Purebreds?

[karmaboomer]

Does anyone know how to check if your dog is REALLY purebred like the breeder says? My boy has papers from out-of-country, and I really don't trust the breeder. As his hair is growing in, it is more and more curly which makes me think he is part poodle or something, but we paid a PUREBRED price. Let me know if anyone knows how to find out for sure!!!

[Higgin's Mom]

Aside from very expensive DNA tests, I don't think there is a way to know for sure. However, at this young age, my Higgins hair was kind of curly, too. And now it's flat and straight like it's supposed to be. So I would wait until he loses his puppy coat. He sure looks purebred to me in his closeup picture.

But ya know what? An outcross can be a JOY! I have a dachshund/poodle outcross in Pogo and he has been the healthiest most wonderful companion for 13 years.

But I still think your Boomer is probably a purebred Yorkie. Just my 2 cents.

[fasteddie]

What papers do you have? I know with AKC you can trace it pretty well, but I'm not sure if foreign kennel clubs have similar lineage of your puppy or not.

[karmaboomer]

It's a foreign kennel club, I'll have to look up the name to tell you - I don't personally care if he is, I love him JUST the same, but I want to yell at the breeder.....I have written him so many times to express my dissatisfaction with him. I don't want him deceiving anyone else into paying what we did for very sick puppies.....thank you for the help!

I think it is CBKC ?

[gwen]

you took a huge risk in buying from a foreign breeder, which means any type of guarantee or contract is practically meaningless, the papers that say he is a purebred have no standing. contracts are upheld by the law, but who's going to defend the law when they're in another country? especially on something like a puppy, and the sad thing is this breeder knows this and will probably continue to use it to his advantage. it's a shame and as mad as this person may have made you there's nothing you could do about it. you may never be able to know if your pup really is a purebred, but sadly that's what comes with buying from a breeder you can't trust.
i'm sorry you had to deal with this breeder, but the biggest and most important thing is that you love your baby! i've never seen photos of him so i couldn't give an honest opinion of whether or not i think he is, but that's just my opinion based on what i've read from this thread so far.
i'm new here by the way, so hi everyone

[mishasmom]

Gabby is about 14 weeks and her hair has some curl to it! But I know that she is purebred, so I agree with higgins mom, just give it some time. He looks purebred to me too. I have a shipoo and she is awesome, but I know what you mean about paying a purebred price, people should give you what you pay for. It seems that the yorkiepoos that I have seen have VERY curly hair and are not at all the full yorkie colors, and most of the time their ears don't stand as well, and their noses are longer. As they get older I think that you will definitely be able to tell. At www.mixedbreedpups.com you can see pics of all types of mixed breed puppies and they have adult pics as well. I hope that all of this rambling helped. Oh and look at the price of these puppies too.

[darish]

As I wrote in my own previous thread, there are quite a few bad breeders out there. I ended up paying a lot for Rexi and am upset that the lady who claimed was the breeder ended up being just a broker which I found out from the papers she mailed me later after I brought Rexi home. The way I look at it is Rexi is part of the family now. That is how I hope you feel about your puppy. The issue is taking down these disgusting, sad useless people who trade Yorkies like merchandise and lie lie and lie to first time buyers. If you find out you were lied to, show no mercy and do whatever you can to take that breeder down. It is the principle here that matters. Your puppy was destined to be with you and you should love him/her unconditionally. He doesn't know if he is a purebred or mix. He just loves his owner unconditionally.

[karmaboomer]

Absolutely. I just want to do whatever I can to make sure that other puppies don't get mistreated and that other misinformed owners like myself don't end up with the heartbreak that we have gone through trying to get Boomer healthy. Thanks for all the responses everyone =)

[Higgin's Mom]

If you have been victimized by an unscrupulous breeder, I say post that breeder's name here and on every message forum you can. Be SURE that you have your facts straight so that you are not open to libel charges. Now then, I will begin this with Higgin's story:

We desperately wanted a Yorkie but simply could not think of paying over $500 for a pup on our retirement budget. So we started looking. We saw some pretty sad puppymill pups, and were told about breeders to avoid. We insisted on seeing the puppy in his home/breeder environment and seeing and handling the parents. We eventually saw an ad in an online local newspaper advertising a male and female pup in Brooksville, Florida, for $450, no papers.
I called and we went to Brooksville right away. The breeder was a German gentleman in his mid 70s who said he and his wife had bred chihuahuas and yorkies for years. He said they were retiring from the business and that they didn't want to be bothered with AKC, registration, etc. He was very nice. Their home was lovely. Their side yard had about 10 chihuahuas in a scrupulously clean fenced in area, having a ball playing. They looked happy, healthy, shiny, and were well socialized. The two Yorkies were in a human baby playpen and were, of course, adorable. We had come for a female, but it was the little male that was most interested in us. I asked to see the mother and father. I am sure that I saw the REAL mom because she and the pups obviously knew each other. The mother was about 10 pounds (which he had told me on the phone earlier), and was the sweetest dog! Very pretty, but mostly golden in color and of course, oversized. She was TEN years old, which upset me. That's just too old to keep breeding a dog. And Mr. Galda said that she used to have 7 or 8 in a litter, but only had 2 this time, so he thought he probably wouldn't breed her again. She looked groomed, shiny, and very healthy. The father was somewhat more skittish. He weighed about 5-6 pounds and wasn't interested in being social, though he never barked or seemed aggressive in any way. He loved it when I picked him up and cuddled him. Both parents "felt" and looked healthy. They smelled good, and clean. So we forked over the money, and all in all had a nice visit.

