I'm just going to write a letter and then end it, at least in my mind. I think the situation deserves being reported but other than that, I'd rather just put it behind me, lol.

I'm glad you laughed! :) Writing is one of my better talents and I enjoy being able to communicate my stories in ways that are both truthful and enjoyable to the reader. Photography is my hobby and my career and I enjoy communicating with pictures, but when I can't, I try even harder to help whoever is reading what I'm writing be able to picture it in their mind as it happened to me. So, anyway, again thank you! :) I play the situation back in my mind and wonder how things would have gone if I started running towards the back of the store instead of the front/exit.....and the manager would have had to call more security guards and I'd be zig-zagging around the aisles, running so fast that I knock things off the racks and the security guards trip over them like a scene from Home Alone.....lol, I would have never done it but it's fun to imagine in my mind, ROTF.

thanks for that mental picture that is funny you running through Target with your furbaby thinking "what is this crazy lady doing" LOL. I totally understand your point and why you are upset. I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago about my neice being upset because my puppy pee'd in her apartment and I think people thought that I was mad she got upset instead I was really mad because of the way she handled things. Stores have the right to decide if animals are allowed, but they also have the oligation to be considerate when a customer is simply doing what was asked of them and that's leave with their dog. Like I said in my last post I would file a complaint to the manager. Good luck with everything;)

[QUOTE=winnismom]Ummm ok what am I missing here?? Brandy I have no idea why you quoted me and proceed to type what i'm saying is insane. I think maybe you are the one who is a little confused. My quote was in response to Kathryn V about her being serious or joking in her post. Not sure what you're thinking![/QUOTE



Sorry I was quoting the person you qouted.

That's terrible. What are the laws there on assault? In the UK, if you put your hands on someone in a public place (i.e. an office, store, library, etc.), it is constituted as assault and a matter for the police. He definitely shouldn't have been putting his hands on you and he definitely over-reacted. What a twerp

Good for you Val. I know what you mean. You felt like you were being treated like a criminal b/c you brought a doggy into a store. Granted, rules are rules, but don't treat someone like they committed a crime b/c in my understanding, it's not a crime to bring a dog into a store. A rule, maybe, a crime, no. All he had to do was politely ask you to leave, and that's it. I had that problem before. Don't treat me like I'm some criminal. I'm a customer. You treat me with respect, and you get it back. Val, if that was me, I wouldn't have been as nice as you. He probably WOULD have had to call the cops by the time I got done with him. :rolleyes: Please let us know exactly what you decide to do and keep us updated! Good luck hon! ;)

If I acted like that in a restaurant when I was young, my mom would have smacked the living crap out of me!!! And you know what? I would have deserved it.

Baby Fidgette - My parents were about as liberal as they come - but out in public - it was different - and I would have been in big trouble also. Regardless of my age ...if I had been two years old, I would have been marched home and would have been in "big big trouble." And, I would have deserved it also.

I think when we see parents with the attitude "that their children can do anything they want and behave any way they want wherever they want" ----- from this, we know why their children behave the way they do. It really is their parent's fault. It's called "spoiling....." Actually, it's worse than spoiling. It is parents with no respect for other people.

I am sure we all know that children do have "their moments," but these are the times when we need to take on the responsibility of being a parent. Mine generally got a good talking to and were taken home. If they had become sick and didn't feel well, I may have skipped the talking to, but they were still taken home as quickly as possible.

At a funeral once - I saw a complete stranger get up and cross the aisle and offer to take a screaming little child outside for its mother ---who was doing nothing about it. She said, "No" and let her child scream for another 10 minutes before she finally went outside....and I think this was only because so many people were turning around looking at her...

To each his own - but I have no respect for anyone who allows their children to behave in this manner when they are out in public. And at a funeral.....this has to be the most disrespectful thing in the world.

Actually - what we are talking about now - is far far worse than having a little puppy in a store....no comparison ... even though I don't do that either.


