Question about Puppy Mills - YorkieTalk.com Forums

doortego · 08-23-2006, 06:38 AM

This will be long but I really want to figure out something we can do about the puppy mills. So much so that I took a little trip to visit one:

Clearwater Puppies in Ronks, PA. Our experience there was about as you would expect. There is a sign out on the main road that lists about a dozen breeds of puppies. We pull up into the driveway where several Amish are in the yard, they tell us that the puppies are not there but give us directions to their neighbors house.

We go to the second Amish farm and a young Amish girl comes out. I ask her about the puppies & she wants to know what kind I want. I ask what she has and she starts a whole list. I ask to see them & she says she has to bring them out. She says that she will just bring out a few and heads off to a barn at the back. That barn is huge but I don't see any dogs other than a small poodle she has at the house and a huge German Shepherd dog that seems to be guarding the back. After a while, I do hear barking but still haven't seen any other dogs until she comes back with 3 puppies, a Bichon, a Yorkie & King Charles Spaniel. The puppies appear to be healthy & happy, well fed but I have no idea what kind of conditions they came from.

I did ask a few questions but learned very little. I do know that they had at least multiple breeding pairs of several different breeds. Prices ranging from about $400 to $1000.

After returning & doing internet research, I find Clearwater Puppies listed on this site, news reports & such as having many violations. I don't know what can be done about it. I was particularly struck by the remark of one of the Amish in an interview when he stated something to the effect that the people that purchase their dogs treat them like humans & let them sleep in their beds but that they treat their animals as animals.

Is there a way that we can provide evidence that raising dogs should not be just like raising cows or sheep? In our minds, there is an emotional factor involved. Even giving them the benefit of a doubt that the animals are provided clean water, food & ample shelter, we believe that they need human interaction. Is that true? or is that just what I believe because my little pup is treated like a child? Is a dog happy just in clean conditions with ample food & water like a cow or sheep?

I realize that this is a very complex question but we need to ask it and find some way of fixing the problem. Can I just get a little brainstorming? Not trying to throw stones or start arguments, just want to do something about the suffering of dogs?

yorkieusa · 08-23-2006, 07:14 AM

Well, to the Amish, raising dogs is nothing more than a cash crop.

We don't go to them looking to buy cows or sheeps as house pets, therefore, I don't see how you can make any comparison.

When people go to buy a puppy, they believe they are getting one that will interact well with their families. The problem is that these puppies are raised with little or no human contact. Therefore, when people buy them and take them home, they sometimes find either a very timid puppy or a very aggressive puppy.

There are horror stories about the conditions in which these doggies are kept. Constantly caged, no vet care, and I shudder to think about the lack of forethought given to which two puppies are thrown together and how often they are bred. Genetic nightmares that you see so often today are the result of these kinds of breeding environments.

ferragame · 08-23-2006, 08:35 AM

I live in West Lawn, PA about an hr east of Lancaster which is puppy mill central. My wife sees the results of puppy mills every day at the vet hospital. Its terrible. As a breeder, it makes me sick to think of what the poor animals endure.

People have the misconception that the Amish are "special". That buying from them means they get a better "product" because the Amish do things the "old fashioned" way. Well that is simply not true. Maybe (and maybe not) the quilt you buy from an Amish lady is better made than a store bought quilt but thats different....its not a living thing. The Amish believe breeding puppies is the responsiblity of children. Its not an adult job. How many 10 year olds do you know that is responsible enough to care for him/herself let alone puppies? Not many.

To the Amish its a cash crop nothing more. They are raised in horrible conditions. There was actually a newspaper article in my local paper last week about the Governor cracking down on puppy mills. He supposedly owns two labs rescued from a puppy mill.

I don't know how effective it will be.....but one can hope.

doortego · 08-23-2006, 09:32 AM

What can we do?? Is there some study or something that we can use to convince the government that dogs are not cows or goats or sheep & should not be raised in a farm atmosphere.

In reading an old thread on here about the Amish said something like, These dogs have never lived in anything other than a kennel environment, so it is not a hardship or cruel to them. That is all they know.

I know we all have horror stories & I don't think anyone doubts that something needs to be done, But how & what?

Suggestions for a solution, please.

