Question Regarding the "Law" and Selling Your Pups
 

Just to start out, I want to say that this thread was not started to cause any controversy. I'm not saying I am in agreement or disagreement with what I am writing below. I was just wondering about the laws in different states, and if there actually are any laws regarding selling your pups.

Okay first some comments...I believe that when you go to a petstore, any idiot can purchase a pup. Now, I'm not saying that all petstores just sell their pups to make money (that's another topic), I'm saying that I don't think they can discriminate against who buys their pups. Just as when someone goes to rent or buy your house, you can't tell them no because you don't like them. You can't discriminate.

Now for the question: If you are selling your pups, is there any law in any state that says you can't discriminate against anyone who wants to purchase them? I was just wondering, because I didn't think that you could turn people down for wanting to purchase something.

Again...I am not saying that breeders should not want their pups to go to the best homes, I was just wondering if it really is legal to discriminate over who can buy your pups. Do you know what I mean? I was just curious. :)

Thanks in advance for your answers, comments, etc.

hmm
 

the way i would look at it (and i am not a breeder nor do i intend to be) is that its kind of like adopting a child...the prospective parents go thru a screening process...
not saying its right or wrong...just another way to look at it

I was thinking about adopting too...but many Yorkies are not adopted, they are purchased. You know? :)

If you are a private seller I don't see why you shouldn't be able to sell who you want to sell too. But if I went to pet store to buy a dog how would they possibly know how fit an owner I would be? I abhor any comparison with dogs and real children so I would never compare buying a dog to adopting a child but I'm quite sure adopting a child is much harder, as it should be.

You can turn people down as long as your decision is not based on gender, race, religion, age, ethnic group, etc.

You can turn them down for other reasons as long as you use the same set of criteria for everyone, such as fenced yard, no apartment dwellers, young children etc. But you must use the same set of criteria for everyone.

As a private citizen I believe you can sell or not sell to whomever you please. Commercial retailers don't have that privilege.

Also housing is a basic necessity, having a dog is not.

:( Isn't it sad that we have to start our posts with disclaimers, to keep from getting jumped on. :rolleyes: I might just add a disclaimer to my signature. LOL :yelrotflm

well i wouldnt say children and puppies are the same either but its another way of looking at it... everyones perpespectives on things are always going to be different - i wouldnt look at it that way but was just offerring it up as a possible reason for the process...
alot people view thier pets... and this includes the awesome people here at YT - as thier children so for them it would be like making sure thier "child" goes to a good home...
again i dont look at it that way but i am also not a breeder just wanted to possibly give another view on this is all :)

1. Thanks for the info. about fenced yard, young children, etc. Now I understand better. :thumbup:

2. You are right about the disclaimer, it's a shame, but I don't want to get yelled it. :rolleyes:

I appreciate your response. I need all the comparisons I can get!!! :D

Whoops
 

lol yes i know i spelled "Perspective" wrong
see thats what i get for speed typing lol

I totally understand what your saying. When searching for my yorkie, I found a breeder who had some really tiny beautiful ones. But after talking awhile she flat out told me that she thought I would be a good mommy to one of her pups but the fact that I have kids in the house she would not let me purchase one. I was so upset!

It took some time for me to realize that she was just looking out for the best interest of her pups and wanted them to go to the right homes. When you think about it,,, I think I would be the same way. Although I ended up with a tiny one and he's just as rough and tough as any other bigger dog, I have to realize he is tiny and he can get hurt alot easier than a larger one. It takes alot of care and love into breeding and they only have the pups best interest at heart. I am so lucky that someone seen that I would not only be a good mommy but trusted me enough to hand over such a precious life. And to tell you the truth, I am happy to know that someone would put so much effort into finding their pup the perfect home.

My husband and I adopted our youngest child and I dont take offense so i doubt anyone else would either..you weren't saying it in a bad way so don't worry about the comparison..it's sad we have to watch EVERYTHING we say.
I do think some breeders are way too picky. They won't sell to people that have jobs kids other big pets ect. I think it should depend on each person and each family. I do see why they would hesitate to sell to someone that wants to breed. I wouldn't unless I either knew that person or for sure knew they weren't just going to stick the pup in a cage and make it make babies every 6 months. I would help a new breeder start out but i feel that they should do what I had to do before I started out and we all know what that entails..
I do think that there should be some stipulations and see nothing wrong with that. I also think that if a person doesn't like those stipulations there are alot of breeders out there and they can find one that fits them better. I also think that since we put so much time effort and money ect..into our breeding we should be allowed to be choosy. But then again I do think some are a little over board. It puts me in mind of a person just starting out a business..at first anyone that shops is worthy then all of a sudden HEY I'M BIG TIME..so skit you aren't good enough for my store..kinda snooty isn't it..