Carol Jean

lol! I am so confused, I no longer know if this thread is about the rude manager at Target, taking dogs into stores, or taking kids into restaurants! :)

But, I might as well add my two cents to the fracas!

The manager - In my opinion, while you probably shouldn't have been in there, HE went way overboard. You certainly should complain. However, keep in mind this guy must be in serious need of proving himself if he attempted to manhandle you and your 4 lb. dog.

The rules about dogs - I think MORE places should let them in, and I think EVERY place should post their policy...then unsuspecting customers who have the idea that their dogs are welcome (and gee, Target sells alot of pet stuff, specifically for little dogs) won't be in need of an escort out. AND, if it's clearly posted on the door and someone chooses to take them in anyway, then they are breaking the rules and should leave quietly.

Out of Control Children - Children are expected to be children. But out of control children are ruining everyone elses experience. I applaud Carol Jean (i think it was her...I'm really quite confused:confused: ) Someone said that because children are human they have a right to be in a restaurant even if they are out of control. I strongly disagree. Any person who is out of control, be it adult or child, should be asked to leave. And parents who think there child's right to a temper tantrum and their right to continue shopping is helping their child become a responsible adult, get over it. Children need to have rules, and parents need to be consistent. I'm sure Carol Jean's children RARELY if ever threw a fit in a store/restaurant, etc., because they learned early on what was expected of them. And I'm betting they've grown up to be mature RESPONSIBLE adults and loving parents (i think she mentioned grandkids).:woof:


Back to Target. I've found that most places that sell little doggie dresses encourage me to bring my girl in to try stuff on. I too, assumed Target was pet-friendly...at least in the pet section, until YORKIETALK saved the day. It was here that I read about their pet policy, not on Targets door.

Thankfully, I'd never ventured in there with her.

Sorry Gingergirl's mom and Val, I changed the subject about children. My fault. :( ;)

I disagree with you and I think most people here would as well. While it may be "NATURAL" for a child to have a so-called melt down, it is certainly not natural for the parent to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of other people's space/time. There is no reason/circumstance for any parent to stand there and continue finishing their meal or shopping while the kid ruins the atmosphere for everyone. In my opinion, it's selfish to stay in a situation which is disruptive just so you can make a point about how natural it is for a child to have a meltdown. I have a nephew whom I love more than anything, but he was a collick baby, so he would just start up out of nowhere. He would be screaming for a mere 30 seconds before we were out of there. It's called respect and consideration. I'm not attacking you personally, but it's attitudes like that allow parents to think that it's ok to let your child do whatever they want at home and in public because children are children. The show Nanny 911 is a perfect example of what happens when your child is allowed to be "natural".:eek:

I agree Nobie!

I also agree! Love my three children and 8 grandchildren and greatgrandbaby (due June 10) more than life itself. I adore them and I always wanted them to know how to behave and never be an annoyance to anyone else in a public place. I wanted them to grow up to be responsible, considerate, compassionate adults. So far it's working.

Although the love I have for my little 5 lb Yorkie is not to be compared to the love I have for my children & grandchildren, I do love her and like to take her places sometimes but I would not want her to be an annoyance to anyone. She is usually in her purse where no one even knows I have her or sometimes I will take her to an outside sporting event of my grandchildren.
In no way has she ever bothered anyone. There are places I would not take her, like an eating place.

I totally agree with you other people go out to eat in some cases to get a break from their children the last thing they want to hear is someone else's child screaming. I have 3 neices and 3 nephews (and I hope to be a mother someday) but I would be out the door in no time if they started acting up.

WOW!!! What a thread! Val, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in Target...the mental picture that was posted of you running through the store brought a smile to my face!!!

