how much is that doggie? too much - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

sashajade · 07-30-2006, 07:27 AM

i do think breeders should make some money from doing it but if i bought 3 chi and breed all of them and they all have 4 pups each and i sold them i would make about 12.000 pound, thats all my debts gone and you cant tell me it would cost anywhere near 12.000 pound in vet costs for those litters. thats just silly money

Julz · 07-30-2006, 08:03 AM

A litter of pups and vet costs aren't the only things that go into breeding. It is risky....and we all know that "risky jobs" pay more than non-risky jobs in life. And trust me, it is a job. One that demands your time 365 days a year...pups or not. If you worked out what a breeder makes just from the time you breed your female until the time a pup goes (though planning and care of the female continues all year through), it is next to nothing. I'm not saying this is how breeders think...they don't. It is just that once a litter of pups is born, that may be all a buyer sees and therefore thinks it is all profit from there. Think of many different industries where a person puts a lot of time and money and thought into the foundation of a company...we only think of the product they sell and if it is a good deal or not. I'm just saying there is more to it than meets the eye. In addtion, any company needs to put a certain percentage aside for future maintenance and emergencies.

Lila · 07-30-2006, 08:11 AM

I know a family on welfare who own a Yorkie as well as a pit bull and a poodle --- all purebreds.

Being on social assistsance should not be an issue! If it is possible, and someone wants a dog, their income should not bar them. I am on a disability-a very low income-and have my Yorkshire Terrier. I am hoping to acquire another as a playmate for her, but the cost of a puppy is more than I receive in a month. As far as maintenance, I have an understanding vet-he knows I will pay albeit slowly, and in emergency, do have family who will help. I do the grooming and basic care myself; she eats excellent dog food-less than $12.00/month.

To me, having a dog is essential; she is why I get up in the morning.

Julz · 07-30-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julz

A litter of pups and vet costs aren't the only things that go into breeding. It is risky....and we all know that "risky jobs" pay more than non-risky jobs in life. And trust me, it is a job. One that demands your time 365 days a year...pups or not. If you worked out what a breeder makes just from the time you breed your female until the time a pup goes (though planning and care of the female continues all year through), it is next to nothing. I'm not saying this is how breeders think...they don't. It is just that once a litter of pups is born, that may be all a buyer sees and therefore thinks it is all profit from there. Think of many different industries where a person puts a lot of time and money and thought into the foundation of a company...we only think of the product they sell and if it is a good deal or not. I'm just saying there is more to it than meets the eye. In addtion, any company needs to put a certain percentage aside for future maintenance and emergencies.

What I meant by "paying more" is that at the time of the sell it seems like a high-paying job.

topknot · 07-30-2006, 09:48 AM

Julz - you are right.

Reputable breeders for one thing do not have pups that often and most of their time is devoted to their dogs. And yes there are so many more hours into breeding and raising a pup to get it ready for its new home. And yes, we do have to set money aside for emergencies for next time or to buy what ever the dogs need at the time. I am always in the negative if you count what is brought in and taken for the dogs. I always have to use my own money and a lot of it. For starters main expense is ~ how much you dogs cost - 3,000. each average, showing expensives (leads, show entries, shampoos, bows, conditioners, scissors, brushes, combs, etc..) travel to shows (gas, hotels, food, car insurance, car up keep), food, vet bills, toys, pillows, blankets, dog club dues, travel to club meetings and car expensives, handling classes, travel and car expensives, travel to and from vets, time from work, staying up at night to make sure pups and mom okay and time it takes to whelp a litter (most are born at night), time researching and learning, magaizines, and yorkie books, AKC paper work (registrations), etc.... I am also considering buying a camper to go to shows, so I would not have a hotel expense. And yes, I count showing for me important in raising and breeding since I want to make sure my yorkies are of excellent quality to breed. You learn a lot by attending and entering shows!

topknot · 07-30-2006, 10:09 AM

I forgot to add in the cost of your sire and dam to be tested before breeding to make sure they are not passing on any undesirable health problems - Laxtating pedellas, liver shunts, heart problems, vd, etc...

SnowWa · 07-30-2006, 12:51 PM

QUOTE --- "But when you think of price you are not just paying for a pup you will own for around 15 years, and a companion, but you are paying for vet care, shots, hours it takes to be with the momma dog while whelping the litter, food/feeding, cleaning and changing pads or papers, supplies ~pillows, blankets, and the long long hours that the breeder did researching and learning all she could to have good quality pups. It is not just for your one pup, but what quality and care the breeder gave to her mom and the sire to produce this healthy happy puppy."

