things that make u go Hmmmmmmmmmm - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

ssguzzy828 · 05-11-2005, 06:36 PM

I think posting about bad expeiriences with other breeders and kennels is great. I know when I started on my quest to find my yorkie I was saved a lot of heartache and expense by hearing about various expieriences that other people had. I found My puppy thru a breeder on yorkie talk whom I feel so comfortable with. I know the threat to sue is just that a threat. Actually Im glad someone had posted that thread because I had considered contacting them at one time. Had I purchased a yorkie from them I probably would have recieved a sick puppy. So I am thankful for those threads. I just think threads that are started here should stay here thats all. So im sorry if I somehow wrote the thread to sound like something against opinions.

thanks again,
sue

red98vett · 05-11-2005, 06:59 PM

I agree - we have the internet and should use it - I wish I had forums like this when I was looking for my first yorkie - I'm very glad you found a good breeder and a great yorkie...

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-11-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natalie

I love YorkieTalk and no mean, rude, angry-at-the-world person can ruin it for me. I guess when they stick around long enough (which seems to be around 10-20 posts) they realize that nothing can puncture through the wonderful circle of people on this forum and the great new members that join us everyday! So, when they realize that.. what else is there to do but leave? If you make mean comments and someone is still nice to you in return, your goal is meaningless and they leave. I am glad they do because YorkieTalk is no place for rude, obnoxious people who just want to be melodramatic.

I agree with you Natalie! I have been on other forums where they will actually ban a person without notice if they state their opinion and it is different from their's. We do have a wonderful, open-minded and supportive group who really and truly respect each other and just want to make our lives and the lives of our furbabies better. I don't agree with mean, disrespectful people because those are not just "opinions". They are hurtful and serve no beneficial purpose whatsoever. They deserve to simply be ignored and they usually go away.

Now to put on my legal advice hat, it is perfectly okay to relate "experiences" you have had or to state "in my opinion" about something. If you are truly doing this, then it is not defamation. What it is not okay to do, and what can lead to potential liability would be to simply state something that you cannot prove like, "Joe Blow Kennels is a puppymill" or this breeder "stole a picture off the website" or "Bob, the breeder is not reputable". If it turns out that you cannot prove the statement and the defamed person or business can prove otherwise, they do not even have to prove damages when it happened in writing, such as a post on a forum. It is considered "libel" and litigation could possibly occur.

I am pretty sure Fast Eddie can't be successfully sued for anything the members here post because I am pretty sure he has a notice/disclaimer that the opinions and comments expressed here are those of the members and not those of the owners/operators. He is smart to do this as it protects him. We should still be very careful that we use the IMO phrase whenever we are saying anything negative just to avoid a potential problem.

No worries, Be happy!!!

red98vett · 05-11-2005, 07:23 PM

I disagree. Tarawood posted a good thread on this but I don't know where it is - regarding my post - There are many posts about bad breeders - why would this be singled out ?

There's been countless posts about good and bad breeders and someone here nailed it on the head - if you don't want bad publicity - then don't give anyone a reason to be upset.

we are SHARING INFORMATION and discussing it on a public forum - you are making it sound like no one can say anything without 'IMO' in front of it - I don't think that is going to really make a difference - but that's JMO....

natalie · 05-11-2005, 07:35 PM

I agree, I disagree, I'm neutral, I am not opinionated, your kennel is horrible, our kennel is great, I wouldn't mind living in your kennel, you're a great breeder, you're a great breeder but I don't agree with you ...
Whatever it is, it's made this forum a great place to learn new things!

And YES, exactly.. if Mr. Brushy Creek Kennel doesn't give anyone to complain about then there wouldn't be any complaints!! Take that Mr. Brushy.

red98vett · 05-11-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natalie

I agree, I disagree, I'm neutral, I am not opinionated, your kennel is horrible, our kennel is great, I wouldn't mind living in your kennel, you're a great breeder, you're a great breeder but I don't agree with you ...
Whatever it is, it's made this forum a great place to learn new things!

And YES, exactly.. if Mr. Brushy Creek Kennel doesn't give anyone to complain about then there wouldn't be any complaints!! Take that Mr. Brushy.

lol...good point and well said - I need to shorten my posts - I tend to get wordy ....I like what you said here.

but I think he may go by Mr. SHADY also ...

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-11-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98vett

I disagree. Tarawood posted a good thread on this but I don't know where it is - regarding my post - There are many posts about bad breeders - why would this be singled out ?

There's been countless posts about good and bad breeders and someone here nailed it on the head - if you don't want bad publicity - then don't give anyone a reason to be upset.

we are SHARING INFORMATION and discussing it on a public forum - you are making it sound like no one can say anything without JMO in front of it - I don't think that is going to really make a difference - but that's JMO....

People get upset for all sorts of reasons whether they are reasonable or not. There are breeders on here who will tell you that people get upset when a puppy ends up being bigger than 5 lbs even when the breeder told them there was no way to guarantee adult size. They will get upset if the breeder raises her prices or refuses to ship a puppy or won't sell to them because they do not find their home life suitable for whatever reason. It would be great to think we can be safe from people who choose to speak in a negative way about someone or their business just by " not giving people a reason to be upset" but that is not reality, unfortunately.

