I have a Puppy Weight question?

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by chachi

I never told Heather how she can breed. I said I dont agree with her breeding practices and I dont. When I first made My comment I had no idea the breeder was a yorkietalk member either

You did write:
"That is a very unretrable breeder (sic) to breed a mom that small and then to even breed her to a male who is bigger than the female"

"Any ethcal (sic) breeder would tell you that you dont (sic) breed females that small and you you (sic) dont (sic) breed with a larger male. I feel sorry for your female"

"5 lbs is an accetable (sic) size to breed but you never breed to a larger male no matter what size they are."

We all have our own opinions and even the expert breeders have differing opinions -- but they are just opinions. It causes problems when people issue edicts like only one opinion could possibly be right. Some things are set -- like the breed standard -- but the minimum weight to breed, the maximum differential in sire and dam -- those things are not set in stone. One reason they are not set in stone is that it does depend on a case by case basis. Bone structure is more important than actual weight and that is so subjective it would be difficult to put into words. But a vet should be able to examine a 3.5 to 4 pound female and decide if she is capable of carrying a healthy litter to term. The mother of my little Sadie is 4 pounds and has delivered 3 healthy litters.

I have also read some interesting info on breeding to CORRECT problems that might be in a line. I bet that would open a can of worms here. It is along the lines of the post about breeding a red leg into her program to get the rich color (I think that is the quality that was enhanced -- I might have that wrong). But sometimes two wrongs can make a right. I think this would have to be limited to a breeder that was really into genetics and KNEW what he/she was doing. But I found it interesting.

You have some very defined ideas about breeding, maybe you have decided that from your experience as a breeder. Others may have other experiences and come to different conclusions. Does not mean anyone is wrong just that all are entitled to their own opinions. My opinions are not even matured yet as I am just learning and have not bred Yorkies yet. There is so much to read and learn! Since it does not all agree, I will have to pick through and make the best decisions I can and then adjust as I have experience of my own.

Best to all!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

You did write:
"That is a very unretrable breeder (sic) to breed a mom that small and then to even breed her to a male who is bigger than the female"

"Any ethcal (sic) breeder would tell you that you dont (sic) breed females that small and you you (sic) dont (sic) breed with a larger male. I feel sorry for your female"

"5 lbs is an accetable (sic) size to breed but you never breed to a larger male no matter what size they are."

We all have our own opinions and even the expert breeders have differing opinions -- but they are just opinions. It causes problems when people issue edicts like only one opinion could possibly be right. Some things are set -- like the breed standard -- but the minimum weight to breed, the maximum differential in sire and dam -- those things are not set in stone. One reason they are not set in stone is that it does depend on a case by case basis. Bone structure is more important than actual weight and that is so subjective it would be difficult to put into words. But a vet should be able to examine a 3.5 to 4 pound female and decide if she is capable of carrying a healthy litter to term. The mother of my little Sadie is 4 pounds and has delivered 3 healthy litters.

I have also read some interesting info on breeding to CORRECT problems that might be in a line. I bet that would open a can of worms here. It is along the lines of the post about breeding a red leg into her program to get the rich color (I think that is the quality that was enhanced -- I might have that wrong). But sometimes two wrongs can make a right. I think this would have to be limited to a breeder that was really into genetics and KNEW what he/she was doing. But I found it interesting.

You have some very defined ideas about breeding, maybe you have decided that from your experience as a breeder. Others may have other experiences and come to different conclusions. Does not mean anyone is wrong just that all are entitled to their own opinions. My opinions are not even matured yet as I am just learning and have not bred Yorkies yet. There is so much to read and learn! Since it does not all agree, I will have to pick through and make the best decisions I can and then adjust as I have experience of my own.

Best to all!

I said 5 lbs was an accetable size to breed because you asked me what size I thought was okay to breed. All I have said toward Heather is I dont agree with her breeding practices and I dont so why should I say otherwise

[heatherw610]

Originally Posted by chachi

I said 5 lbs was an accetable size to breed because you asked me what size I thought was okay to breed. All I have said toward Heather is I dont agree with her breeding practices and I dont so why should I say otherwise

Yes, that is what you said along with a few other things but what I am saying is the topic of this thread was not "Chachi and whoever else come in and bash Heather for breeding a 4 pound dog". It was simply a size question and you turned it into a debate.

[chachi]

The only thing I said about you is that you are an unreputable breeder and that was before I even knew the breeder was you. I have went back and checked the posts and you have been the one doing the bashing Heather. You are also the one that turned this into a debate. People give opinions about breeders all the time on here

[heatherw610]

Originally Posted by chachi

The only thing I said about you is that you are an unreputable breeder and that was before I even knew the breeder was you. I have went back and checked the posts and you have been the one doing the bashing Heather. You are also the one that turned this into a debate. People give opinions about breeders all the time on here

Once again the topic was about the size a puppy would be not you mouthing about me being "unreputable". And you dont KNOW me therefore you cannot say what I am or am not. I dont call myself a 'breeder' either. Judging by some of the posts in this forum its not a title I ever want to have.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by chachi

The only thing I said about you is that you are an unreputable breeder...

WOW -- Chachi that is over the line, girl. Read the rules -- they are on a sticky titled:
YorkieTalk Rules & Guidelines - PLEASE READ!
1. Please be civil and do not personally attack anyone or their opinions.
7. Personal attacks are simply not acceptable here and we have a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks.

You can say you don't agree and people can present alternate opinions but to say someone is unreputable is extremely harsh!!! This is unbelievable!!

[chachi]

What I said is that she was an unreputable breeder and I said it before I knew she was the breeder so I never bashed her because when I said it I didnt even know the breeder was her so dont read the rules to me because I didnt break any. If anything I am the one who has been bashed

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by chachi

If anything I am the one who has been bashed

Where? I did not see one derogatory thing said in this thread about you personally. One should not confuse disagreeing with someone's statements as a personal attack -- but calling someone names and insulting their integrity and ethics most certainly IS. I do not think Heather deserved that.

Are you just having a bad time? I am just surprised by your continued pugnacity in this thread. But.... still wishing you a Very Merry Christmas!

[heatherw610]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

One should not confuse disagreeing with someone's statements as a personal attack -- but calling someone names and insulting their integrity and ethics most certainly IS. I do not think Heather deserved that.

Thank you!

There are things here that I dont agree with but I would not personally attack someone for it and give them my advice unless they ASKED me to. My female had a completely healthy pregnancy and a smooth delivery of 4 puppies. Yes, I had one pass 13 days later but the vet confirmed he had a heart defect and my other 3 are now 5 weeks old and healthy and happy as is the mommy. If you are CONCERNED that is one thing, but being ugly about it is another.

[chachi]

I never called Heather one name since I knew she was the breeder in question I have only said I dont agree with her breeding practices. I have every right to say that. I said the breeder that Kodak mentioned was an unreutable breeder. That was said before Heather posted that she was the breeder. This is the last time I am posting because I dont have to defend myself I know what I said. Merry Christmas to you too