4Dogs · 08-23-2006, 09:39 AM

I've read this thread 4 times now. I wish I had an easy answer - or even a short term fix but I don't. Education is very powerful and reaching out to the general populous and educating them on the real truths about puppy mills is a step in the right direction. Sweeping changes can't happen without the proper legislation.

doortego · 08-23-2006, 10:00 AM

I don't think that we can seriously affect the puppy mills as individuals. Even if every YTer vowed never to purchase another puppy that they could not assure themselves had not come from unfavorable conditions, there will be 2 others to take each of our places.

I believe it has to come from state & federal legislation. So, that being said, how do we affect our state & federal representatives? Do we join with Humane Societies, etc or just individually write to them?

I also think we need facts to back up our arguments & not just emotionalism.
Some already think we are fanatics. We need something that convinces legislators that dogs are not cattle & cannot be raised/or sold as such.

Is there a report somewhere by an animal behaviorist that cites that dogs that are otherwise well cared for are still harmed by lack of human contact? Is it more cruel to have a dog confined to a cage than it is for a horse or cow to be kept in a stall. Are there laws that say a horse or cow has to have a certain amount of room per animal?

I personally find it inhumane to have a dog/puppy confined to a cage inside a barn for its entire life but how can I prove that as a fact?

Is there a good animal rights organization that is making strides in this area that we need to throw our support, both physically and financially, behind.

If I dwell on this situation without trying to do something about it, it would drive me nuts. However, if I just ignore it so it doesn't upset me, then I become part of the problem.

JeanieK · 08-23-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doortego

This will be long but I really want to figure out something we can do about the puppy mills. So much so that I took a little trip to visit one:

Clearwater Puppies in Ronks, PA. Our experience there was about as you would expect. There is a sign out on the main road that lists about a dozen breeds of puppies. We pull up into the driveway where several Amish are in the yard, they tell us that the puppies are not there but give us directions to their neighbors house.

We go to the second Amish farm and a young Amish girl comes out. I ask her about the puppies & she wants to know what kind I want. I ask what she has and she starts a whole list. I ask to see them & she says she has to bring them out. She says that she will just bring out a few and heads off to a barn at the back. That barn is huge but I don't see any dogs other than a small poodle she has at the house and a huge German Shepherd dog that seems to be guarding the back. After a while, I do hear barking but still haven't seen any other dogs until she comes back with 3 puppies, a Bichon, a Yorkie & King Charles Spaniel. The puppies appear to be healthy & happy, well fed but I have no idea what kind of conditions they came from.

I did ask a few questions but learned very little. I do know that they had at least multiple breeding pairs of several different breeds. Prices ranging from about $400 to $1000.

After returning & doing internet research, I find Clearwater Puppies listed on this site, news reports & such as having many violations. I don't know what can be done about it. I was particularly struck by the remark of one of the Amish in an interview when he stated something to the effect that the people that purchase their dogs treat them like humans & let them sleep in their beds but that they treat their animals as animals.

Is there a way that we can provide evidence that raising dogs should not be just like raising cows or sheep? In our minds, there is an emotional factor involved. Even giving them the benefit of a doubt that the animals are provided clean water, food & ample shelter, we believe that they need human interaction. Is that true? or is that just what I believe because my little pup is treated like a child? Is a dog happy just in clean conditions with ample food & water like a cow or sheep?

I realize that this is a very complex question but we need to ask it and find some way of fixing the problem. Can I just get a little brainstorming? Not trying to throw stones or start arguments, just want to do something about the suffering of dogs?

Well first we have to start with the USDA. Their requirements state that the dogs should be kept in A separate building and in cages and so on. Who are they trying to protect the dogs or the people. If I want to keep my breeding dogs in my house that should be my business. It might be a concern for the Health Department, but certainly not the USDA.

So according to the USDA, if you keep your dogs in your house, you are in violation,

but if you keep them in a separate building in cages, you get a

JeanieK · 08-23-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doortego

What can we do?? Is there some study or something that we can use to convince the government that dogs are not cows or goats or sheep & should not be raised in a farm atmosphere.

In reading an old thread on here about the Amish said something like, These dogs have never lived in anything other than a kennel environment, so it is not a hardship or cruel to them. That is all they know.

I know we all have horror stories & I don't think anyone doubts that something needs to be done, But how & what?

Suggestions for a solution, please.

This is the whole problem. The general belief is that as long as they are kept clean and fed and provided health care that it is not harmful to them.