As for kids in public or at restaurants, etc...I have a 6 year old who is pretty rambunctious - well mannered - but rambunctious. He never really has any kind of tantrums in public but he isn't perfectly behaved all the time either, especially when I have to drag him on errands and stuff. I think a lot of times we expect so much from kids that it puts a lot of stress on them. Maybe more than you can imaging and truth be told, they cannot control themselves all the time. Why WOULD you ask a child to control themselves and behave perfectly ALL THE TIME IN EVERY SITUATION??? As an adult, DO YOU?????? I think at times adults look at children and think they have to act like mini adults and that's just not possible. As adults expect children to be courteous to them, so too should adults be courteous to children. I was once on the bus with my son and he was talking and laughing...he was kinda loud but whatever. The woman in front of us turned around, shushed him, looked at me and told me that he was making too much noise and it was disturbing her cell phone conversation :eek: I told her off for shushing my son and also told her I didn't give a crap about her cell phone conversation. I then told my son that he DID NOT have to be quiet to accomodate someone's cell phone conversation in a public place.

You have to teach them to be respectful BUT I will not allow my child to feel as though his emotions and feelings are less important than an adults.

I too would have been pissed if someone turned around and shushed my nephew or my kid (future kid anyway). It's just as bad to be on a cell phone on a bus/train. I think it's ok to let a kid be a kid at home, but in public, kids should be well behaved. They should use quieter voices to avoid annoying those who came somewhere for a quiet/peaceful evening. I love kids, adore them, but when I go to a restaurant, the last thing I want, is a loud, misbehaving kid who's parents can't control or who's parents choose not to say anything. I think parents need to take more responsibility for their children's actions in public, instead of just saying kids will be kids. That, to me is not acceptable and if my kid was difficult to quiet down or calm down in public, I simply would leave or not take them until they learn. Just my opinion. Gerry this was in no way aimed at you, you know I love ya :p

OMG!! Nobi, are you kidding??? I know you aren;t aiming anything at ME...nor was I doing it to you. I was just saying that kids have feelings too:p . I agree with you about the restaurants. When we go out as a family, we go to kid friendly places and we are perfectly clear with The Boy about how he is expected to behave.

When Big Daddy and I go out together if we have a sitter or something, yes, I certainly do not want to be distracted by unruly children. Plus, when we're playing footsie and feeding each other oysters...well that's just something the kids should be seeing!

Besides I like The Boy, he's interesting to me..hehe..and cute like his daddy. What we do with my nephew is take his small dvd player with us to restaurants to keep him occupied, otherwise he's really well behaved but he gets bored. But with his DVD's playing we could be there for a couple of hours and he won't care..lol..As for the footsie action, the booths are the best for those types of behaviors..lol

LOL....me too!


Francie

We really shouldn't compare our children to our pets.

When my kids were young I tried my best to teach them good public behavior, which meant eating at a lot of LOUD restaurants so they didn't disturb anyone. As they got older we moved on to quieter places and they knew how to act in public.

or they missed out.

Sometimes I had to stay where I was with them, and work through it. Like grocery stores. Not fair to me or the the store to leave a cart full of groceries and just walk out. One time my son (age 2) went ballistic over a ball he saw near the checkout counter. He screamed so loud, pounded the floor, made himself heavy...it was a memorable moment to say the least. I told him No, then just ignored his behavior while I wrote the check. The cashier was really impressed. She said most people would just buy the stupid BALL.

Entirely different with pets. If shelby wanted a ball, I would buy her 3. :p

I'm sorry...but as someone who works in the "Service Industry"..and is also a loving Aunt to tons of Nieces and Nephews...inflicting your "parenting decisions" on innocent people who have to endure these "meltdowns" in a Public Place is inappropriate...and does a HUGE disservice to your child. The only thing being taught is that other people's feelings have no consideration, which follows them everwhere they go...at school...in the workplace..in relationships. Show me the adults that people "just can't stand"...I'll show you children that were never taught respect for others...or boundaries. JMHO

Francie

I was very surprised when I read this thread!, because Bruce and I routinely shop at Target together, and never have been asked to leave even when I have just been carrying him in my arms. The clerks are always friendly, and usually pet him, etc. However, we have been asked to leave many other stores, which we always do without complaint. Rules are rules, and I would never bring Bruce back to a store I found out was not pet friendly. Rules or no rules, I would be incensed if a store clerk or manager laid their hands on me! A simple "we do not allow dogs, please leave, and come again without your dog," should always be sufficient....

