well i guess all will be well with you if you leave yours at home. if that makes you happy then do it. but maybe you should not make personal attacks on those who do by calling them children. and i am sure that you have never as much as driven one mile over the speed limit, that is a law also.

I am going to stay out of the debate. But do have a comment.

We all have opinions and there are no right or wrong opinions. Some of you are very passionate about this topic and have every right to be.

One thing about writing vs. talking is you can't hear the tone of the writer and we read things differently then the writer intended.

It was very interesting reading the different views and I have gained new insights from this thread that I need to take into serious consideration.

I'm glad BabyFigette chose to stop instead of adding fuel to the fire. I would have hated to see this get ugly.

Thanks. :D

i wonder... question to the original poster... was the gnc store a part of a mall or a strip of stores along the same street? perhaps the other individual just didn't want to leave his dog in the car while he shopped if dogs are allowed in the store. so seeing your dog in the store with you made him think dogs are allowed in the store/mall so he went back so that he can have the dog with him have the time to shop casually rather than in a hurry or leaving the dog in the car for too long.

i know if i had left my yorkie in the car thinking he's not allowed in the store, if i've come to realize he is allowed, then i'd go back to get him as well. i wouldn't think that to be an idiotic behavior.



overall, whether you believe your furbaby/pet/yorkie should be allowed everywhere is one thing, but the policy of establishment goes. this would apply to stores, restaurants, malls, public transportation, apartment complexes, even your friend's homes. i never bring my yorkie to visit a friend in their home unless i first cleared it with them.

and unfortunately, "no dogs allowed" means, dogs of any size, great and small. service dogs are considered different because they are allowed everywhere, at no additional fee should pet fees apply, because it's federal law. so we may gripe and complain at times, but having our furbaby with us at all times is a luxury, but not a right.

ElegntorChild -- I'm guilty. I have gotten three speeding tickets in the past 6 years. And never once was I deliberately speeding.....just driving along and not paying attention - just as bad.

Anyway - I definitely do not want any more speeding tickets. I am religiously using my cruise control now.. to the point of being ridiculous... And (as you thought), I am now probably doing less speeding than anyone in the city I live in.

We have actually lost some of the privileges that we had with our dogs in my city because people wouldn't follow the rules. We have a beautiful river park in the downtown area where people were allowed to take their dogs. The only rules were that they be kept on leashes and that we clean up any messes they make. Of course, a lot of people didn't do either of these two things - so dogs aren't allowed in most of the park anymore.

And - we have a very large beautiful state park - a woodsy, wilderness type area. Dogs were allowed there - again only if on a leash. But this rule wasn't followed by many people. And, two children were badly frightened by roaming dogs (to the point of running and becoming lost for the better part of the day). The dog's owners were in the park, but had let their dogs run loose --- so dogs aren't allowed in a large part of this park anymore either.

I'm all for taking advantage of all the places our dogs can go and the things we can do with them - and following the rules so we can continue to do these things.

Carol Jean

I just had a situation about dogs in establishments.
A lady purchased two dogs from me and as requested I met her, they had drove along way and to help with drive time I met them. They picked Mcdonalds parking lot and it was really supposed to be a pick up point and to sign contracts, go over things, we had talked and went over things for months before. She insisted on taking the dogs inside, as I stated "No its against the law", she already was in the door!!!!!! I stood by my car for a few minutes kinda in shock, but then went ahead and got all the info to go over and went inside. I really didnt know what else to do. It was lunchtime and busy. It didnt take long for people to be pointing and cooing, and then some were not happy and gave the look......we were told to leave pretty quick, everything had to be finished up outside. If there had been a rock I would have crawled underneath it. I was really embarassed.
I love dogs, especially yorkies, but not all people do. It doesnt bother me a bit to eat and give bits of food right from my plate to my dogs, but to others this really bothers them. A restuarant is no place for animals, it is not sanitary. Neither is a grocery store. People with allergies, or dislike of dogs, or fears of dogs or small children shouldnt be exposed to it in a public place either. Its disrespectful of others.
I smoke, its alot like me going into a non smoking area and puffing away.........That would be pretty rude.
Yorkies are cuties and small and can be carried but if they let us do it, they have to let all do it. Service dogs are an entirely different story, for heavens sakes most people who have them are very disabled, and maybe totally blind and absolutely depend on these animals for everyday living. That is much much different. It is a necessity.
I do understand that you want to take your doggies everywhere and you just want them near you. Ive done it too in the past but then I thought about the other guy and the way they might feel. SInce the law is on their side anyway, I think Ill just stick to where my dogs are allowed.

Wow :) Did I mention that I love this place? :D :D :D

I just wanted to say that I love my little Mitzer. We both love to take her when we go places. They don't tend to put signs up for anything here, so every time we go somewhere, it's 50/50 if she can stay or not. We just have to respect the owner/manager and either stay and keep her quietly content or leave the premises with dignity.