Dogs are social animals, not like cattle. Actually I feel sorry for any animal that is not allowed out in the fresh air and sunshine daily.

Maybe we can apply to the government for a grant to study this. That is how other people prove or disprove a theory. They get government grants.

We need some veterinary students, or animal behavior science majors to study this.

yorkieusa · 08-23-2006, 10:22 AM

Have you been here?

http://www.millbusters.com/

doortego · 08-23-2006, 10:26 AM

I will check the above website next but I did find this article:
What You Can Do

No one has more power to fight puppy mills than the consumer. In each individual's hands is the ability to stop the cycle of abuse that ends with the purchase of a puppy mill puppy at a pet store.

Don't Buy A Dog From A Pet Store.
It's that simple. Most puppies sold in pet stores come from puppy mills. Because it is virtually impossible to determine the quality of the breeding facility listed on the puppy's papers, the more humane option is simply not to buy the dog at all. Although the consumer may be assured that American Kennel Club (AKC) papers guarantee a quality dog, in reality, nothing is further from the truth. After years of artfully dodging the question of how AKC papers could be registered to dogs and puppies found in the worst of puppy mills, the AKC itself is admitting the misconceptions that are connected with purebred papers.

Opt To Adopt Instead.
When you're ready to bring a dog into your life, visit your local animal shelter. Millions of homeless dogs are waiting at animal shelters for life-long, responsible homes. You won't be supporting the puppy mill industry, and at the same time, you'll be fighting the tragic pet overpopulation problem. If you are interested in a particular breed, your animal shelter can help you locate a breed specific adoption group that will match you with the type of dog you want.
In addition, some humane societies and animal shelters are working in cooperation with pet supply stores in adopting out shelter animals. Check with your local shelter to find out who they may be working with in your area.

Why Adoption?
Unlike buying, adoption usually focuses on matching the adopter's lifestyle and habits with the animal's needs and characteristics. When an animal is sold, profit comes first. Most pet stores will sell an animal to almost anyone. A young puppy may be sold to someone who may not have the time to take care of her. The profit motive only puts the animal's interests in jeopardy.
Make Your Voice Heard.
Outrage at the conditions found in many puppy mills has brought increased awareness to the issue. Legislators listen to calls and letters from constituents, and plan their priorities accordingly. Contacting your state and federal representatives does makes a difference. On the personal level, resolve to inform friends, neighbors, and family about the puppy mill issue. Many people who care deeply about animals are not always aware of the connection between the pet store puppy and the breeding female trapped for life in a mill.
There is light at the end of the tunnel for dogs housed and bred in puppy mills. Collectively, we can fight an industry that views dogs as mere profit machines. Dogs, our best friends and companions, deserve our best effort. After all the licks, wags, and love they have given us, we owe them this fight. Their lives depend on it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rachel A. Lamb is Director for Companion Animal Care at The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) in Washington, DC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YorkieRose · 08-23-2006, 10:27 AM

Cows, sheep, as most livestock (food based) can live perfectly well with no human contact IMO..if you had an automatic system that fed, cleaned out barns, detect any visible infections, health problems etc, turned them out to pasture and gathered them at night, I would dare say you would have normal cows or sheep..no insane lunies. Even horses do perfectly well living free...note, Assateague Island ponies...I do think livestock need other livestock to live among, I doubt even a cow would be happy living alone in a barn, with no humans or other animals.

If you "farm" domestic animals as livestock, in short time you have mentally unsound animals, with pack mentality. They, in turn produce mentally unsound animals...dogs need human contact, they can not live confined in cages like birds..when they receive little contact, they do not always make good pets, bonding toward humans is so hard...a cow does not need to learn to interact with humans from the first few weeks... not many live in our homes, become our companions and play with our children...I have meet a number of Amish breeders in Maryland, I have NO respect for any of them.

snickers mom · 08-23-2006, 10:45 AM

another site people could check out to help/educate/stop puppymills is
www.nopuppymills.com
they were my primary source of education after i brought snickers home
and they do all kinds of petshop puppy reports

4Dogs · 08-23-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snickers mom

another site people could check out to help/educate/stop puppymills is
www.nopuppymills.com
they were my primary source of education after i brought snickers home
and they do all kinds of petshop puppy reports

This is where I have started once I brought Charlie home last week and realized that he started his short 9 months as a product of a puppymill in MO before being sold EXACTLY at 8 weeks of age in New York.