I remember Tarawood's post (Thread "Who's Responsible?" 3/30/05) and I discussed it with her privately because she was not completely correct. In the case of slander, which is the oral or spoken form of defamation, damages must be proven, but in the case of libel, which is the writen form of defamation, no damages need be proven. They are "assumed" because the written word is so much more powerful than the spoken word and can do so much more widespread damage.

I am not telling anyone on here what to say and what not to say, I am simply advising that it is safer to use "in my opinion" if you really want to protect yourself when you are speaking negatively about anyone or any thing.

We should feel free to have healthy, respectful debate and discourse with differing viewpoints on issues on this forum free from fear of making defamatory comments that might unintentionally hurt someone or their business. It is easy if you just do it right. It's not difficult.

I don't believe that we have to adhere to the addage, "if you don't have sonething nice to say, don't say anything at all" but I would just say that if you have something that's not nice to say, then state that it is your experience, or it is your opinion, and it be less likely to cause a problem.

natalie · 05-11-2005, 07:54 PM

A lot of threads I've been going to, I see the topic of free speech and opinions being debated (regardless of what the thread name is! lol). What's going on here guyssss?

PS. Kim, your PM box is full! lol

red98vett · 05-11-2005, 07:56 PM

I sure don't know - I thought all that was covered earlier.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-11-2005, 08:07 PM

Natalie:

Say it with me

"I pledge allegiance to Yorkie Talk and to the yorkies for which it stands."

We should write a yorkie constitution or Yorkie Bill of Rights!!

LvMyYorki · 05-11-2005, 08:21 PM

IMO.... its sad that lately so much legal advice has to be given/posted on a YORKIE FORUM. There should be more of a respect for privacy that "what happens here, stays here." I have been coming to the yorkie forums since I got a Yorkie almost a year ago and have never seen threads like these recently. And I am not claiming to be an angel, I got upset over a thread the other night, so I reg'd to post and I did ...but I am very passionate about not defending breeding practices that I feel are unscrupulous and that is where it started and I admit, it got way out of hand and personal and I apologize for that. But it just isnt even funny to joke about needing to discuss what libel is and what slander is! I am no regular poster, but I can see why people that come here to learn something about yorkies wouldn't want to stick around after reading posts like this.... It should just be dropped! Its a dog forum, there shouldnt need to be a YT constitution or anything remotely close. People should be able to feel safe enough to post what their thoughts and experiences are without needing to "IMO" or "JMO" it or worrying whether it violates the YT Pledge. I'm sure those terms were posted in a joking manner, but there is still an undertone that just isn't appropriate on a dog forum.

natalie · 05-11-2005, 08:32 PM

I know that a selected few have personal problems with a certain member on this board because of past experiences with her, but please please please please stop bringing up things that don't need to be brought up! Like everyone says, what happens there stays there and that should pertain to personal problems as well.
I hope you guys agree because, personally, I'm tired of seeing posts aimed towards her.

If you want to read other members threads and delve in the information than it's all up to you. However, if you don't find those post useful or if you are sickened by the post (i.e. the Greenies thread) than noone is shoving your face into it and forcing you to read it. Simply skip it and move on. People can share whatever information they want to and you really cannot stop them from doing so by complaining that they're posting it. It's just up to you to read it or not. Just because it's there, you read it and you don't like it/have no use for it doesn't mean that person shouldn't post it because the person that reads it after you might find it useful.

I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say!
I don't think this is yet ANOTHER controversial thread, let's try not to make it one you guys. Please!

LvMyYorki · 05-11-2005, 08:43 PM

I'm lost now... I thought this thread had to do with Natalie & I getting into an argument the other night, which is why I just posted what I did. I think maybe I am misunderstanding something that has to do with someone else....which is fine with me! I guess I missed the part about something else being directed at someone else???
As far as the greenies thing... I feel like Britney Spears here...."Oops! I did it again!" B/c I just posted some advice on the Greenies. I didnt know that was a bad subject sorry! I don't think I offended anyone one that one though!

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-11-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LvMyYorki

Its a dog forum, there shouldnt need to be a YT constitution or anything remotely close. People should be able to feel safe enough to post what their thoughts and experiences are without needing to "IMO" or "JMO" it or worrying whether it violates the YT Pledge.

Tara:

I was trying to lighten things up. Why don't you tell us about your yorkies?

LvMyYorki · 05-11-2005, 08:45 PM

Don't tell me there is a libel/slander worry about the greenies too if you decided not to give them anymore b/c of the warning that was posted here??? Please tell me this is not for real? How can anyone share experiences anymore if they are worried abt getting sued???