:D I agree with you and thought that your perspective was on the money. I am one of those people that looks at my dog like he is my child since I don't have any other children or animals, and it would sadden me to think that he could go to a home with less love than mine. I think the breeders have every right to screen the people they are interested in buying their puppies. Also, I know the adoption process for children if much more indepth, as it should be, but the adoption process of a dog should have strict guidelines as well.

Oh and I too am not a breeder just the owner of one special Yorkie Boy :D

Well... as a small hobby breeder myself and a responsible one.... i do try to place my pups in forever homes from the beginning. The families that I choose most happen to be people who have researched it and know what it takes. Believe it or not, I've had a girl ..... who never had a dog before(mature young lady) think that it is like having a hamster..... where you just cage them and take them out when you want. I do try to eduacate everybody and allow them the understanding of what it really intails. Truth is..... it actually sounds like I try to talk people out of it. Which is not my intention. But everybody reading this post is a YORKIE LOVER..... we ALL are because we spend countless hours bragging about our babies and reading stories about other ones. Truth is...... a lot of people are not.... or they love the 'idea' of one and once the cuteness wears off and the novelty wears off..... the dog is often neglected and given away.....

When I sit down with them.....I can tell if this is an impulsive buyer or not. Bad example but.... it's like I love sushi.... I love to eat it.... I love everything about it. But if you ask me to research the process of what it takes to make sushi....if you hand me the book.... I'd never read it. I have no interest in that. Now.... In no way am I comparing sushi to yorkies....but my point is..... a lot of people like the 'idea' or look of it but don't understand the care and responsiblity. And probably won't research it.

But I do honestly get more qualified buyers than I have those....... and I have to even pass on ones who would be perfect for my babies. I just had it happen now. I had one little girl availble and 2 people I was talking to. Both were great candidates and I just had to weigh everything and go with one. I felt awful about the other family but I only had one girl.


I don't judge anybody when they call me..... it;'s not sex, religion, creed,color, race, financial status...... it's about being a RESPONSIBLE breeder. Because selling yorkies to me is not like selling a car or a house..... it's a living, breathing, feeling gift from GOD. :)

Private sellers can turn people down for any reason they choose. It's perfectly legal.

Said perfectly..I totally agree with what you are saying... :thumbup: :thumbup:

Wow, really? I didn't know that. I wonder why... Don't private sellers have to pay tax?

you mean sales tax on the sale of the pet? depending on your state, there are certain things that qualify for sales tax and others that don't. produce for instance are not taxable.

store owners "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". like if you walked in with no shoes, they don't have to sell to you. but of course for a commercial retailer does have certain rules to follow and can't descriminate based on religion, gender, sexual pref, ethnicity, and age (so long as it's not legally contridictory, like beer to a minor). a pet store owner can likewise discriminate against those who attempt to purchase a puppy.

likewise, a private seller can discriminate for the benefit of the welfare of the puppy. i think there's a difference between the sale of products with a retail license and the sale of personal property (which is what the puppy would be to a private seller). the rules are different. if i want to sell my grandmother's quilt, i can choose to sell it to some just like my grandmother, an elderly, God-fearing, heterosexual, woman, and refuse to sell it to anyone who doesn't fit that qualification. i can discriminate because i'm selling something personal rather than something commercial or made for retail.

and with puppies... although money exchanges hands, i believe it can still be defined as "an adoption".

Elderly buyers
 

You said,"You can turn people down as long as your decision is not based on gender, race, religion, age, ethnic group, etc."

Okay, then what about the thread the other day where people were turning down elderly people based on age? Wouldn't this apply?

see, i think a small time breeder, like one that sells < 20 a year or however the federal government defines it nowadays, CAN discriminate based on ANY reason, including gender, race, religion, age, ethnic group, martial status, etc etc. and they can because it's the sale of personal property.

now a usda approved kennel for instance probably wouldn't have that option and will not be able to discriminate against potential buyers based on gender, et al.

In Canada (again by the letter of the law) they can sell or not to anyone they want. However, we are also allowed to rent our houses/apartments to anyone we want. I didn't know you couldn't in the states.

I believe it is because they list the requirements of approval rather then requirements of denial. So they couldn't say, "we will not sell to you because you have a child under 5" but I believe they can say "we will only sell to people who's children are over 5".

