YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community


Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us.

Go Back   YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community > YorkieTalk > General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-19-2006, 07:12 PM   #1
Donating Yorkie Yakker
 
mhorst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 177
Angry Help!! It's Yorkie Wars at our House!!

Our daughter's 8 year old Yorkie, Chase, has about had his fill of our 6.5 month old Yorkie, Zoe who's about had it with Chase!!! They've had their ups and downs since we brought Zoe home, lots of jealousy and resentment.....but today has been awful!! Zoe always sleeps with us and a couple of nights ago, my husband tried to put Chase in bed with us, and I warned him there would be a dog fight , and sure enough there was. Today, Chase tried to get into Zoe's crate, I think there must have been a piece of leftover treat in there, and Zoe wouldn't let him in. I wasn't home, but from what I heard, quite a fight insued. I've been trying to help them learn to be friends, and rare occasions they do play, but most of the time, when they pass each other there are snarls and growls. Zoe will sometimes get after Chase and keep barking and jumping at him until he's had all he can stand & he growls and bites at her. Zoe can hold her own even though Chase is about 4 times her size.

I don't expect any one here to solve this problem for me. I just had to vent!!

We love them both and just wish they would bet along!!! They fight worse than our daughters ever did!!!
__________________
Zoe's Mom & Chase's Gram
http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=257369
mhorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Welcome Guest!
Not Registered?

Join today and remove this ad!

Old 04-19-2006, 09:59 PM   #2
YT 6000 Club Member
 
fasteddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,238
Default

Oh, poor Zoe and Chase! It sounds like they both want to be "top dog" of the house. Is there anything they like to do together at all besides fight? They're just so adorable it's hard to believe they can fight like that. I really hope they can get along soon for ya!
__________________
YODA & WINKY R ::: RIP Winky ::: RIP Yoda!
fasteddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 11:03 PM   #3
My2Pearls Chelsey & Chanel
YT Donator
 
Chelsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N
Posts: 4,097
Default

Sorry to hear they fight. Maybe they will get along better as Zoe gets a little older. My friend's 2 yorkies dont get along at all and they used to have big fights, now they just ignore each other.
__________________
Proud member of the crazy club
Chelsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 02:52 AM   #4
YT 1000 Club Member
 
ilovelouie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mass
Posts: 1,762
Default

I agree with the person that said you should try and find something that they like to do together. Perhaps you could start taking them for lots and lots of walks together if you arent already. I just bought a "coupler" for walking my dogs on one leash and it is GREAT! They love it, and they walk side by side so nice. Good luck hun and let us know how it goes.
ilovelouie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 03:02 AM   #5
And now Missy's Mom, too!
Donating Member
 
Muffie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,496
Love

Are you sure they aren't trying to play/fight?

Has either one drawn blood yet?

Are you taking them to dog obedience classes? They say that's one of the best things you can do to help this problem.
__________________
Pat...Mom to Muffie & Missy!
Our Photos are HERE
Missy on Dogster Muffie on Dogster
Muffie's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 03:59 AM   #6
No Longer a Member
 
YORKIE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 1,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovelouie
I agree with the person that said you should try and find something that they like to do together. Perhaps you could start taking them for lots and lots of walks together if you arent already. I just bought a "coupler" for walking my dogs on one leash and it is GREAT! They love it, and they walk side by side so nice. Good luck hun and let us know how it goes.
Where did you get your 'coupler' from? i have been wanting to get one for ages! to make walkies easier as my yorkies have some 'friendship' issues that need to be addressed! lol
YORKIE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 05:06 AM   #7
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkie3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,685
Default

Yes, where did you get the coupler? I've been looking and the only one I could find was at Pet Smart, but it was so big and heavy. They didn't carry smaller ones.
__________________
Janet
Yorkie3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 05:27 AM   #8
Luv My Spoiled Babies
Donating Member
 
sneri13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffie's Mom
Are you sure they aren't trying to play/fight?

Has either one drawn blood yet?
Mac & Mellie play fight all the time, if you didn't know better you would swear they were trying to kill each other. My two will growl, nip, jump on each other but they are playing. It starts with the butt up front down thing, then they growl then it's an all out chase, attack. If one wants to sleep the other will persist until it's play time. Are their tails wagging, do they nip but NOT actually bite to hurt? Good Luck.
__________________
Susan Mac Mellie & Manny

Until we meet again at Rainbow Bridge
sneri13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 05:46 AM   #9
Donating Yorkie Yakker
 
yorky4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 605
Love

Chase is not happy to have a new buddy in the house. I have seen 2 females get at it and it is a horrid sight! I took in a 4 year old yorkie because she needed a good home..... my 2 top girls did not like her because she was extremely yippy and she always wanted my attention.... she was set inher ways and did not like dogs and thought she was human. So my girls would fight with her....... REALLY BAD.... I tried soooo hard to get them to get along..... it got so bad a few times that blood was drawn.... mine and from the new girl. I didn't have a choice but to place her in a single child home...... she went to a really good friend who I can see and she is happy now.
But Zoe is still young... try to roll him on his belly in front of Chase.... it establishes that Chase is top dog. Do you babysite Chase often?
yorky4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 08:01 AM   #10
Donating YT 14K Club Member
 
txshopper73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,226
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Oh, Marilyn! That sucks! I'm sorry that they are fighting so much. You'd think they would've gotten over this by now.
__________________
As always...JMO (Just My Opinion)
Kimberley
txshopper73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 08:08 AM   #11
YT 500 Club Member
 