Now then, you will see the breeders' names on the AKC nono list: Galda. They have been banned for 10 years. So they have certainly been unscrupulous at some time. However, while they certainly didn't tell us they have been banned by the AKC, they were not misrepresenting their puppies as registered, teacup, or anything special, and they were selling them at a fair price for "just pets." We received the required Florida vet certificate stating which puppy shots had been given, that the pup had been wormed, and that he had one undescended testicle (which did descend after about 2 months).

Higgin's poops were good and all went well for about 2 weeks when he started to gag a bit, and got diarrhea. OFF TO THE VET! It proved to be tonsilitis and coccids that were the problems. A dose of antibiotics had him right in no time. I truly don't blame the breeder for these problems since he was in really good shape when we got him and stayed that way for two weeks. The vet assured me they are just common puppy problems and had us come back every week for 3 weeks to follow up on Higgins (at $8 per follow up!, don't you love it?)

I am not proud of supporting a puppymill breeder. Like you, I really wanted a Yorkie. But at least I knew what I was getting and got the best I could afford and I knew what to look for and what the BIG red flags were. I think Mr. Galda was very fair with me. Don't get me wrong, $450 is a LOT of money for an unregistered dog, but in today's Yorkie market, it's a bargain for a healthy pup.

Interestingly, compared to the Breed Standard, Higgins doesn't come off too badly. He is oversize (thank you, mama) at a tad over 7 pounds, but otherwise is a pretty good looking kid! And he has an adorable personality! A devil in angel's clothing.........

Chances are 99% that if you bought your puppy in a pet store, you have a true puppymill puppy and you are taking a chance on some real health problems. I can guarantee that you overpaid for your pup from a pet store! Small dogs, particularly REALLY small dogs, are the fashion. And where there is demand, there is big money involved. And there is the problem.

And beware of your own motives....Thinking it might be nice to have "just one litter" and recoup some of the big bucks you paid? And have lots of fun, too? Tempting. Well, I don't breed because I know something about dog breeding and I don't know any RICH, responsible breeders! It is time consuming WORK breeding healthy pups, and it COSTS BIG BUCKS to do it well and offer healthy puppies.

Thanks for letting me tell our story.

[karmaboomer]

Boomer's Story: (so far)

We had already picked up our female in the suburbs of New York (I am from Massachusetts) and we headed to NYC to see the male advertised on yorkshirepups.com.

You will see that we basically ignored all of the red flags, since we were first-time buyers and really didn't know what to look for.

We got let into the guy's apartment, and it was just him living there with these puppies (6 at the time I think). They were all gated into his pantry/kitchen, which was really small, and has no toys or anything. They were all crying and whining as we got into the kitchen, biting our toes and crawling all over us and crying. Not exactly happy puppies.

Boomer was the biggest one of all of them, the only male. When we held him, he was SO excited and did not calm down. He kept biting and clawing and licking. He looked clean, though his coat was really long and not groomed, and we did check his bite, which was fine.

We were given a CBKC registration for him, but I can't even read what it says since it is not in English, and we were given a vet document that said he had a physical and shots at 2 weeks old. The document gave no ID of what vet he had used or anyone had used for him.

There were no parents on site, and he said at one point that he was buying them from someone else. They were advertised as teacups, though he admitted they were getting to be about 6 pounds and his other customers were complaining about it. For that reason, he sold him to us for 900 instead of 1000. We paid 1000 for our girl Karma.

He showed us what he had been feeding them: Dry kibble mixed with yogurt. One spoonful each, twice a day. We got him home, and the diarrhea started. That was the coccidia. Right after that came the ringworm. Our girl has maintained perfect health, however. The breeder says his health guarantee is "for one year" but makes no other clarifications or claims. At the time when the puppy was brought to the ER with a glucose of 28, he told us we should drive the puppy back out to NYC to get treated by his vet......a 5 hour drive for us.

He denies the conditions are as bad as we saw, and claims to give his puppies tons of love and attention. When we got Boomer home and gave him a bath, his claws were curled around his feet because they were so long, he had crusty discharge built up around his eyes, and he had poop matted into his anal area from having never been cleaned. We had to cut all of it out. The vet that we brought him to for a checkup said he seemed mostly healthy but extremely underweight, and prescribed A/D plus a supplement to try to get his weight up.

Now we have him at home, and he is much better socialized and happy. I am not concerned at all for myself about whether or not Boomer is purebred. We will not breed them. I love him just the same whether he is a mix or not, and I do not believe there is a price I could put on him. There is nothing anyone could give me to let him go from my life.

