their right to do what ever they please with their own pet and will do so with or without online help,so we could at least be helpful. Not all is totally negative in breeding,its not all c-sections,death,tube feeding,breech etc etc..we should point out the good sides too,after all,its not all bad when its still being done All Im asking is that those who have already made the decision can come online and be helped,not judged.Thats what a forum is for and even more so if the forum has a few breeders of its own that can help and guide others.Wanting to breed and asking for help is NOT iresponsable,if we were iresponsable we wouldent want any info,we´d just go ahead and do it and let nature take its course,so asking and wanting information/advice is already a sign that this person wants to learn,its a sign of RESPONSABILTY. Now Im sure Iv missed out alot of what I wanted to say..If I have I will be back to explain. I sure hope that after this "breeding" wont be a huge taboo and something that everyone (exept breeders) should keep quiet about

[Olivier]

Thank you for your post . It is very interesting . When Sandrine had her first litter of pups , I admit , I was scared by reading posts about birthing but thanks God , everything went well . Fom time to time , I have been very frustrated to read posts about helping .

[Biddy's Mom]

Thanks for saying this! I too am interested in breeding, but am a little afraid to ask questions because I am afraid that I am going to be questioned on my intentions. Believe me I LOVE my dogs & the breed and want nothing but the best for both. Also, I think the type of people that come to this site & ask questions are not the same people that are breeding with bad intentions. Thanks for putting this out there!

[diesel's mommy]

I totally agree with your post. I have often had the impression that breeding is a forbidden subject on this forum. I have no intention of breeding and am actually having my Diesel neutered next month, but I feel for those of you who come here for information and get nothing but criticism. I have never spoken up on the subject because I feel like it wasn't my place because I have no interest in breeding and would be fighting someone elses fight; however I would like to remind everyone on this forum that does breed that you all had to start somewhere whether it was an accident or a planned and your knowledge should be used to educate others and not for judgement. I have learned a lot of information on this forum about breeding, from reading different posts, but always feel bad for the person asking the questions because they end up with little information and answers to their questions and many critical remarks. I also feel like those of us who have never bred should not have negative remarks about someones interest in breeding. How can you offer advice about something that you have never experienced. We can all read books and learn about a subject but I feel personal experience is the best teacher, and believe we should all be willing to share our knowledge with each other.

WAR EAGLE!!!!!

Reagan

[Chelsie1978]

Im so glad that you all feel this way too I was just getting a little tired of people being judged for wanting to breed,for not neutering or not spaying and just wanted to speak up for them all.I KNOW what its like to be judged because of this because ever since I decided to breed Jess I have been judged a few times my self.I just wanted those who judge these people to know that we all LOVE our girls and boys too and wanting to breed doenst mean that we are iresponsable..we want to learn which is why we come into forums I just think we should help each other if we possibly can and leave out the judging After all,I think it feels alot better to know that you have helped someone that to think that you have frightened them away

[Gazou]

I find this post very interesting to read . I am new at the Yorkie world and interested to learn .

[TatumsMom]

Well said, Gina. I had Tatum spayed when I realized she wasn't going to be big enough to safely breed (according to the pros on this board) so I haven't learned much about the breeding process. I have been a bit disappointed to see some of the responses that people new to breeding have gotten. I agree that you should do a lot of research and find a mentor before jumping into something like breeding but it takes guts it seems to come here and ask for help. There are quite a few knowledgeable breeders on here and I hope they continue to share their vast knowledge and experience without scaring anyone away.

[Sidney]

Thankyou Gina.
I found these chat sites because of wanting imformation on breeding...and then realized thats not something you want to let people know about so I just read other brave people's questions. This is not something I decided I wanted to do overnight I've been interested since before I bought my first yorkie in 1991 and have been reading about it for 15 years. I'm able to stay home with my babies now and I'm hoping its all going to become a reality.

I want to thank the experienced breeders who patiently answer the questions. You have so much wisdom to share and I just "soak" it up.

[Hickey007]

I agree somewhat with what you say Chelsie. I will first say that I'm not a breeder and probably will never be, its too much work for me. And also that I have never directly commented to someone wanting help(or even in one of their threads). I think that as a yorkie forum we are here to give advice on everything. But at the same time as a yorkie forum everyone here loves yorkies, and most animals in general. People get upset (and rightfully so) whenever they here about an animal not being treated right by their standards. I think that everyone here has the best intentions of the dogs in mind whenever they answer any post. I think they feel that when a person comes to ask a question on breeding that they should already know everything and obviously have not done their research or they would already know the answer. Which isn't true, I'm sure even experienced breeders ask questions every now and then. But at the same time going into breeding you really should expect this and if all of it turns you away then maybe you weren't cut out for breeding in the first place. You have to admit that there can be complications with breeding and people should know and expect this when they start because if they do have problems they will be ready and not surprised.
I know many people that should not start breeding who have or are going to breed just because they can(they have male and female or have access to them) and these are people who haven't kept an animal for longer than 6 months(people I know personally). I have even been asked several times if I'm going to breed by people that have male dogs (people I really don't know, just met) and this really does bother me, I guess because I have no intentions to breed her, but my dog is not some little tramp that I go around selling a quickie with. That's what they make me feel like when they ask me this. But at the same token my dog didn't come from a show quality breeder and I didn't do enough research on her beforehand (I'm sure some people would say). I got my pup from a family that had a male and female and breed once in a while, every year or two, because they could. They loved their dogs and the pups they had and I felt very comfortable getting my dog from them.
I understand that you don't have to be a show breeder or have done this for ever and ever to be a good breeder. And honestly if it weren't for breeders who aren't show quality I wouldn't have been able to afford my dog. But I understand the intentions of the people who are yelling(for lack of a better word right now), they just want whats best for the dogs.