Rem&Silkmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 833
Default

We brought Chance home in Feb and Remmy does not care much for him. Chance is always in his face wanting to lick him and play but Remmy is a grump. They have not gotten into a knock down drag out yet but I think that is because Chance is a puppy and he knows that Remmy is boss. Although he loves to pester him and will sit there and watch him eat his food. Even though he has his own food in his bowl. If Remmy is playing with a toy he will go off on Chance if he goes near it...not bite but sure makes a lot of noise. As long as he is not hurting Chance I am happy. I do let him know when I am not happy with him when he is mean to Chance. But Remmy has been under the weather with surgery so it is almost like having to reconnect them all over again.
Rem&Silkmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 08:09 AM   #12
And now Missy's Mom, too!
Donating Member
 
Muffie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,496
Love

I agree - roll him over on his back and lightly place your hand on his upper chest and neck area.

Hold him there until he stops wiggling.

I did this the very day we went to look at puppies and got Missy. She didn't wiggle at all!
__________________
Pat...Mom to Muffie & Missy!
Our Photos are HERE
Missy on Dogster Muffie on Dogster
Muffie's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 09:46 AM   #13
Donating Yorkie Yakker
 
mhorst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 177
Default

Thank you all so much for your comments, encouragement and suggestions. I will try some of your ideas and see what happens. Our daughter still lives with us while she is in college, nursing school. She plans to leave in a couple of years to pursue her masters. I doubt that she will take Chase with her then, so he will be with us a while longer.

Zoe is just so dominant. She does not want Chase to eat, she gets between him and his bowl and barks at him, so we have to separate them at feeding time. She does not want me or my husband to pet Chase at all. If we do she starts barking and gets very agressive, and Chase growls and nips back.

When Chase finds a sock or toy, he trys to hoard it, and Zoe is after him barking and growling trying to take it away.

No, I don't think it is playful. Sometimes they do play, but not often.

It is hard to walk them together due to the big difference in their size, but I will try this, and putting Zoe on her back, and look for obedience training. We have a new PetSmart. Maybe they will offer a class. Haven't heard, but will check into it.

Our daughter tried to do obedience training with Chase in 4H when both of them were much younger, and she failed, but perhaps there is hope.

No blood has been drawn yet, that I know of, but their fighting is getting more vicious. Usually one of them backs down, and the fight ends for a while.

For some reason, I hadn't thought that this would be a big problem once they got to know each other. Hopefully things will calm down when Zoe gets a bit older. I don't think Chase will really hurt her, but we keep Zoe in a separate room or in her crate when no one is home, just in case. She seems to like her crate. She's in control there.

Again, thank you all. It's so good we have this forum to share and help each other!!
__________________
Zoe's Mom & Chase's Gram
http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=257369
mhorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 10:13 AM   #14
And now Missy's Mom, too!
Donating Member
 
Muffie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,496
Love

I personally think they need to have some training. That will help immensely.

I've heard that PetsMart uses their employees to do the dog training classes.

You may need someone with lots more training than that.

I would look for another trainer - maybe for a small class or even a trainer that will come to your home.

We had a personal trainer come to the house and it was wonderful.
__________________
Pat...Mom to Muffie & Missy!
Our Photos are HERE
Missy on Dogster Muffie on Dogster
Muffie's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2006, 10:30 AM   #15
Princess Poop A Lot
Donating Member
 
livingdustmops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
Default

Please do not use the Alpha Roll theory with your little ones . While you can determine how aggressive some puppies will be by rolling them on their backs it should not be used for correction in a dog. If you type in Alpha Roll in the YT Search link you will see many discussions about this. You can also do a google search on Alpha Roll to learn more.

HISTORY & MISCONCEPTIONS OF DOMINANCE THEORY
[ABOUT THE ALPHA ROLL]


Note: The information in the following article came from an interview with Dr. Ian Dunbar, who spent nine years studying the social behavior of dogs during the study mentioned below. In an earlier version of this article, Dr. L. David Mech was credited with the 30-year study. This was a mistake. The researcher who conducted the study was Dr. Frank Beach. An effort has been made to correct this error. However, if you know of a place where the original article was published, please notify the editor and request a correction.
The original alpha/dominance model was born out of short-term studies of wolf packs done in the 1940s. These were the first studies of their kind. These studies were a good start, but later research has essentially disproved most of the findings. There were three major flaws in these studies:
These were short-term studies, so the researchers concentrated on the most obvious, overt parts of wolf life, such as hunting. The studies are therefore unrepresentative -- drawing conclusions about "wolf behavior" based on about 1% of wolf life.
The studies observed what are now known to be ritualistic displays and misinterpreted them. Unfortunately, this is where the bulk of the "dominance model" comes from, and though the information has been soundly disproved, it still thrives in the dog training mythos.