----------------

Does the above apply only to Yorkies --- or to any breed of dog????

If you factor all the above into the price of a pup -- then all puppies (regardless of the breed) --- should cost nearly the same amount of money.....as well as some mixed breeds. All puppies should receive a lot of loving care and visit the vet for their shots and special care, if they are sick, etc.......not just Yorkies.

Years ago - I raised two litters of puppies. One was an Irish setter (who did have to have a C-section) --and the other was a little mixed breed that did just fine on her own. We loved and took care of these puppies 24/7 - got their shots, etc., and off they all went to good homes.

--------------------

I think we are dealing with two groups of people here. The professional breeders (I am referring to the ones who have high quality parents and are hoping to produced high quality show and breeding puppies) - and others of us who simply have pets who have a litter or two.....and breed them regardless of their their own standards.

Like any breed, I think it is totally fair to charge more for a very high quality -near-standard puppy. These people are the ones who work years to produce these little guys. They are simply worth more. (And, I think this is true with any breed.) You can go out and buy a Brittany Spaniel pup for $300 or $350 - or you can search and find the very best, closest-to-standard, little pup possible and pay three times that much....

Nothing justifies some of these prices that are being asked for little Yorkies - they are ask simply because Yorkies are a very expensive popular little breed right now.. and people will pay these prices.

***** If you have a litter of four puppies and get an average of $1400 for each .... you will get $5600 for your "trouble". Even with a C-section (which doesn't usually happen) -- how can you say that it cost this much to care for those little guys.

Why do people expect to be paid for every minute, every hug, and every bite of food or bowl of clean water they give their little pups. And, so what - if you have to stay up and hand feed a little runt for a while. Having puppies isn't a job where you "clock in and out" for every minute you spend caring for them. At least it shouldn't be (and all of this care should be spent on any litter of puppies...not just Yorkies!) Plus a lot of this care and time should enjoyable. It was when I had litters of puppies or kittens It was work, but we all enjoyed it. We hated to see the puppies and kittens go.....

I think you should get a fair price for your expenses ---the ones you actually incur - but not the possibilities of this and that, which often never happen. And, certainly not for every minute of loving (enjoyable) care and the time you give them. All breeds deserve this same care.....even the little mixed breeds.

****** I am sure the price of Yorkies will come down in the future --and, then it will be some other popular little breed that will command and get these ridiculously high prices. If you are a real dog lover and aren't real young, and have followed the prices and popularity of different breeds for 40 or 50 years -- you will see that this has happened over and over again. The popularity and prices of different breeds comes and goes and is constantly changing over time.

I'm sure the actual expenses involved in the litters I had were a little greater than what I got for my puppies -- but that was okay. None of us every expected to make a profit or even be compensated for every penny we spent. We let two of our dogs have litters, loved them, enjoyed the experience of having them, and found good homes for them --- then we got our little girls spayed because over time we realized that this was the more responsible thing to do.

****** A lot of people who raise a litter of puppis do not "spend long long hours researching and learning everything they can." And - if you do, do you really need to be paid for this also!!!!!

I have spent long long hours studying how to raise different flowers in my garden -- (I probably have 15 or more books that I have read over and over again -plus I have spend dozens of hours discussing raising different plants with people). And - I can't tell you how hard I have worked and how much money I have spent..... I know this isn't the best analogy in the world. I just want to point out that we don't need to be paid for every minute we spend doing things that we enjoy doing and learning to do the best job possible.

You "professional breeders" with the highest of standards - go for the gold! I am the first to believe that you deserve to be well rewarded for your efforts. It is a wonderful thing that we have people who unrelentingly strive to maintain the highest of standards in all the different breeds of dogs. I love to watch all of these beautiful animals in the many different dog shows - they are a joy to to watch.

Carol Jean

topknot · 07-30-2006, 01:12 PM

SnowWa - I get your point and agree. I think the price should reflect the quality of the pups - understandable vet prices and food have increased, but the price should reflect the quality of the pup. This is why when I do have a litter each pup is based on the litter's line/parents quality and quality the individual pup has. One pup might be 1500. where another is 2,200 and so on. It all depends on its quality.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that I do all this for my pups because I enjoy it and never do make my money back nor expected. I quess you would consider me a professional, but I still don't have that many litters - (3 litters in 10 years) - I only breed to hopefully have show hopefuls and of course will have some pet qualities in the same litter since hopefuls are rare.