SnowWa · 08-23-2006, 11:11 AM

QUOTE -- "I was particularly struck by the remark of one of the Amish in an interview when he stated something to the effect that the people that purchase their dogs treat them like humans & let them sleep in their beds but that they treat their animals as animals."

Dogs are animals. They are not "humans." So - treating a dog like an animal, in itself, isn't such a bad thing.

Remember that people can treat animals very well or very poorly.

I suspect that any situation like the one you visited isn't treating the dogs that they are using for breeding very well. I agree with you that dogs need freedom to run and play and interact with people. Being kept in a barn only to breed is abusive as far as I am concerned.

My father grew up with working dogs on their farm. They were certainly treated like dogs (animals) -- but nonetheless, they were loved and well cared for by his family. Those dogs were my father's best friends and playmates when he was growing up (when they weren't working).... and they loved to work. They helped manage the sheep and other livestock and were guard dogs as well.

The Amish do feel this way about dogs and other animals as well - it is part of their culture. But, that being said -- there is never any excuse for abusing any animal. And - I'm sure that not all of them are guilty of this.

***** For the life of me --- I will never understand why someone can't just walk in a close these places down -- like "yesterday!"

Carol Jean

snickers mom · 08-23-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Dogs

This is where I have started once I brought Charlie home last week and realized that he started his short 9 months as a product of a puppymill in MO before being sold EXACTLY at 8 weeks of age in New York.

did you get a petshop puppy report on him? mine was the so eye-opening/upsetting/made me irate type
now i know what i wish i knew a long time ago
but the site is great for education, ideas on preventing puppymills, and petshop puppy reports

08-23-2006, 06:38 AM	#1
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: US Posts: 2,160	Question about Puppy Mills This will be long but I really want to figure out something we can do about the puppy mills. So much so that I took a little trip to visit one: Clearwater Puppies in Ronks, PA. Our experience there was about as you would expect. There is a sign out on the main road that lists about a dozen breeds of puppies. We pull up into the driveway where several Amish are in the yard, they tell us that the puppies are not there but give us directions to their neighbors house. We go to the second Amish farm and a young Amish girl comes out. I ask her about the puppies & she wants to know what kind I want. I ask what she has and she starts a whole list. I ask to see them & she says she has to bring them out. She says that she will just bring out a few and heads off to a barn at the back. That barn is huge but I don't see any dogs other than a small poodle she has at the house and a huge German Shepherd dog that seems to be guarding the back. After a while, I do hear barking but still haven't seen any other dogs until she comes back with 3 puppies, a Bichon, a Yorkie & King Charles Spaniel. The puppies appear to be healthy & happy, well fed but I have no idea what kind of conditions they came from. I did ask a few questions but learned very little. I do know that they had at least multiple breeding pairs of several different breeds. Prices ranging from about $400 to $1000. After returning & doing internet research, I find Clearwater Puppies listed on this site, news reports & such as having many violations. I don't know what can be done about it. I was particularly struck by the remark of one of the Amish in an interview when he stated something to the effect that the people that purchase their dogs treat them like humans & let them sleep in their beds but that they treat their animals as animals. Is there a way that we can provide evidence that raising dogs should not be just like raising cows or sheep? In our minds, there is an emotional factor involved. Even giving them the benefit of a doubt that the animals are provided clean water, food & ample shelter, we believe that they need human interaction. Is that true? or is that just what I believe because my little pup is treated like a child? Is a dog happy just in clean conditions with ample food & water like a cow or sheep? I realize that this is a very complex question but we need to ask it and find some way of fixing the problem. Can I just get a little brainstorming? Not trying to throw stones or start arguments, just want to do something about the suffering of dogs?