For example, alpha rolls. The early researchers saw this behavior and concluded that the higher-ranking wolf was forcibly rolling the subordinate to exert his dominance. Well, not exactly. This is actually an "appeasement ritual" instigated by the SUBORDINATE wolf. The subordinate offers his muzzle, and when the higher-ranking wolf "pins" it, the lower-ranking wolf voluntarily rolls and presents his belly. There is NO force. It is all entirely voluntary.

A wolf would flip another wolf against his will ONLY if he were planning to kill it. Can you imagine what a forced alpha roll does to the psyche of our dogs?
.
Finally, after the studies, the researchers made cavalier extrapolations from wolf-dog, dog-dog, and dog-human based on their "findings." Unfortunately, this nonsense still abounds.
So what's the truth? The truth is dogs aren't wolves. Honestly, when you take into account the number of generations past, saying "I want to learn how to interact with my dog so I'll learn from the wolves" makes about as much sense as saying, "I want to improve my parenting -- let's see how the chimps do it!"

Dr. Frank Beach performed a 30-year study on dogs at Yale and UC Berkeley. Nineteen years of the study was devoted to social behavior of a dog pack. (Not a wolf pack. A DOG pack.) Some of his findings:

Male dogs have a rigid hierarchy.
Female dogs have a hierarchy, but it's more variable.
When you mix the sexes, the rules get mixed up. Males try to follow their constitution, but the females have "amendments."
Young puppies have what's called "puppy license." Basically, that license to do most anything. Bitches are more tolerant of puppy license than males are.
The puppy license is revoked at approximately four months of age. At that time, the older middle-ranked dogs literally give the puppy hell -- psychologically torturing it until it offers all of the appropriate appeasement behaviors and takes its place at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The top-ranked dogs ignore the whole thing.
There is NO physical domination. Everything is accomplished through psychological harassment. It's all ritualistic.
A small minority of "alpha" dogs assumed their position by bullying and force. Those that did were quickly deposed. No one likes a dictator.
The vast majority of alpha dogs rule benevolently. They are confident in their position. They do not stoop to squabbling to prove their point. To do so would lower their status because...
Middle-ranked animals squabble. They are insecure in their positions and want to advance over other middle-ranked animals.
Low-ranked animals do not squabble. They know they would lose. They know their position, and they accept it.
"Alpha" does not mean physically dominant. It means "in control of resources." Many, many alpha dogs are too small or too physically frail to physically dominate. But they have earned the right to control the valued resources. An individual dog determines which resources he considers important. Thus an alpha dog may give up a prime sleeping place because he simply couldn't care less.
So what does this mean for the dog-human relationship?

Using physical force of any kind reduces your "rank." Only middle-ranked animals insecure in their place squabble.
To be "alpha," control the resources. I don't mean hokey stuff like not allowing dogs on beds or preceding them through doorways. I mean making resources contingent on behavior. Does the dog want to be fed. Great -- ask him to sit first. Does the dog want to go outside? Sit first. Dog want to greet people? Sit first. Want to play a game? Sit first. Or whatever. If you are proactive enough to control the things your dogs want, *you* are alpha by definition.
Train your dog. This is the dog-human equivalent of the "revoking of puppy license" phase in dog development. Children, women, elderly people, handicapped people -- all are capable of training a dog. Very few people are capable of physical domination.
Reward deferential behavior, rather than pushy behavior. I have two dogs. If one pushes in front of the other, the other gets the attention, the food, whatever the first dog wanted. The first dog to sit gets treated. Pulling on lead goes nowhere. Doors don't open until dogs are seated and I say they may go out. Reward pushy, and you get pushy.
Your job is to be a leader, not a boss, not a dictator. Leadership is a huge responsibility. Your job is to provide for all of your dog's needs... food, water, vet care, social needs, security, etc. If you fail to provide what your dog needs, your dog will try to satisfy those needs on his own.

In a recent article in the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT) newsletter, Dr. Ray Coppinger -- a biology professor at Hampshire College, co-founder of the Livestock Guarding Dog Project, author of several books including Dogs : A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior, and Evolution; and an extremely well-respected member of the dog training community -- says in regards to the dominance model (and alpha rolling)...

"I cannot think of many learning situations where I want my learning dogs responding with fear and lack of motion. I never want my animals to be thinking social hierarchy. Once they do, they will be spending their time trying to figure out how to move up in the hierarchy."

That pretty much sums it up, don't you think?

Melissa Alexander
mcalex@connectexpress.com
copyright 2001 Melissa C. Alexander
__________________
Cindy & The Rescued Gang
Puppies Are Not Products!
livingdustmops is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




Google
 

SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166