Advice Please - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

YorkieRose · 09-29-2006, 05:41 PM

The fact he is not eating is a big problem that can lead to death so fast..it could be because he is too small to leave just yet or it could be a serious problem...let the breeder assume the vet bills and stess of a pup like this, that is what we are suppose to do for pur puppies, NOT the pet owner.
There is no greater heart break and stress then dealing with a sick puppy.

Liver shunt has no one set of symtoms...it can be mild to fatal. They start by not eating and growing as a rule...then the other problems can start..the amount of food a one pound pup requires is not much, but he should be active and playing no matter how small he is..good luck

Chrissy0277 · 09-29-2006, 05:54 PM

http://livershunt.org/

Click on sucess stories on the bottom and then when that page opens scroll down to the bottom success stories page 4 read Lacy's story. Her first symptoms were not eating, hypoglycemia, no energy..

Im just worried now that this breeder isnt going to do the testing, its this persons responsiblity to make this puppy better.
If your going to take him, that group helps fund the LS surgery for those who need financial help. I just want you to know there is help out there.

Chrissy0277 · 09-29-2006, 06:06 PM

With all this negative talk about livershunt.. I do want to say something positive.. If he is diagnosed with livershunt its not a death sentance, this is fixable with surgery.
If you want to learn more about LS and speak with others who have dogs who had LS or dogs with MVD (microvascular dysplasia, many shunts inside the liver, which isnt fixable but can be controlled with proper diet and meds) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/
I belong to this group and dont have any dogs with liver problems, Im just there to learn and while in the process met a group of wonderful people

Willis&Cassie · 09-30-2006, 06:31 AM

My Willis & Cassie both had liver shunt surgery. We have spent well over $15,000 in the last two years on their health. We own four Yorkshire Terriers. Purchasing a "new family member" doesn't stop after the contract is signed. It is a lifelong commitment. If this baby does have liver shunt, he is going to need a family that loves and cares about him and his needs. It sounds to me like his breeder may have had problems before and just over looked them. Of course, I don't know that for sure. If you want to learn everything you can about liver shunt / MVD, please, please go to this site and join. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/
I hope and pray that this baby gets the help he needs before it's too late. The first step is a blood bile acid test, a low protein diet, and lactulose. Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharong

Hi Ladies.

I have checked the information on liver shunt myself and sadly to say, I think he fits the description.

I asked my vet about it after I had him there for the hypoglycemia and she seemed to not be worried about it at all. I mentioned it again when I called her on Wednesday. She again, did not seem to be concerned.

I have also mentioned it to the breeder a couple of times and she said he did not have the symptoms. She quoted some of them like the seizures and rubbing his head against things so I thought she at least knew what she was talking about. She really seems to know her dogs and yorkies in general.

Does anyone know how much this test costs approximately. Like I said, we have already spent three hundred dollars for the hypoglycemia visit and may end up not getting the puppy. Don't want to sound cheap but that's money that could have been spent towards another puppy if you look at it one way. I thought for sure she would have done this test on her own but I really don't think she's going to. She still just thinks that he just needs a little more time. She told me today that he still has a bit of a soft spot on his head.

Would the liver shunt make him not eat anything at all and I mean not a thing.?

Thanks again ladies.

Willis&Cassie · 09-30-2006, 07:14 AM

Even if you decide not to keep the puppy, please speak to the breeder about having the puppy bile acid tested. Regardless if you keep the pup or not, please join our group.....and have your breeder join, too. Even if liver shunt is ruled out, every breeder should educate themselves on this disease. Our group has extremely valuable information and caring members.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/

sharong · 09-30-2006, 07:21 AM

Hi. Thanks for the info.

As I said, I don't know what the breeder is going to do. I mentioned it a couple/few times and she said that he did not have the symptoms. She said that she has one now that is 2 years old and acted the same way. He had been sold and brought back because he didn't want to eat, etc. He was very happy just to be back with his mother. She says that he still sleeps with his mom at this age.

What did your puppies act like before they were diagnosed? This one simply turns his nose at every conceivable piece of food -- no matter what it is. He was a tad playful the first day we got him. But, after that, he really didn't play much at all.