05-11-2005, 06:59 PM	#32
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	I agree - we have the internet and should use it - I wish I had forums like this when I was looking for my first yorkie - I'm very glad you found a good breeder and a great yorkie... __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

05-11-2005, 07:23 PM	#34
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	I disagree. Tarawood posted a good thread on this but I don't know where it is - regarding my post - There are many posts about bad breeders - why would this be singled out ? There's been countless posts about good and bad breeders and someone here nailed it on the head - if you don't want bad publicity - then don't give anyone a reason to be upset. we are SHARING INFORMATION and discussing it on a public forum - you are making it sound like no one can say anything without 'IMO' in front of it - I don't think that is going to really make a difference - but that's JMO.... __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE! Last edited by red98vett; 05-11-2005 at 07:31 PM.

05-11-2005, 07:56 PM	#39
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	I sure don't know - I thought all that was covered earlier. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

05-11-2005, 08:07 PM	#40
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Natalie: Say it with me "I pledge allegiance to Yorkie Talk and to the yorkies for which it stands." We should write a yorkie constitution or Yorkie Bill of Rights!! Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 05-11-2005 at 08:41 PM.

05-11-2005, 06:36 PM	#31
ssguzzy828 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: south suburbs of illinois Posts: 734	I think posting about bad expeiriences with other breeders and kennels is great. I know when I started on my quest to find my yorkie I was saved a lot of heartache and expense by hearing about various expieriences that other people had. I found My puppy thru a breeder on yorkie talk whom I feel so comfortable with. I know the threat to sue is just that a threat. Actually Im glad someone had posted that thread because I had considered contacting them at one time. Had I purchased a yorkie from them I probably would have recieved a sick puppy. So I am thankful for those threads. I just think threads that are started here should stay here thats all. So im sorry if I somehow wrote the thread to sound like something against opinions. thanks again, sue

05-11-2005, 07:35 PM	#35
natalie Owned by Fred Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,352	I agree, I disagree, I'm neutral, I am not opinionated, your kennel is horrible, our kennel is great, I wouldn't mind living in your kennel, you're a great breeder, you're a great breeder but I don't agree with you ... Whatever it is, it's made this forum a great place to learn new things! And YES, exactly.. if Mr. Brushy Creek Kennel doesn't give anyone to complain about then there wouldn't be any complaints!! Take that Mr. Brushy.

05-11-2005, 07:54 PM	#38
natalie Owned by Fred Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,352	A lot of threads I've been going to, I see the topic of free speech and opinions being debated (regardless of what the thread name is! lol). What's going on here guyssss? PS. Kim, your PM box is full! lol

05-11-2005, 08:21 PM	#41
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	IMO.... its sad that lately so much legal advice has to be given/posted on a YORKIE FORUM. There should be more of a respect for privacy that "what happens here, stays here." I have been coming to the yorkie forums since I got a Yorkie almost a year ago and have never seen threads like these recently. And I am not claiming to be an angel, I got upset over a thread the other night, so I reg'd to post and I did ...but I am very passionate about not defending breeding practices that I feel are unscrupulous and that is where it started and I admit, it got way out of hand and personal and I apologize for that. But it just isnt even funny to joke about needing to discuss what libel is and what slander is! I am no regular poster, but I can see why people that come here to learn something about yorkies wouldn't want to stick around after reading posts like this.... It should just be dropped! Its a dog forum, there shouldnt need to be a YT constitution or anything remotely close. People should be able to feel safe enough to post what their thoughts and experiences are without needing to "IMO" or "JMO" it or worrying whether it violates the YT Pledge. I'm sure those terms were posted in a joking manner, but there is still an undertone that just isn't appropriate on a dog forum.

05-11-2005, 08:32 PM	#42
natalie Owned by Fred Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,352	I know that a selected few have personal problems with a certain member on this board because of past experiences with her, but please please please please stop bringing up things that don't need to be brought up! Like everyone says, what happens there stays there and that should pertain to personal problems as well. I hope you guys agree because, personally, I'm tired of seeing posts aimed towards her. If you want to read other members threads and delve in the information than it's all up to you. However, if you don't find those post useful or if you are sickened by the post (i.e. the Greenies thread) than noone is shoving your face into it and forcing you to read it. Simply skip it and move on. People can share whatever information they want to and you really cannot stop them from doing so by complaining that they're posting it. It's just up to you to read it or not. Just because it's there, you read it and you don't like it/have no use for it doesn't mean that person shouldn't post it because the person that reads it after you might find it useful. I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say! I don't think this is yet ANOTHER controversial thread, let's try not to make it one you guys. Please!

05-11-2005, 08:43 PM	#43
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	I'm lost now... I thought this thread had to do with Natalie & I getting into an argument the other night, which is why I just posted what I did. I think maybe I am misunderstanding something that has to do with someone else....which is fine with me! I guess I missed the part about something else being directed at someone else??? As far as the greenies thing... I feel like Britney Spears here...."Oops! I did it again!" B/c I just posted some advice on the Greenies. I didnt know that was a bad subject sorry! I don't think I offended anyone one that one though!

05-11-2005, 08:45 PM	#45
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	Don't tell me there is a libel/slander worry about the greenies too if you decided not to give them anymore b/c of the warning that was posted here??? Please tell me this is not for real? How can anyone share experiences anymore if they are worried abt getting sued???