[Chelsie1978]

Courtney,I understand you too,but when are we not treating a dog right by their standards? This is one of the comments that bothers me Show breeders try and stick to the standards,infact they try and get as acurate as possible,but not all of us expect or even want show pups Iv seen yorkies that dont meet the standard and they are just as cute as the rest..I just dont understand why a yorkie has to meet the standard EXACTLY for breeders to think its ok for us to breed them.
Also,you said that some people come online to ask questions that they should already know..well all I can say is "better late than never" At least they are asking,does it matter how long it has taken them to ask? Maybe they have been wanting to ask for a while but have seen the reactions to posts on breeding and just couldent find the courage to do so This is what im getting at.If people knew that they were going to be helped and not judged,maybe they would ask before hand and not right in the middle of their dogs pregnancy.Subjects on breeding are VERY important,especially to those who have made the decision to do it,so when they find that they are not only being judged for breeding,but also for NOT asking certain questions earlier,then of course they will leave because they will feel as if no matter what they say,it will be wrong..if they ask,they are being iresponsable,and if they dont,the same.They wont leave because they arent ready,they will leave because the forum is not helping them at all

[mmyorkies]

"Having a healthy,good sized yorkie is enough because most of us are going to breed as a hobby and NOT as a full time job,we dont want to breed show quality or take the place of profesionals,we just want to breed yorkies..nothing more,nothing less.So its also not very nice to have to go back to a post where you have asked for some info and find that in order to breed you have to have a 7lb yorkie (previously tested) with steel blue/tan coat,3inch snout,small ears,short body,7 inch legs,pure silk coat etc etc (this is an example of what all this sounds like)...We are going to breed our yorkies with yorkies,not with a six legged monsters "

One thing that you overlooked in a lot of the information that is written is that when we tell you that a yorkie over 7 pounds should not be bred, that is because at least you should try to create a puppy that looks like a yorkie and not a silky. These 2 breeds are very similar, seeing as the yorkie and the Australian were the 2 main breeds used to create the silky, but the silky is a larger dog than yorkies are SUPPOSED to be, if you want a yorkie, at least use the standard size to do your breeding instead of creating dogs that will end up in a shelter because no one wants them because they are too large. I know several hobby breeders that do not breed to produce show dogs, but because they do follow the guidelines in choosing the pair that they breed, they have produced dogs that could be shown. The idea is to make sure you are making yorkies, and not some larger dogs that will end up not wanted. How many people looking for puppies do you know that want a yorkie puppy that is going to grow up to be 10, 15 or even larger in pounds? I have not had any inquires asking for a puppy that will grow big. Most want one that looks like mine or smaller. If you want to breed to produce pets, I think that is wonderful, but you still need to adhere to the breed standard of what you are going to breed. If you don't like that, then you are right, you are going to be put done for breeding. No matter what breed you chose to breed. We have plenty of puppymills and backyard breeders out there putting out yorkies that are purebred, but they don't look anything like a yorkie.

[mmyorkies]

Originally Posted by Chelsie1978
I just dont understand why a yorkie has to meet the standard EXACTLY for breeders to think its ok for us to breed them.

Because the standard is what makes them a yorkie. If you don't at least try to stay within the standard eventually you will no longer have a yorkie, but something else, when in all honesty you started out wanting yorkies. Every breed has a standard, and that is what keeps them the breed they should be.

[Chelsie1978]

Who said anything about breeding a 10lb yorkie?? This is what im trying to say,we arent stupid,we arent iresponsable and we dont want our pups to end up in shelters..infact,some of us that are starting out dont even have intentions of selling the pups (my case).I KNOW how big a yorkie should be and how big it shouldent,as I said before Iv been doing my homework for a year already.I didnt say we are going to breed 15lb yorkies and that we dont give a dam what comes out at the end as long as its a yorkie..what I meant was,we dont need show quality and shouldent be pressured into thinking that thats what we have to look for

PS:MM Yorkies,what is the exact standard to you?

[mmyorkies]

One other thing you need to remember is, the only stupid question, is the one not asked. If you are going to be intimidated by some of the replies, you just have to put your flaming suit on and stand tall. You will always get replies you don't want to hear, but if you are willing to get through them, you will also get replies from those that understand where you are coming from. I was very much like what you are describing when I got my first yorkies and fell in love with the breed. I wanted to start showing yorkies, and it is just as hard to get into the show scene as it is to breed them. With determination and not letting the negative replies get me down, I finally got there. Eventually I even decided to breed for my own show line. You have to be able to stand up to the negative and learn even from them.

[chloeandj]

Good job! Thank you for posting. I hope everyone will feel more comfortable posting about this subject. You know I completely agree with you and I just wanted to show my support.

NO it's not a top secret mission that requires years and years of training.