The breeder says its because he's still so small and she thinks the soft spot on his head still hasn't fully closed. There were only two puppies in the litter. He was the smaller of the two. She thinks that has a lot to do with it.

He has been back with his mom for a week now and still is not eating. She says that he's much more playful but I'm not there to see it of course. He's living on the nutrical.

My husband says to just get our money back and she says that she'll do that. She also has another litter due for Christmas and we can have a pick of that one.

I think that even if he starts eating in the three weeks that we'll be gone, I'll still be afraid to have him. I think I'll always worry too much about him. I have done nothing but fret over this and I really shouldn't have to. Again, it's my head telling me one thing and my heart telling me another.

I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion not to take him at all. But, I don't know for sure. I told my husband that he needs to be the one to take charge and give the answer since I can't do it.

Thanks again.

YorkieRose · 09-30-2006, 07:41 AM

Now you have brought up another problem..the soft spot. It is not unusal for tinies to have them..BUT there is an acceptable size and unacceptable size for the pet buyer to deal with...
He may be perfectly fine, but this is one reason a tiny such as him should not be sold until around 5 to 6 months..by then the breeder pretty well knows all is well...why give someone a pack of heartaches?

sharong · 09-30-2006, 07:50 AM

I had never thought of a soft spot in a puppy to tell the truth.

She did mention that in talking to my husband the other day and then mentioned it to me yesterday when talking. But, she didn't seem to be too concerned.

I would not think that that would have anything to do with the other symptoms, would it?

I have been reading and reading on the liver shunt symptoms, diagnosis, etc. I have convinced myself now that that is what is wrong with him. He just seems to fit all the symptoms. It is heartbreaking.

Even if I got him and he ate and started acting like a puppy; I wonder if I would ever feel fully comfortable.

Just so confusing......

artie merlino · 09-30-2006, 04:42 PM

It sounds like your baby is just too young to leave his Mother, IMO the Breeder should keep him until he is at least 12 or even 15 weeks!
I bought Artie off of the Internet and he was 20 weeks old by the time I received him b/c he was sold/transfered 2 times before I had purchased him, for whatever reason or maybe he was returned? But I am Thankful that he was that much older.....he was much easier to Train and seems more Stable physically & mentally! Abigail on the other hand I purchased @ 7 weeks old and I too had a $350.00 Vet./Hospital bill for a "Hypoglycemia" siezure, but I never thought to give her back to the Breeder b/c I was so in Love with her that I felt obligated and determined to make it work! I had a Litter of 3 puppies 3 weeks ago w/c is a product of my committment to her! Thank goodness for Nutrical its a cure all! I learned an expensive Lesson and as a result of that I am keeping her puppies for a minimum of 12 weeks and the smallest Baby/Runt for 15 weeks just in case? But I would search your Heart and follow your gut feeling? Sometimes when people decide to get a Yorkie, they want it so bad that they don't do enough Research, they are so impatient that they take the first available one they come across? Sometimes it could take up to a year to find the right one. My Sister met Artie 2 yrs. ago and had been waiting for me to have a Litter, last May her Husband bought her a Yorkie for Mother's Day as a surprise! Of course she was thrilled but to this day she regrets not waiting another 4 months for mine, afterall whats another 4 months compared to 2 yrs.? And guess what she asked me for her Birthday present (on 9/28)? Let us know what you decide? Sorry I'm no help I'm a Sucker, I'll always cheer for the Underdog it's just more gratifying in the end, Aloha & Good Luck!

blondflava · 09-30-2006, 05:02 PM

We all want a healthy pet.... It's hard to get your dreamed about dog and realize it needs special attention and care, and wait for new symptoms to arise for some unknown diseases it may carry. When did it get so complicated? When I was growing up (not that long ago, c'mon...about 15 years or so) it was easy. When you decided you wanted to own a pet, you made sure it got it shots, you took your time to train it and love it. I don't remember anyone I know owning a pet with life-threatening problems. I understand your dilemma... And I won't tell you what to do. You need to come to that decision by yourself, just follow what you think is best for you. As from my experience, I was initially looking for a 'tiny' Yorkie (didn't do my research and didn't know so many things can go wrong with those little ones

). When I got Pepper I wanted him small, around 4 lbs. And it looked he would be. He was 1.6 at 10 weeks and got a very bad reaction to one of the vaccines. I almost lost him, had to be rushed to ER vet for IV. I realized he's dangerously small, and started hoping he'll grow more than those 4 lbs. He did and he's over 3.5 lbs at 4 months and I know he'll grow more still (I'm hoping for 6 lbs or even a little more- that's a good size). Last vaccine didn't have any effect on him -he played the whole day after - and I know it's because he's way bigger and stronger. Those guys are so tiny when regular size, it's just scary with 'runts of the litter'. I personally don't think I could afford a lifelong of worries about a sick pet and a lifelong of expenses that come with it...