I do agree that regular pets are being breed and the owners do not know what they are doing. They do not really know the standard and have rose colored glasses on in regards to their dogs and want high prices for their pups - is not right. I just saw where someone had a golden yorkie pup and want 2,000 for it and then another had a very terrier coated pup and wanted 3,000 for that pup. Now I understand what SnowWa is trying to say. I agree. Price should reflect the quality!

sashajade · 07-30-2006, 04:29 PM

yep agree on that

thats why i said if the dog has champs in its pedigree then it should go over the set price of say 400 pound.

SnowWa · 07-31-2006, 12:33 AM

QUOTE ----- A litter of pups and vet costs aren't the only things that go into breeding. It is risky....and we all know that "risky jobs" pay more than non-risky jobs in life. And trust me, it is a job. One that demands your time 365 days a year...pups or not. If you worked out what a breeder makes just from the time you breed your female until the time a pup goes (though planning and care of the female continues all year through), it is next to nothing. I'm not saying this is how breeders think...they don't. It is just that once a litter of pups is born, that may be all a buyer sees and therefore thinks it is all profit from there. Think of many different industries where a person puts a lot of time and money and thought into the foundation of a company...we only think of the product they sell and if it is a good deal or not. I'm just saying there is more to it than meets the eye. In addtion, any company needs to put a certain percentage aside for future maintenance and emergencies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't believe this..............

Of course, there is some risk in having a litter of puppies - there always is.. certainly a little more with some of the smaller breeds, but also with any other breed.

To say that we should charge more because it is a "risky job" -- what?
And to call it "a job" --- hardly! - and certainly not 365 days a year.
Plus, what is all this "research stuff" that so many of you have mentioned. I think a lot of us spend a great deal of time learning about our little dogs - we read books and magazines, and spend a lot of time on YorkieTalk. We visit with anyone who can teach us anyting and do everything else we can to learn more. We totally love talking about and learning more about our little Yorkies. It's fun!

One should really go out in the world and put $100,000 of their own money (probably borrowed) into starting a new business - and then work at it 10 or 12 hours a day - 7 days a week for several years. (And spend many sleepless nights because you're afraid that you and your family might not be able to make a success of it)....... I think we'd be a little hard put to compare this with raising a litter of Yorkies.

I can't help but think that the better part of breeding and raising any puppies should be a labor of love -- it's just can't be all that bad.

Those of us who don't even have litters of puppies - spend a lot of money on our dogs and their clothes and their toys and their vet bills -- and we worry about them when they are sick and take care of them 24/7, if necessary. And, we all take care of our little guys 365 days a year whether they are having puppies or not. I even take care of my fish 365 days a year!

I just don't get it?????

Like I said - I've had several litters in my lifetime -- (and one of my dogs did have a C-section) -- but it was never a 365-day a year "job" to me..... and, of course, we sat up with new little puppies most of the night often. I am not a professional breeder at all- but I certainly did enjoy the litters that I had. It was an exciting and happy time for all of my family.

We hear from so many of you here on YT - whose little females are pregnant - or who have just had new litters...... seems to me that most of you are just bursting with happiness and joy as well as pride. I have never heard any of you complain about the work or risk involved.... of course, you worry if there are any problems - but who wouldn't!

I think - all the work we are trying to make out of having an occasional litter is getting a little out of hand..... But - again I feel that those of you who are really professional breeders and raise many litters deserve a lot - because of your expertise and the quality of the dogs you are working so hard to produce.....and the quality of dogs that you do produce.

I certainly want to say that this is not a personal attack - we can disagree with our best friends occasionally -- I'm just disagreeing with some thoughts --

You can all come back and gang up on me - you have my permission!!!!!

Carol Jean

Julz · 07-31-2006, 01:20 AM

Carol Jean,
I went back to try and take that part (risky job) out after a reread it a few minutes later, but it was too late. That isn't how I meant it. I mean that any female is at risk when breeding. I did mention that what I meant by "high paying job" is what it seems like to the buyer when they are purchasing a pup. I also wasn't justifying some of the high prices out there. I only meant there is more than meets the eye as in many cases. I can only speak for myself saying that it is truly a labor of love....I love it and I enjoy it and I help others when I can. There is no need for an attack on anyone as you have mentioned. One of the biggest rewards out of it is the ongoing contact with the new owners saying how much joy that pup (then in time adult) Yorkie has brought to their lives. However, I totally stand behind my original thought that there is more than meets the eye.