I do, however, want to spread the word about being underinformed when buying a puppy and spread the word about looking for those red flags, because too many people, like me, get tricked. I look on his site now and all of Boomer's littermates (hey maybe they aren't even his littermates, who knows) have been sold as well. My heart goes out to those people who have probably had to deal with the same exact issues I have over this past month.

Thanks for listening to my story =)

I definitely am thrilled I got Boomer, and got the oppurtunity to help him and raise him and have his company in my life.

Thanks to everyone for your help. I'm going to try to contact the CBKC if I can find something in English, to trace his lineage by his numbers or something. I'll keep you posted. If there is anywhere I can report this breeder (or reseller, I should say) please let me know.

[Higgin's Mom]

Here is the link to the CBKC website: It is a Brazilian Kennel Club. Makes me wonder if Boomer was imported from a Brazilian puppymill.

http://www.cbkc.org/

Since it is all in Portugese, you may be in luck more than you think......The Fall River, MA, area and all of RI has a HUGE Portugese population! Perhaps you could ask for translation help from someone in a Portugese neighborhood or business? Or, better yet, go to the Portugese Consulate in Boston. I bet there is one. And they will be happy to bring up the site and translate it for you. I'll bet they would be interested to know about your plight, too. Keep us posted.

The toughest thing about all these puppymill puppies is that I want to RESCUE them all from their misery! That's why I feel guilty about ultimately buying from a questionable breeder. When we were looking, I felt sooooo bad for some of the puppies I saw that I just cried when we got in the car. I DID tell two of these breeders that they were asking outrageous prices for unhealthy puppies.

[sngglz]

That is just so bad that this has happen to yall. I am so glad my breeder was so wonderful. I could never breed my dog because you never know who you are selling your dog to I would not want a dog go to bad people like them. I hope someday they can stop people like that.

[bettyeanne]

I found out "the hard way" about bad breeders over twenty years ago! I was a really busy older single Mom and my pediatrician decided that a pet would be good for my Amanda and would really help her to understand the concept of "adoption". His theory ... take her to see the puppy with her doggy Mom and explain that when we took the baby home that she would now be "Mom" and would love and care for the puppy! I held a very responsible position as Administrative Assistant for a state funded EMS Educational facility and that, coupled with the fact that my "world" revolved around Amanda, gave me very little time for anything else! My young secretary [who was also my friend] was the most enthusiastic dog lover I have ever met and jumped right on the "hunt for the perfect baby" for Amanda!! I was just simply too busy to "sweat the small stuff" so I left the search entirely up to her. She stayed on the phone for weeks searching from Birmingham to Atlanta! She burst into my office one afternoon so excited! "I found it, I found it ... but we have to go now ... they wouldn't hold the puppy and they close at 5 ... I'll drive!!" she said! We were in her car and halfway to the school to pick up Amanda before I knew where we were going and "what" she had found! The "where" was a pet shop on the other side of Birmingham and the "what" was a "teacup Poodle" ... yeah, right!! The mother of the puppy was there ... very pretty dog ... but the baby?? That was the most beautiful few ounces of white fur I have ever seen! She was sooo tiny [and supposed to be 8 weeks old!] we all three just fell madly in love with her! We were so excited and soon were on the way home with a carload of baby things and the little furball. I realized weeks later that it was odd that all I had in the way of "papers" was a receipt on which was scrawled "poodle pup"!! The owner said she didn't have the papers back on the litter registration from AKC and she would mail it to me. I left all the "follow up" to my friend and she made the vet appointment and we took Nicole for a checkup .... the vet just fell in love with her too. She had a small hernia and we waited to fix that until she was spayed at 6 months. Armed with our shot schedule and everything else ... including a playpen where we had to raise her because she was sooo tiny ... we began the task of spoiling her rotton. And she began to grow!!! Within a short time I noticed she was REALLY growing! I took her to the vet and told him "I swear, there's a St. Bernard in there!! He looked her over and proclaimed her to be pretty regular but not teacup nor even tiny! I was furious ... he was clutching her up against his beard and stepped back saying "But, we are ALL attached to her!" I said "Well, it's obvious that ONE of us is!!" I couldn't have parted with her for anything ... but I was just soooo mad, knowing I had been lied to about the dog! When I got home I called my secretary and told her what I learned from the vet ... I told her ... you got me into this mess so you get to the bottom of it and get those papers ... I just wanted to get the details of what had happened. Really long story short ... the woman at the pet shop wasn't the owner ... she was an employee who was caught selling her own dogs in the owners absence!! She was fired and we were never able to find her ... the real owner profusely apoligized and ... we loved our 14 lb. "teacup" Nicole for 13 years!! I still grieve for her even six years after her death! That's the reason we searched long and hard before making the decision to buy Toto! I spent years telling my husband "NO! I will never get so attached to another one as long as I live!!" Moral to story ... NEVER say NEVER!!!