08-23-2006, 07:14 AM	#2
yorkieusa Crazy about Kacee! Donating Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 21,173	Well, to the Amish, raising dogs is nothing more than a cash crop. We don't go to them looking to buy cows or sheeps as house pets, therefore, I don't see how you can make any comparison. When people go to buy a puppy, they believe they are getting one that will interact well with their families. The problem is that these puppies are raised with little or no human contact. Therefore, when people buy them and take them home, they sometimes find either a very timid puppy or a very aggressive puppy. There are horror stories about the conditions in which these doggies are kept. Constantly caged, no vet care, and I shudder to think about the lack of forethought given to which two puppies are thrown together and how often they are bred. Genetic nightmares that you see so often today are the result of these kinds of breeding environments. __________________ Karen Kacee Muffin 1991-2005 Rest in Peace My Little Angel

08-23-2006, 08:35 AM	#3
ferragame Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 178	I live in West Lawn, PA about an hr east of Lancaster which is puppy mill central. My wife sees the results of puppy mills every day at the vet hospital. Its terrible. As a breeder, it makes me sick to think of what the poor animals endure. People have the misconception that the Amish are "special". That buying from them means they get a better "product" because the Amish do things the "old fashioned" way. Well that is simply not true. Maybe (and maybe not) the quilt you buy from an Amish lady is better made than a store bought quilt but thats different....its not a living thing. The Amish believe breeding puppies is the responsiblity of children. Its not an adult job. How many 10 year olds do you know that is responsible enough to care for him/herself let alone puppies? Not many. To the Amish its a cash crop nothing more. They are raised in horrible conditions. There was actually a newspaper article in my local paper last week about the Governor cracking down on puppy mills. He supposedly owns two labs rescued from a puppy mill. I don't know how effective it will be.....but one can hope. __________________ Terrance & Eileen Ferragame

08-23-2006, 09:32 AM	#4
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: US Posts: 2,160	But What can we do?? Is there some study or something that we can use to convince the government that dogs are not cows or goats or sheep & should not be raised in a farm atmosphere. In reading an old thread on here about the Amish said something like, These dogs have never lived in anything other than a kennel environment, so it is not a hardship or cruel to them. That is all they know. I know we all have horror stories & I don't think anyone doubts that something needs to be done, But how & what? Suggestions for a solution, please.

08-23-2006, 09:39 AM	#5
4Dogs YT Addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 351	I've read this thread 4 times now. I wish I had an easy answer - or even a short term fix but I don't. Education is very powerful and reaching out to the general populous and educating them on the real truths about puppy mills is a step in the right direction. Sweeping changes can't happen without the proper legislation. __________________ Loved by Roxy, Ruby & Bonnie Prince Charlie Robbie Piper Socrates,Sarah & Sam

08-23-2006, 10:00 AM	#6
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: US Posts: 2,160	I don't think that we can seriously affect the puppy mills as individuals. Even if every YTer vowed never to purchase another puppy that they could not assure themselves had not come from unfavorable conditions, there will be 2 others to take each of our places. I believe it has to come from state & federal legislation. So, that being said, how do we affect our state & federal representatives? Do we join with Humane Societies, etc or just individually write to them? I also think we need facts to back up our arguments & not just emotionalism. Some already think we are fanatics. We need something that convinces legislators that dogs are not cattle & cannot be raised/or sold as such. Is there a report somewhere by an animal behaviorist that cites that dogs that are otherwise well cared for are still harmed by lack of human contact? Is it more cruel to have a dog confined to a cage than it is for a horse or cow to be kept in a stall. Are there laws that say a horse or cow has to have a certain amount of room per animal? I personally find it inhumane to have a dog/puppy confined to a cage inside a barn for its entire life but how can I prove that as a fact? Is there a good animal rights organization that is making strides in this area that we need to throw our support, both physically and financially, behind. If I dwell on this situation without trying to do something about it, it would drive me nuts. However, if I just ignore it so it doesn't upset me, then I become part of the problem.

08-23-2006, 10:22 AM	#9
yorkieusa Crazy about Kacee! Donating Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 21,173	Have you been here? http://www.millbusters.com/ __________________ Karen Kacee Muffin 1991-2005 Rest in Peace My Little Angel