As for kids I agree you cannot compare them to dogs. Yes, kids should be allowed more places, but they should also be made to behave in a reasonable manner. No one can control their children 100% of the time, but once misbehavior starts they surely can do something to attempt to remedy it...I do not have kids, so I cannot say I fully understand or can totally sympathize with parents when their kids go wild in public. BUT I do not think it is my responsibility to sympathize with them...Rather it is their responsibility to try their best to not put others in an uncomfortable situation, at least within reason...For example a few months ago I was on a far from full flight to San Francisco from Seattle (not a horribly long flight). I was seated immediately in front of who I estimate to be a five year old boy. For the first hour of the flight he kicked my seat the entire way and threw little bits of paper over the seat onto me...I waited 1/2 hour to even turn around. Then I casually just glanced back at the mother...She shot daggers right at me. When it became unbearable I said to her "I know it must be hard to travel with kids, but would it be possible for you to try to keep your son from throwing things on me and kicking the seat." She basically said no and told me her son was very "spunky" and said "surely you must agree this is better than him crying?" He stopped for a while then he began throwing the ice from his juice or whatever he had on me and the man next to me. I then pushed the call button and asked the flight attendant if I could move. The mother became well what I would call enraged. She cussed me out in front of the flight attended, other passengers and her son. I moved. But this is the sort of thing that makes me inclined it is is okay for businesses of certain types to exclude children, not because having kids around is so bad, but having parents with no sense of common curtosy or decent social behavior is awful.

very well put.:thumbup: :thumbup:

ding, ding, ding - here, ,here!!!

And Nobi...I agree, a DVD is goooooood, haven't thought of that yet! We usually do gameboy or leapster. Hours of quiet for those around you!

Well said I agree 200 percent!!!!

I think any one who has posted about children and don't have children don't have a right to say how they would act or respond to there child acting up in public. You DON'T know what its like untill it is your child and you don't knwo how you'll react untill you have a child. Those with nieces and newphews NOT the same thing at all. My views were much diffrnet before I had kids, but not now. My daughter is very well behaved in public but she still acts up from time to time and I could care less what others think or feel during that moment. My attention is her not them. I teach my daughter to be good in public but that is fr me not for anyone else. I may be selfish but I don't care, we pay taxes we deserve to eat and shop when and where we want no matter what. That does'nt mean I would let my child go crazy in public but a little tantrum or crying is nothing to drop your cart in an isle for or to leave in the middle of dinner for. I have never personally had any one say anything to me about my kids acting up because it is rare, but I can promise you this if they ever did they would be leaving with a fat lip! I think everyone should just mind there own bussiness. So many people who have NO KIDS are judgmental towards those who do like they would be so much better at it, untill you walk a day in a parents shoes you have no room to comment. PERIOD!!

I don't think you are being fair to those of us who mention that we have neices and nephews especially since my neice and nephew both live with me and have since they were very small. So I am really the only "Mom" they know, and when they were younger they knew better. It wasn't for anyone else that I wanted them to be quiet and act like they had some home training necessarily it was more for them to know that they should be considerate of other people, and to know that other people should not have to deal with their tantrums. Believe me no one's child is perfect and I am not claiming that the children I raised are either, but I can tell you that wherever we were if they started to cut up they knew we would be out the door.