09-29-2006, 05:41 PM	#31
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	pup The fact he is not eating is a big problem that can lead to death so fast..it could be because he is too small to leave just yet or it could be a serious problem...let the breeder assume the vet bills and stess of a pup like this, that is what we are suppose to do for pur puppies, NOT the pet owner. There is no greater heart break and stress then dealing with a sick puppy. Liver shunt has no one set of symtoms...it can be mild to fatal. They start by not eating and growing as a rule...then the other problems can start..the amount of food a one pound pup requires is not much, but he should be active and playing no matter how small he is..good luck

09-29-2006, 05:54 PM	#32
Chrissy0277 Its all about the yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,451	http://livershunt.org/ Click on sucess stories on the bottom and then when that page opens scroll down to the bottom success stories page 4 read Lacy's story. Her first symptoms were not eating, hypoglycemia, no energy.. Im just worried now that this breeder isnt going to do the testing, its this persons responsiblity to make this puppy better. If your going to take him, that group helps fund the LS surgery for those who need financial help. I just want you to know there is help out there. __________________ CHRISSY Nikki Precious Lizzy Mimi , Lena Taboo

09-29-2006, 06:06 PM	#33
Chrissy0277 Its all about the yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,451	With all this negative talk about livershunt.. I do want to say something positive.. If he is diagnosed with livershunt its not a death sentance, this is fixable with surgery. If you want to learn more about LS and speak with others who have dogs who had LS or dogs with MVD (microvascular dysplasia, many shunts inside the liver, which isnt fixable but can be controlled with proper diet and meds) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/ I belong to this group and dont have any dogs with liver problems, Im just there to learn and while in the process met a group of wonderful people __________________ CHRISSY Nikki Precious Lizzy Mimi , Lena Taboo

09-30-2006, 07:14 AM	#35
Willis&Cassie YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mississippi Posts: 7	Sharong Even if you decide not to keep the puppy, please speak to the breeder about having the puppy bile acid tested. Regardless if you keep the pup or not, please join our group.....and have your breeder join, too. Even if liver shunt is ruled out, every breeder should educate themselves on this disease. Our group has extremely valuable information and caring members. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/

09-30-2006, 07:41 AM	#37
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	problem Now you have brought up another problem..the soft spot. It is not unusal for tinies to have them..BUT there is an acceptable size and unacceptable size for the pet buyer to deal with... He may be perfectly fine, but this is one reason a tiny such as him should not be sold until around 5 to 6 months..by then the breeder pretty well knows all is well...why give someone a pack of heartaches?

09-30-2006, 07:21 AM	#36
sharong Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 166	Hi. Thanks for the info. As I said, I don't know what the breeder is going to do. I mentioned it a couple/few times and she said that he did not have the symptoms. She said that she has one now that is 2 years old and acted the same way. He had been sold and brought back because he didn't want to eat, etc. He was very happy just to be back with his mother. She says that he still sleeps with his mom at this age. What did your puppies act like before they were diagnosed? This one simply turns his nose at every conceivable piece of food -- no matter what it is. He was a tad playful the first day we got him. But, after that, he really didn't play much at all. The breeder says its because he's still so small and she thinks the soft spot on his head still hasn't fully closed. There were only two puppies in the litter. He was the smaller of the two. She thinks that has a lot to do with it. He has been back with his mom for a week now and still is not eating. She says that he's much more playful but I'm not there to see it of course. He's living on the nutrical. My husband says to just get our money back and she says that she'll do that. She also has another litter due for Christmas and we can have a pick of that one. I think that even if he starts eating in the three weeks that we'll be gone, I'll still be afraid to have him. I think I'll always worry too much about him. I have done nothing but fret over this and I really shouldn't have to. Again, it's my head telling me one thing and my heart telling me another. I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion not to take him at all. But, I don't know for sure. I told my husband that he needs to be the one to take charge and give the answer since I can't do it. Thanks again.