SnowWa · 07-31-2006, 12:24 PM

Julz - You made some good points.

I think that usually - raising a litter of puppies is more fun than work (except for the "pee and poop," of course). Often everything works out just fine - with no extraordinary or unexpected problems. Of course, even here routine vet expenses need to be paid - as they should be with all breeds. I don't think there isn't always "a lot more than meets the eye" --- let's remember that there really aren't many people around (especially older people) who have never experienced having a litter of puppies sometime in their lives. And, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what expenses might be involved. Plus, these expenses can quickly be pointed out to people who haven't given it much thought. And, most people readily understand and accept reasonable expenses.

But - then there certainly are times when things don't go the way they should. We can have a sick mother, sick puppies, and many other complications, and a lot of unexpected vet bills and other expenses.

I think that these "unexpected problems and expenses" are one of the main reasons that breeding should be left to breeders. They are working with higher quality puppies and can justifiably charge more and absorb more of these expenses - which helps to even them out over time.

All things being equal - experienced breeders probably have fewer problems and complications that than many other people have.

I suppose that if I had a litter of Yorkies today - regardless of any costs, vet bills, unexpected problems or expenses, etc., I would just look in the paper and charge whatever seems to be a fair amount for my area (which is actually low). I'm not talking about comparing myself to serious breeders or those who are producing high quality, close-to-standard little pups, but rather to people like myself whose pets have had puppies. I might make a little money, break even, or lose a lot. Who knows.....

PS: I know what you mean about not being able to go back and make changes on a post. This has happened to me many times. In fact, I have asked administration to give us a little more time - but they think we have enough. Sometimes I really don't - occasionally, I decide to get on the Internet and research something - and then want to go back and make a change or add to my post - but, of course, there isn't enough time for this.

Thanks for your reply to my post --- Carol Jean

JCarlson2004 · 07-31-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julz

Carol Jean,
I went back to try and take that part (risky job) out after a reread it a few minutes later, but it was too late. That isn't how I meant it. I mean that any female is at risk when breeding. I did mention that what I meant by "high paying job" is what it seems like to the buyer when they are purchasing a pup. I also wasn't justifying some of the high prices out there. I only meant there is more than meets the eye as in many cases. I can only speak for myself saying that it is truly a labor of love....I love it and I enjoy it and I help others when I can. There is no need for an attack on anyone as you have mentioned. One of the biggest rewards out of it is the ongoing contact with the new owners saying how much joy that pup (then in time adult) Yorkie has brought to their lives. However, I totally stand behind my original thought that there is more than meets the eye.

I agree.

I have gotten to know a breeder recently and she has taught me a lot. What if, for example, the mommy gets sick and requires emergency vet care and/or even surgery? Besides paying for that expense, who will nurse the pups round the clock? Those babies will most likely need to be bottle fed ROUND THE CLOCK and that "food" is expensive!! I think a breeder should be compensated for all the TIME and love they give these pups. How could that breeder in good faith leave the house for long periods at a time when she has a littler of babies waiting to be bottled fed? It just can't happen!! Trust me, I'd rather pay more to ensure that I get a baby who as hugged and kissed and spoiled rotten until I bring her home over saving a few pennies and getting a pet shop/puppy mill dog who never received a hug during his first 12 weeks. It makes a big difference to me. But this is just my opinion.

SnowWa · 07-31-2006, 11:19 PM

QUOTE -- I think a breeder should be compensated for all the TIME and love they give these pups.
-----------------------------

These are the remarks that I don't agree with at all. Because - giving "time and love" should be a joy and a pleasure. I believe that all little pups deserve this......even the little pups that might be mixed breeds and may be given away or sold for only $25.

Love and care are not things that we should ever feel that we need to be compensated for. Those of us who have the opportunity to give these gifts to anyone - other people, children, or animals -- are the lucky ones - we always receive more than we give.

And - NO - I don't feel that I should pay more for any little puppy simply because it was loved and cared for. I would hope that all little puppies receive this. They all should. If they don't, the people who had them shouldn't be having puppies in the first place.

It's not a very nice person who has little puppies and doesn't love and care for them until they go to new homes. The breed and potential value of any little puppy should have nothing to do with this.

Carol Jean

JCarlson2004 · 08-01-2006, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowWa

QUOTE -- I think a breeder should be compensated for all the TIME and love they give these pups.
-----------------------------

These are the remarks that I don't agree with at all. Because - giving "time and love" should be a joy and a pleasure. I believe that all little pups deserve this......even the little pups that might be mixed breeds and may be given away or sold for only $25.