In the state of florida where I live dogs (unless service dogs) are not allowed anywhere except vets, petsmart and petshops. And people are not allowed to smoke in resturants and shoes and shirts are ALWAYS required in every store. I have never seen someone with out shoes or shirts in a store, and have been lucky enough not to have to dine with smoke, so I am very happy that also I do not have to shop with dogs!

This was not a mall, it was just an individual place in a walmart strip, There was no one else in the place, if it would have been busy I would have never taken her in, it was just my luck the guy comes in and has a dog in his car. I have never been kicked out for taking her somewhere with me, everyone always coo's over her, she is pretty cute! hehe
I was talking to my husband about this topic and like he said, what is the difference if we take them into a pet store, most pet stores has dog treats in open canisters where any dog can stick there face and tongue in them, then someone else buys that treat that another dog has "contaminated"
And why don't we have more dog friendly places?
We don't even have a dog friendly park here where we live, I took her to a local park once and they told me she could not be in the park!
Really this is a touchy subject.

Just my little two cents....service dogs are not just seeing eye dogs. and I'm sure you all know that but just wanted to say it. I am in the process of moose becoming a service dog for me, but my problem is not a seen disablity and I have been warned by other service dog owners to be ready to justify. Most people only think seeing eye dogs and that's it no other type. We are having issues in north florida from businesses saying no to service dogs that are not seeing eye dogs, so I always like to make it known that there is a broad spectrum of service animals.

Like I said just putting in my 2 cents

I'm guilty of taking Logan places. We don't really live near a lot of stuff so when we go to petsmart I have other erronds to run also. However, I do not take him into places that sell food. Like if we have to stop at Meijers. My husband or I will run in and the other stays in the car with Logan. If I do think it would be okay to take him in I first check the door real well for any No Pets Allowed signs, if it's posted I won't even try. If there is no signs then I proceed with him securely zipped in his bag so he can't get out and no little hands can get in. I have yet to be told to leave, but if I was I wouldn't make a fuss I would turn around and return to the car with my little one.

Look, it is a matter of scale. Of course a seeing eye dog (I call them "working dogs") can contaminate food, as a Yorkie can. The difference is that there are a gajillion pet dogs and only a few working dogs. Just think if EVERYONE brought their dog into a supermarket. As much as I love my dog, I would be grossed out. :(

Let common sense prevail, please. The manager of that store didn't give you a great explanation, but his intent was good, I think.

Service dogs
 

Envrobear,
I am really interested in training one of mine to be a service dog for me, too. I have Lupus and scleroderma; my hands are weak and I have difficulty lifting and grasping at times.

Would you mind either starting a thread to explain how that's done or sending me a private message? I think there might be others out there who would find it interesting, too!

Julie

I agree this is a really touchy subject. We don't have many dog friendly places here either, our dogs are not allowed at state parks or even in homedepot or walmart. They are very strick here and I have to say I am glad. Because a lot of people will let there dog off its leash at a park and not clean up its poo, and that ruins it for all of us who are responsible with our dogs. But I have to say I agree 100% with dogs not being allowed for that reason. If by chance a dog came at my child even to just run up and say hi I would be scared and probably hurt the dog, I carry peppersparay and he would probabbly get a spray of it. It only takes one bite for a dog to kill a child. And I would be pretty peoed if my daughter fell or steped in dog doo... So I guess the park thing is a good thing.

As for the whole store issue, I will always believe people are people and dogs are dogs and I think people sometimes try to treat there dog and pretend that there dog is a baby or a person and thats fine for them, but not all of us think dogs are on the same level as people and others should respect that. I believe that a dog should never be left in a car not even for a second and if animals are'nt aloud in stores then why bring them, people should have the common sense to say I have errands to run and my poor dog is'nt aloud in there so I better leave her at home becuase god forbid I have to leave her in my car alone.

And for all those who say "I look on the door for signs that say no pets", it is NOT required for a bussiness to post no pet signs, however I looked this up and I will find the link and post it, in 93% of cities and states it is a law that NO PETS are allowed in establishments not based around animal care ( Pet stores, pet smart, petco, vets offices etc) So even if its not posted that does'nt mean your dog can come in. It just means that teh state does'nt require them to post a sign.

I mean personally if the dog is zipped in a bag no biggie however that is unfair to all other dog owners who don't like small dogs and choose to own big dogs. You can't discriminate due to size. I have a yorkie who I love dearly but I also have a great dane I love to death and if your yorkie can go in I feel my dane should be allowed as well. Period!

I am impressed with the depth of dialogue that we've had on this thread already without people's emotions getting the best of them. Let's keep it up.

I agree Brandy and Carol Jean (among others). Though we can all see your perspective on the issue, you simply cannot make exceptions for one dog and not another. Personally, I don't even understand the allure of trying to sneak your dog into places. It reminds me of middle schoolers trying to sneak candy into a theatre. I certainly don't see an adult reason for doing it. Why can't you just leave your dog at home when you are running errands?