QUOTE: I think any one who has posted about children and don't have children don't have a right to say how they would act or respond to there child acting up in public. You DON'T know what its like untill it is your child and you don't knwo how you'll react untill you have a child. Those with nieces and newphews NOT the same thing at all. My views were much diffrnet before I had kids, but not now. My daughter is very well behaved in public but she still acts up from time to time and I could care less what others think or feel during that moment. My attention is her not them. I teach my daughter to be good in public but that is fr me not for anyone else. I may be selfish but I don't care, we pay taxes we deserve to eat and shop when and where we want no matter what. That does'nt mean I would let my child go crazy in public but a little tantrum or crying is nothing to drop your cart in an isle for or to leave in the middle of dinner for. I have never personally had any one say anything to me about my kids acting up because it is rare, but I can promise you this if they ever did they would be leaving with a fat lip! I think everyone should just mind there own bussiness. So many people who have NO KIDS are judgmental towards those who do like they would be so much better at it, untill you walk a day in a parents shoes you have no room to comment. PERIOD!!----------------------------------------------------------

Brandi - you are something else! I know a few people who share your views - but not many. And I couldn't disagree with you more.

And - obviously from the many posts we have read - a lot of people whose children might be misbehaving or causing others to be uncomfortable -- would just leave on thier own - without being asked. I would be embarrassed if anyone every asked me to leave anyplace because my children were bothering people.

And, of course people without children have a right to comment on what they might do. Some of the most children-loving people I know are people who have never had children of their own. People's values and their respect for other people's welfare doesn't change because they have or don't have children. We are all what we are - children or no children.......

The same goes for our pets. I think those of us who care about and have respect for other people - don't want our pets causing undue discomfort for others either.

I respect other peoples rights, privacy, property, and comfort. This has nothing to do with my having children or pets. I would feel the way I do whether I had pets or children or didn't have them. And, hopefully, if I had pets, or even more so children, they would learn my values because I believe they are the way we should be. I believe this strongly.

To each his own............

Carol Jean

Well said, Carol Jean. I have children and grandchildren and my job for the last 31 years has been child related. I work with children everyday and believe me you have to love children to do what I have done for so many years.
No child is perfect and we don't expect them to be. Any child will act up and misbehave sometimes but it doesn't take long being around children to discern which child is allowed to "do their own thing" and which child is taught how to behave, manners and consideration and respect for others.

In years past, when a child got in trouble at school or on the school bus, etc. they knew they would probably get into trouble at home also. Nowadays, so many children are disrespectul and smartmouthed to the teachers, bus drivers, and Para's. Schools have many more problems with behavior than in the past. Most of it is due to the fact that they are not taught all of the above at home and because they know the parents will not back the adults in charge. It always seems to be someone else's fault except their child. They will never make their child take responsibility for their actions.

I agree totally and would just like to add either people don't make their child responsible or it's the old faithful "well he/she is just a child." I always say just remember that child grows up to be an adult someday, that can be scary to think about.

First of all, as a public forum I have a right to post whatever I want, and not you or anyone else can tell me otherwise. I may not have children but I have a nephew who lives with my folks, whom I take out all the time. He's 3, so yes he has his meltdowns, but guess what? Being that I'm a considerate person who is also teaching him a lesson, if he misbehaves in public, it is unacceptable. He learned that real quick and he knows if he wants to go out, how he is expected to behave. My sister has instilled that in him and I practice it as well. If kids are misbehaving in public I would hate to see what they do in your home. When kids are not taught about consideration and respect for others by the parents, no doubt, these kids will be a problem for society. These are kids that unfortunately the rest of us have to deal with in public whether it be at our kids/niece/nephew's school or in the future. These are the kids who are disruptive in school and other social situations. Just like you are a tax paying citizen who deserves to shop, eat and do what you want, so are other people. Everyone else pays taxes and deserves to eat, and shop in peace without a kid screaming in their ears with their parents doing nothing about because they think, they are the only ones that exist on this planet. I love kids and I am understanding about kids in public, but there comes a time, when the misbehaving gets to a level that is unacceptable in public. A little discipline and taking responsibility for your child's behavior goes a long way.