Love and care are not things that we should ever feel that we need to be compensated for. Those of us who have the opportunity to give these gifts to anyone - other people, children, or animals -- are the lucky ones - we always receive more than we give.

And - NO - I don't feel that I should pay more for any little puppy simply because it was loved and cared for. I would hope that all little puppies receive this. They all should. If they don't, the people who had them shouldn't be having puppies in the first place.

It's not a very nice person who has little puppies and doesn't love and care for them until they go to new homes. The breed and potential value of any little puppy should have nothing to do with this.

Carol Jean

While I understand this, I respectfully disagree.

I think someone who puts all their time and effort to raise and socalize their pups should be compensated (because there are A LOT of bad breeders who do NOT do this). And yes, to me time does count ... for example, my firm pays me BY THE HOUR for the time I put in -- so if I work 10 hours less a week, I will receive less pay. I would rather pay a good, honest breeder more for a well adjusted and socialized pup then go to a pet store and buy a sick puppy who has never been hugged and kissed and was ripped away from his mommy at 6 weeks of age.

Now I am not sure what we are talking about in price range ... if someone charges $10,000 for a pup then heck yeah I think they are overcharing!! That's just ridiculous! And I have seen lots of websites that charge that kind of money and my head spins when I read it!! And when I say breeder, I am talking about 1 person who does EVERYTHING in their home. I don't mean a puppy mill or pet store that has a staff of people just doing the bare minimum. But if a breeder asks for a reasonable amount of money (based on taking care of mama dog, delivery of pups [not to mention possible c-section or even losing the mama dog], dew claws, tail dock, puppy shots, worming, vet visits, emergency visits [they can happen], food and water [even round the clock bottle feeding in case the mama dog gets sick], etc. and all of the other things that I am not mentioning because to be honest, I don't know all of what else is involved because I don't breed, but if a good breeder does all of this and invests their love and time in addition and socializes the pups, they yes they deserve to be compensated in my opinion.

I don't think there are enough good, honest breeders out there. I just feel sorry for all those pups who suffer at the hands of bad breeders/puppy millers.

07-30-2006, 07:27 AM	#16
sashajade YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: kent england Posts: 1,646	i do think breeders should make some money from doing it but if i bought 3 chi and breed all of them and they all have 4 pups each and i sold them i would make about 12.000 pound, thats all my debts gone and you cant tell me it would cost anywhere near 12.000 pound in vet costs for those litters. thats just silly money __________________ Facebook group yorkies & small terriers worlwide needing fur-ever homes & deathrow Zac Brandi Suki

07-30-2006, 08:11 AM	#18
Lila Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 70	Income versus Dogs? I know a family on welfare who own a Yorkie as well as a pit bull and a poodle --- all purebreds. Being on social assistsance should not be an issue! If it is possible, and someone wants a dog, their income should not bar them. I am on a disability-a very low income-and have my Yorkshire Terrier. I am hoping to acquire another as a playmate for her, but the cost of a puppy is more than I receive in a month. As far as maintenance, I have an understanding vet-he knows I will pay albeit slowly, and in emergency, do have family who will help. I do the grooming and basic care myself; she eats excellent dog food-less than $12.00/month. To me, having a dog is essential; she is why I get up in the morning.