And on a personal note, I think they should try their hardest to insure puppy goes to a safe loving environment however you really can never be 100% sure. The person could just say they have no kids, and really have 3 or 4 under 5. Or they could have no kids but 10 nieces and nephews aged 2-4 that visit every day for 8 hours that they just forgot to tell you about. (Extreme examples, I know, but I hope the point was there :))

Or in another example "person 1's" triplets who are 2 years old could be much more gentle and loving then "person 2's" 10 year old child.

And, I hope no one was offended. You all have me worried now ;)

I agree --you can never be completly sure. I'm just a small breeder 1-2 liters a year and I sold 2 female puppies to a neighbor and after 6 months she didn't want to take care of them any longer!! I bought them back and now they are in a great home and I visit sometimes.

AMEN!

The more I read, the more I realize I made the right decision in dealing with the breeder we chose. She asked us countless questions: Fenced-in yard? Do we both work, or is one at home most of the time? We do not feed table scraps, do we? She also let us know that she's only a phone call away if ever we want to just talk to her about raising Abby. I left with the name and number of her vet, and contact info on several people who are owned by her pups over the past 15 years. She let me know in no-uncertain terms that she did turn away prospective buyers for this litter, because their motives were not good.

I've only gone through this once...
 

I am not a breeder but I did have to sell my female yorkie due to her not being a "family dog" she needed to be in a house with no children. I got tons of phone calls due to her size etc.. I basically treated this like an adoption. A person's race,gender or sexuality had NOTHING to do with my final decision.
I interviewed people and asked lots of questions and turned many people down.I think that is one major difference from good breeders and petshops. You can walk into a petshop and if you have the money then you have a puppy.I don't think it is illegal at all if you turn someone down because:
If a person works all day and cannot devote enough time to a puppy,travels too much,has small children (newborn to 6yrs old) .
I'm sure we will see a lawsuit someday from someone that was turned down from getting a puppy. I think it's pretty clear if you don't want to sell a puppy because you don't like what a person looks like or how they talk then you are discriminating and that is illegal.
JMHO

Genie,Cookie & Lola

I was in a waiting room today and read a article on this subject. It said you must be very careful in your wording when you place your ad in selling a puppy. For instance, if you simply state" yorkie puppys for sell for ($this amount) a person can come in and pick any puppy it wants for that price.(legally) It said something on the effect of it being worded as a contract. Im not sure, but it said to never specify the price in the ads and to state that YOU the seller, have the right to refuse a sell for any reasons.That it would keep YOU safe from would-be bad folks.

I'll have to see if I can remember the name of the magazine I was reading...Kennel...something :( sorry dont remember :confused:

Thanks for that bit of info. :)

I have no problem turning down a prospective buyer if I figure this is not the right home for one of my puppies. I do quite an extensive interview first by phone if they get through the telephone interview they are invited to come see us. I don't actually totally admit to having anything for sale only that I am thinking of maybe putting one in a pet home.
In the interview process, I impart all sort of info about the Yorkie, what would work what doesn't. Many times, prospective buyers don't realize what may be involved with the care and feeding of a Yorkie and decide themselves this is not the right breed for them.
That just happened a couple of weeks ago and they decided on a Westie which I helped them find a reputable breeder. And I will do that knowing that if their new idea of a breed is off base the person I sent them to will realize that and do the same as I did, turn them down and tell them why.
You see, if you don't screen a buyer, tragedies often happen or the dog ends up in the shelters or rescues.
If I were not able to chose an appropriate home, that would be the end of my showing and breeding as I won't sell a puppy just anywhere which is also why I won't ship.

I'm glad that you helped prospective buyers out and they decided that a Westie was the best choice for them. I'm going to say this, I know it's going to sound ridiculous (and NOT meant to be mean in any way :) )...but I'm glad no one told me all the work a Yorkie was before I got Baby, because maybe I would have backed out and gotten scared. She is the absolute love of my life, and I don't even want to think what my life would have been like if I was talked out of getting her. :( Is she a lot of work? Heck yeah! But she\'s worth every bit of my time, money, and energy. I\'m so glad nobody tried to talk me out of a Yorkie. My life would be so dull :D

how do you know....
 

My husband and i were talking about this the other day, what kind of questions would you ask and how far would you go to make sure that someone coming to you is not running a puppy mill???????

You should post a new thread under General Yorkie Discussion and ask that question. I\'m sure you\'d get a lot of responses. The question might get lost in here. :D