08-23-2006, 10:26 AM	#10
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: US Posts: 2,160	Suggestions to Stop Puppymills I will check the above website next but I did find this article: What You Can Do No one has more power to fight puppy mills than the consumer. In each individual's hands is the ability to stop the cycle of abuse that ends with the purchase of a puppy mill puppy at a pet store. Don't Buy A Dog From A Pet Store. It's that simple. Most puppies sold in pet stores come from puppy mills. Because it is virtually impossible to determine the quality of the breeding facility listed on the puppy's papers, the more humane option is simply not to buy the dog at all. Although the consumer may be assured that American Kennel Club (AKC) papers guarantee a quality dog, in reality, nothing is further from the truth. After years of artfully dodging the question of how AKC papers could be registered to dogs and puppies found in the worst of puppy mills, the AKC itself is admitting the misconceptions that are connected with purebred papers. Opt To Adopt Instead. When you're ready to bring a dog into your life, visit your local animal shelter. Millions of homeless dogs are waiting at animal shelters for life-long, responsible homes. You won't be supporting the puppy mill industry, and at the same time, you'll be fighting the tragic pet overpopulation problem. If you are interested in a particular breed, your animal shelter can help you locate a breed specific adoption group that will match you with the type of dog you want. In addition, some humane societies and animal shelters are working in cooperation with pet supply stores in adopting out shelter animals. Check with your local shelter to find out who they may be working with in your area. Why Adoption? Unlike buying, adoption usually focuses on matching the adopter's lifestyle and habits with the animal's needs and characteristics. When an animal is sold, profit comes first. Most pet stores will sell an animal to almost anyone. A young puppy may be sold to someone who may not have the time to take care of her. The profit motive only puts the animal's interests in jeopardy. Make Your Voice Heard. Outrage at the conditions found in many puppy mills has brought increased awareness to the issue. Legislators listen to calls and letters from constituents, and plan their priorities accordingly. Contacting your state and federal representatives does makes a difference. On the personal level, resolve to inform friends, neighbors, and family about the puppy mill issue. Many people who care deeply about animals are not always aware of the connection between the pet store puppy and the breeding female trapped for life in a mill. There is light at the end of the tunnel for dogs housed and bred in puppy mills. Collectively, we can fight an industry that views dogs as mere profit machines. Dogs, our best friends and companions, deserve our best effort. After all the licks, wags, and love they have given us, we owe them this fight. Their lives depend on it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rachel A. Lamb is Director for Companion Animal Care at The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) in Washington, DC. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

08-23-2006, 10:27 AM	#11
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	breeder Cows, sheep, as most livestock (food based) can live perfectly well with no human contact IMO..if you had an automatic system that fed, cleaned out barns, detect any visible infections, health problems etc, turned them out to pasture and gathered them at night, I would dare say you would have normal cows or sheep..no insane lunies. Even horses do perfectly well living free...note, Assateague Island ponies...I do think livestock need other livestock to live among, I doubt even a cow would be happy living alone in a barn, with no humans or other animals. If you "farm" domestic animals as livestock, in short time you have mentally unsound animals, with pack mentality. They, in turn produce mentally unsound animals...dogs need human contact, they can not live confined in cages like birds..when they receive little contact, they do not always make good pets, bonding toward humans is so hard...a cow does not need to learn to interact with humans from the first few weeks... not many live in our homes, become our companions and play with our children...I have meet a number of Amish breeders in Maryland, I have NO respect for any of them.

08-23-2006, 10:45 AM	#12
snickers mom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 687	another site people could check out to help/educate/stop puppymills is www.nopuppymills.com they were my primary source of education after i brought snickers home and they do all kinds of petshop puppy reports

08-23-2006, 11:11 AM	#14
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	QUOTE -- "I was particularly struck by the remark of one of the Amish in an interview when he stated something to the effect that the people that purchase their dogs treat them like humans & let them sleep in their beds but that they treat their animals as animals." Dogs are animals. They are not "humans." So - treating a dog like an animal, in itself, isn't such a bad thing. Remember that people can treat animals very well or very poorly. I suspect that any situation like the one you visited isn't treating the dogs that they are using for breeding very well. I agree with you that dogs need freedom to run and play and interact with people. Being kept in a barn only to breed is abusive as far as I am concerned. My father grew up with working dogs on their farm. They were certainly treated like dogs (animals) -- but nonetheless, they were loved and well cared for by his family. Those dogs were my father's best friends and playmates when he was growing up (when they weren't working).... and they loved to work. They helped manage the sheep and other livestock and were guard dogs as well. The Amish do feel this way about dogs and other animals as well - it is part of their culture. But, that being said -- there is never any excuse for abusing any animal. And - I'm sure that not all of them are guilty of this. ***** For the life of me --- I will never understand why someone can't just walk in a close these places down -- like "yesterday!" Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.