07-30-2006, 12:51 PM	#22
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	QUOTE --- "But when you think of price you are not just paying for a pup you will own for around 15 years, and a companion, but you are paying for vet care, shots, hours it takes to be with the momma dog while whelping the litter, food/feeding, cleaning and changing pads or papers, supplies ~pillows, blankets, and the long long hours that the breeder did researching and learning all she could to have good quality pups. It is not just for your one pup, but what quality and care the breeder gave to her mom and the sire to produce this healthy happy puppy." ---------------- Does the above apply only to Yorkies --- or to any breed of dog???? If you factor all the above into the price of a pup -- then all puppies (regardless of the breed) --- should cost nearly the same amount of money.....as well as some mixed breeds. All puppies should receive a lot of loving care and visit the vet for their shots and special care, if they are sick, etc.......not just Yorkies. Years ago - I raised two litters of puppies. One was an Irish setter (who did have to have a C-section) --and the other was a little mixed breed that did just fine on her own. We loved and took care of these puppies 24/7 - got their shots, etc., and off they all went to good homes. -------------------- I think we are dealing with two groups of people here. The professional breeders (I am referring to the ones who have high quality parents and are hoping to produced high quality show and breeding puppies) - and others of us who simply have pets who have a litter or two.....and breed them regardless of their their own standards. Like any breed, I think it is totally fair to charge more for a very high quality -near-standard puppy. These people are the ones who work years to produce these little guys. They are simply worth more. (And, I think this is true with any breed.) You can go out and buy a Brittany Spaniel pup for $300 or $350 - or you can search and find the very best, closest-to-standard, little pup possible and pay three times that much.... Nothing justifies some of these prices that are being asked for little Yorkies - they are ask simply because Yorkies are a very expensive popular little breed right now.. and people will pay these prices. *** If you have a litter of four puppies and get an average of $1400 for each .... you will get $5600 for your "trouble". Even with a C-section (which doesn't usually happen) -- how can you say that it cost this much to care for those little guys. Why do people expect to be paid for every minute, every hug, and every bite of food or bowl of clean water they give their little pups. And, so what - if you have to stay up and hand feed a little runt for a while. Having puppies isn't a job where you "clock in and out" for every minute you spend caring for them. At least it shouldn't be (and all of this care should be spent on any litter of puppies...not just Yorkies!) Plus a lot of this care and time should enjoyable. It was when I had litters of puppies or kittens It was work, but we all enjoyed it. We hated to see the puppies and kittens go..... I think you should get a fair price for your expenses ---the ones you actually incur - but not the possibilities of this and that, which often never happen. And, certainly not for every minute of loving (enjoyable) care and the time you give them. All breeds deserve this same care.....even the little mixed breeds. ** I am sure the price of Yorkies will come down in the future --and, then it will be some other popular little breed that will command and get these ridiculously high prices. If you are a real dog lover and aren't real young, and have followed the prices and popularity of different breeds for 40 or 50 years -- you will see that this has happened over and over again. The popularity and prices of different breeds comes and goes and is constantly changing over time. I'm sure the actual expenses involved in the litters I had were a little greater than what I got for my puppies -- but that was okay. None of us every expected to make a profit or even be compensated for every penny we spent. We let two of our dogs have litters, loved them, enjoyed the experience of having them, and found good homes for them --- then we got our little girls spayed because over time we realized that this was the more responsible thing to do. **** A lot of people who raise a litter of puppis do not "spend long long hours researching and learning everything they can." And - if you do, do you really need to be paid for this also!!!!! I have spent long long hours studying how to raise different flowers in my garden -- (I probably have 15 or more books that I have read over and over again -plus I have spend dozens of hours discussing raising different plants with people). And - I can't tell you how hard I have worked and how much money I have spent..... I know this isn't the best analogy in the world. I just want to point out that we don't need to be paid for every minute we spend doing things that we enjoy doing and learning to do the best job possible. You "professional breeders" with the highest of standards - go for the gold! I am the first to believe that you deserve to be well rewarded for your efforts. It is a wonderful thing that we have people who unrelentingly strive to maintain the highest of standards in all the different breeds of dogs. I love to watch all of these beautiful animals in the many different dog shows - they are a joy to to watch. Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.

07-30-2006, 01:12 PM	#23
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	SnowWa - I get your point and agree. I think the price should reflect the quality of the pups - understandable vet prices and food have increased, but the price should reflect the quality of the pup. This is why when I do have a litter each pup is based on the litter's line/parents quality and quality the individual pup has. One pup might be 1500. where another is 2,200 and so on. It all depends on its quality. I guess the point I was trying to make is that I do all this for my pups because I enjoy it and never do make my money back nor expected. I quess you would consider me a professional, but I still don't have that many litters - (3 litters in 10 years) - I only breed to hopefully have show hopefuls and of course will have some pet qualities in the same litter since hopefuls are rare. I do agree that regular pets are being breed and the owners do not know what they are doing. They do not really know the standard and have rose colored glasses on in regards to their dogs and want high prices for their pups - is not right. I just saw where someone had a golden yorkie pup and want 2,000 for it and then another had a very terrier coated pup and wanted 3,000 for that pup. Now I understand what SnowWa is trying to say. I agree. Price should reflect the quality! Last edited by topknot; 07-30-2006 at 01:14 PM.