09-30-2006, 07:50 AM	#38
sharong Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 166	I had never thought of a soft spot in a puppy to tell the truth. She did mention that in talking to my husband the other day and then mentioned it to me yesterday when talking. But, she didn't seem to be too concerned. I would not think that that would have anything to do with the other symptoms, would it? I have been reading and reading on the liver shunt symptoms, diagnosis, etc. I have convinced myself now that that is what is wrong with him. He just seems to fit all the symptoms. It is heartbreaking. Even if I got him and he ate and started acting like a puppy; I wonder if I would ever feel fully comfortable. Just so confusing......

09-30-2006, 04:42 PM	#39
artie merlino YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach,SC Posts: 697	Expensive Lessons It sounds like your baby is just too young to leave his Mother, IMO the Breeder should keep him until he is at least 12 or even 15 weeks! I bought Artie off of the Internet and he was 20 weeks old by the time I received him b/c he was sold/transfered 2 times before I had purchased him, for whatever reason or maybe he was returned? But I am Thankful that he was that much older.....he was much easier to Train and seems more Stable physically & mentally! Abigail on the other hand I purchased @ 7 weeks old and I too had a $350.00 Vet./Hospital bill for a "Hypoglycemia" siezure, but I never thought to give her back to the Breeder b/c I was so in Love with her that I felt obligated and determined to make it work! I had a Litter of 3 puppies 3 weeks ago w/c is a product of my committment to her! Thank goodness for Nutrical its a cure all! I learned an expensive Lesson and as a result of that I am keeping her puppies for a minimum of 12 weeks and the smallest Baby/Runt for 15 weeks just in case? But I would search your Heart and follow your gut feeling? Sometimes when people decide to get a Yorkie, they want it so bad that they don't do enough Research, they are so impatient that they take the first available one they come across? Sometimes it could take up to a year to find the right one. My Sister met Artie 2 yrs. ago and had been waiting for me to have a Litter, last May her Husband bought her a Yorkie for Mother's Day as a surprise! Of course she was thrilled but to this day she regrets not waiting another 4 months for mine, afterall whats another 4 months compared to 2 yrs.? And guess what she asked me for her Birthday present (on 9/28)? Let us know what you decide? Sorry I'm no help I'm a Sucker, I'll always cheer for the Underdog it's just more gratifying in the end, Aloha & Good Luck!

09-30-2006, 05:02 PM	#40
blondflava Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kearny, NJ Posts: 1,183	We all want a healthy pet.... It's hard to get your dreamed about dog and realize it needs special attention and care, and wait for new symptoms to arise for some unknown diseases it may carry. When did it get so complicated? When I was growing up (not that long ago, c'mon...about 15 years or so) it was easy. When you decided you wanted to own a pet, you made sure it got it shots, you took your time to train it and love it. I don't remember anyone I know owning a pet with life-threatening problems. I understand your dilemma... And I won't tell you what to do. You need to come to that decision by yourself, just follow what you think is best for you. As from my experience, I was initially looking for a 'tiny' Yorkie (didn't do my research and didn't know so many things can go wrong with those little ones ). When I got Pepper I wanted him small, around 4 lbs. And it looked he would be. He was 1.6 at 10 weeks and got a very bad reaction to one of the vaccines. I almost lost him, had to be rushed to ER vet for IV. I realized he's dangerously small, and started hoping he'll grow more than those 4 lbs. He did and he's over 3.5 lbs at 4 months and I know he'll grow more still (I'm hoping for 6 lbs or even a little more- that's a good size). Last vaccine didn't have any effect on him -he played the whole day after - and I know it's because he's way bigger and stronger. Those guys are so tiny when regular size, it's just scary with 'runts of the litter'. I personally don't think I could afford a lifelong of worries about a sick pet and a lifelong of expenses that come with it... __________________ Izabela ... and Pepper Rest in peace, Kora, you're always in my Last edited by blondflava; 09-30-2006 at 05:04 PM.