07-30-2006, 04:29 PM	#24
sashajade YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: kent england Posts: 1,646	yep agree on that thats why i said if the dog has champs in its pedigree then it should go over the set price of say 400 pound. __________________ Facebook group yorkies & small terriers worlwide needing fur-ever homes & deathrow Zac Brandi Suki

07-30-2006, 08:03 AM	#17
Julz Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 4,347	A litter of pups and vet costs aren't the only things that go into breeding. It is risky....and we all know that "risky jobs" pay more than non-risky jobs in life. And trust me, it is a job. One that demands your time 365 days a year...pups or not. If you worked out what a breeder makes just from the time you breed your female until the time a pup goes (though planning and care of the female continues all year through), it is next to nothing. I'm not saying this is how breeders think...they don't. It is just that once a litter of pups is born, that may be all a buyer sees and therefore thinks it is all profit from there. Think of many different industries where a person puts a lot of time and money and thought into the foundation of a company...we only think of the product they sell and if it is a good deal or not. I'm just saying there is more to it than meets the eye. In addtion, any company needs to put a certain percentage aside for future maintenance and emergencies.

07-30-2006, 09:48 AM	#20
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	Julz - you are right. Reputable breeders for one thing do not have pups that often and most of their time is devoted to their dogs. And yes there are so many more hours into breeding and raising a pup to get it ready for its new home. And yes, we do have to set money aside for emergencies for next time or to buy what ever the dogs need at the time. I am always in the negative if you count what is brought in and taken for the dogs. I always have to use my own money and a lot of it. For starters main expense is ~ how much you dogs cost - 3,000. each average, showing expensives (leads, show entries, shampoos, bows, conditioners, scissors, brushes, combs, etc..) travel to shows (gas, hotels, food, car insurance, car up keep), food, vet bills, toys, pillows, blankets, dog club dues, travel to club meetings and car expensives, handling classes, travel and car expensives, travel to and from vets, time from work, staying up at night to make sure pups and mom okay and time it takes to whelp a litter (most are born at night), time researching and learning, magaizines, and yorkie books, AKC paper work (registrations), etc.... I am also considering buying a camper to go to shows, so I would not have a hotel expense. And yes, I count showing for me important in raising and breeding since I want to make sure my yorkies are of excellent quality to breed. You learn a lot by attending and entering shows!

07-30-2006, 10:09 AM	#21
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	I forgot to add in the cost of your sire and dam to be tested before breeding to make sure they are not passing on any undesirable health problems - Laxtating pedellas, liver shunts, heart problems, vd, etc...

07-31-2006, 12:33 AM	#25
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	QUOTE ----- A litter of pups and vet costs aren't the only things that go into breeding. It is risky....and we all know that "risky jobs" pay more than non-risky jobs in life. And trust me, it is a job. One that demands your time 365 days a year...pups or not. If you worked out what a breeder makes just from the time you breed your female until the time a pup goes (though planning and care of the female continues all year through), it is next to nothing. I'm not saying this is how breeders think...they don't. It is just that once a litter of pups is born, that may be all a buyer sees and therefore thinks it is all profit from there. Think of many different industries where a person puts a lot of time and money and thought into the foundation of a company...we only think of the product they sell and if it is a good deal or not. I'm just saying there is more to it than meets the eye. In addtion, any company needs to put a certain percentage aside for future maintenance and emergencies. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't believe this.............. Of course, there is some risk in having a litter of puppies - there always is.. certainly a little more with some of the smaller breeds, but also with any other breed. To say that we should charge more because it is a "risky job" -- what? And to call it "a job" --- hardly! - and certainly not 365 days a year. Plus, what is all this "research stuff" that so many of you have mentioned. I think a lot of us spend a great deal of time learning about our little dogs - we read books and magazines, and spend a lot of time on YorkieTalk. We visit with anyone who can teach us anyting and do everything else we can to learn more. We totally love talking about and learning more about our little Yorkies. It's fun! One should really go out in the world and put $100,000 of their own money (probably borrowed) into starting a new business - and then work at it 10 or 12 hours a day - 7 days a week for several years. (And spend many sleepless nights because you're afraid that you and your family might not be able to make a success of it)....... I think we'd be a little hard put to compare this with raising a litter of Yorkies. I can't help but think that the better part of breeding and raising any puppies should be a labor of love -- it's just can't be all that bad. Those of us who don't even have litters of puppies - spend a lot of money on our dogs and their clothes and their toys and their vet bills -- and we worry about them when they are sick and take care of them 24/7, if necessary. And, we all take care of our little guys 365 days a year whether they are having puppies or not. I even take care of my fish 365 days a year! I just don't get it????? Like I said - I've had several litters in my lifetime -- (and one of my dogs did have a C-section) -- but it was never a 365-day a year "job" to me..... and, of course, we sat up with new little puppies most of the night often. I am not a professional breeder at all- but I certainly did enjoy the litters that I had. It was an exciting and happy time for all of my family. We hear from so many of you here on YT - whose little females are pregnant - or who have just had new litters...... seems to me that most of you are just bursting with happiness and joy as well as pride. I have never heard any of you complain about the work or risk involved.... of course, you worry if there are any problems - but who wouldn't! I think - all the work we are trying to make out of having an occasional litter is getting a little out of hand..... But - again I feel that those of you who are really professional breeders and raise many litters deserve a lot - because of your expertise and the quality of the dogs you are working so hard to produce.....and the quality of dogs that you do produce. I certainly want to say that this is not a personal attack - we can disagree with our best friends occasionally -- I'm just disagreeing with some thoughts -- You can all come back and gang up on me - you have my permission!!!!! Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.

07-31-2006, 01:20 AM	#26
Julz Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 4,347	Carol Jean, I went back to try and take that part (risky job) out after a reread it a few minutes later, but it was too late. That isn't how I meant it. I mean that any female is at risk when breeding. I did mention that what I meant by "high paying job" is what it seems like to the buyer when they are purchasing a pup. I also wasn't justifying some of the high prices out there. I only meant there is more than meets the eye as in many cases. I can only speak for myself saying that it is truly a labor of love....I love it and I enjoy it and I help others when I can. There is no need for an attack on anyone as you have mentioned. One of the biggest rewards out of it is the ongoing contact with the new owners saying how much joy that pup (then in time adult) Yorkie has brought to their lives. However, I totally stand behind my original thought that there is more than meets the eye.

07-31-2006, 12:24 PM	#27
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	Julz - You made some good points. I think that usually - raising a litter of puppies is more fun than work (except for the "pee and poop," of course). Often everything works out just fine - with no extraordinary or unexpected problems. Of course, even here routine vet expenses need to be paid - as they should be with all breeds. I don't think there isn't always "a lot more than meets the eye" --- let's remember that there really aren't many people around (especially older people) who have never experienced having a litter of puppies sometime in their lives. And, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what expenses might be involved. Plus, these expenses can quickly be pointed out to people who haven't given it much thought. And, most people readily understand and accept reasonable expenses. But - then there certainly are times when things don't go the way they should. We can have a sick mother, sick puppies, and many other complications, and a lot of unexpected vet bills and other expenses. I think that these "unexpected problems and expenses" are one of the main reasons that breeding should be left to breeders. They are working with higher quality puppies and can justifiably charge more and absorb more of these expenses - which helps to even them out over time. All things being equal - experienced breeders probably have fewer problems and complications that than many other people have. I suppose that if I had a litter of Yorkies today - regardless of any costs, vet bills, unexpected problems or expenses, etc., I would just look in the paper and charge whatever seems to be a fair amount for my area (which is actually low). I'm not talking about comparing myself to serious breeders or those who are producing high quality, close-to-standard little pups, but rather to people like myself whose pets have had puppies. I might make a little money, break even, or lose a lot. Who knows..... PS: I know what you mean about not being able to go back and make changes on a post. This has happened to me many times. In fact, I have asked administration to give us a little more time - but they think we have enough. Sometimes I really don't - occasionally, I decide to get on the Internet and research something - and then want to go back and make a change or add to my post - but, of course, there isn't enough time for this. Thanks for your reply to my post --- Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.

07-31-2006, 11:19 PM	#29
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	QUOTE -- I think a breeder should be compensated for all the TIME and love they give these pups. ----------------------------- These are the remarks that I don't agree with at all. Because - giving "time and love" should be a joy and a pleasure. I believe that all little pups deserve this......even the little pups that might be mixed breeds and may be given away or sold for only $25. Love and care are not things that we should ever feel that we need to be compensated for. Those of us who have the opportunity to give these gifts to anyone - other people, children, or animals -- are the lucky ones - we always receive more than we give. And - NO - I don't feel that I should pay more for any little puppy simply because it was loved and cared for. I would hope that all little puppies receive this. They all should. If they don't, the people who had them shouldn't be having puppies in the first place. It's not a very nice person who has little puppies and doesn't love and care for them until they go to new homes. The breed and potential value of any little puppy should have nothing to do with this. Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.