While I don't think the guy w/ the big dog handled it correctly, I think he was correct in wondering why you got to bring your dog in when he didn't. "But my dog is small and I was holding her." That is not the point at all. I think it is disrespectful, though not intentionally, of people not to consider that others don't want to have a dog or animal in places they shop or eat for health or personal reasons. No one but you knows that your dog is well behaved and isn't going to mess up anything. No one but you knows that your dog is healthy and isn't going to potentially be a source of disease for others. And not even you know if someone in that store is severely allergic to dogs. The one thing we do know is that the store could get in serious trouble for your dog being allowed in. This is why it isn't supposed to be left up to you to decide if you want to follow that law.

The catalyst of this event was not the guy who brought his big dog in. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it started when you decided to bring your dog into the store.

I don't take Jasmine into stores very often and I would never take her into a restaurant. However, My little 5 lb Yorkie zipped up in a bag where no part of her is out of the bag is a different issue than a big great dane or any other big dog in a store.
In the first place, no part of her body ever touches anything in the store. She is completely confined. She can not shed on anything, lick anything, urinate or poop. She can not run up to anyone, including older adults and children so there is no fear of her biting or knocking anyone down or scaring anyone. No one can even see her. The top of the bag and one side has black mesh so she can breath but really can not be seen. No one has ever even known I had her with me.

I had big dogs for years and never took them anyplace like that. I never wanted too for fear of infringing on others. However, since they don't even know jasmine is in the purse, how can I be a nuisance.

I was offended when we used to go to the lake all the time and even though there were signs all over the beach there was always someone who would have some huge dog that was pooping and peeing on the sand and they would take them in the water where my children and I was swimming. Sorry, but I don't want to swim with a huge dog no telling when he had a bath last. I wouldn't take Jasmine in a lake or pool where people were swimming and she has a bath once a week and smells better than a lot of people. I just wouldn't want to offend anyone with my dog.

I have also had these big dogs growl at kids that walked by and that made me mad. The kids were allowed on the beach, the dog was not. If I had a dog that did not like children I would not take it to a place where there were lots of children.

That's just my opinion and I respectfully value everyone else's. I am certainly not trying to be argumentative as I abhor conflict of any kind.

I just had to take a refresher quiz on Animal Disability Act for work and the store CAN NOT ask you what the animal is trianed for or ask for proof. They can or shall I say only suppose to ask if its a service animal and that's it. We had a lady come in with TWO MONKEYS the other day, the managers at Wal Mart had never delt with this so she was held up at the door for a while b/c they couldn't tel her she couldn't come in with her claiming they were service animals the managers called home office...........I was off that day, but they must have gotten in b/c all the girls on the front end were talking about how cute the monkeys were..................I am not saying its right or wrong but the law very much protects service animals and leaves room for people to lie when we are not allowed to ask any qustions or see proof...........Also, once they pass the door person and are IN the store you can't question them. Wal Mart is very play by the book, I am sure some stores would ask more, but by law they are not entitled to. In our last meeting I told them I expexted to see more dogs in the store with so many people now getting them certified for anxiety so they can take them everywhere. I have a 2 pound, 3 pound, and 3 and half pound girls who have the cutest clothes and I love to take them places, but I don't want to put myself in a position of a possible argument with someone b/c I snuck them in..............I limit it sneaking them in anywhere b/c of that.

Angie

AlisonJ -- You mentioned seeing eye dogs versus other dogs being able to visit a store. I think if you'd count the seeing eye dogs that go into a store, you could probably count a year's worth on one hand. I almost never see one.

But - if all pets were allowed to enter a store - you could have dozens there every day.

And - as we all know - seeing eye dogs (because of the service they perform) are, by law, allowed everywhere.

I'm sure we are all in favor of allowing service dogs anywhere. And, we're all willing to accept the consequences. I have seen seeing eye dogs in restaurants before - and people, rather than not want them there, are very respectful of them and admire them. They are also certainly well trained and well behaved.

******A lot of dogs are well trained and well behaved - but there are sure a lot that aren't.

******Our little Yorkies are usually quite clean - but again, a lot of dogs aren't.

******Also, I think most of our little guys receive routine vet care and are up to date on their shots and are healthy - a lot of dogs aren't.

These are some of the reasons that "all pets" can't be allowed to visit many places. You could quickly end up with a lot of unruly, perhaps not too friendly, dirty, or even diseased dogs.

I really feel that our little Yorkies wouldn't cause many problems anywhere, but if we can take our dogs into stores, etc., so can everyone else --- and then there will definitely be problems. Even we wouldn't like that!

Plus think of all the accidents a lot of dogs would have in these public places!!!! Not good!

No pets - is a good rule for many places.

Carol Jean

I agree--that is exactly the point I was attempting to make, although I may not have done so very well. WHen I spoke of a matter of scale, I meant that if pets were allowed, there would be tons of them, while working dogs are few and far between....

You can not really LIE about a service dog we have a training facility here in florida for them and they have never trained a small dog and all service dogs are required to wear a vest so its pretty obvious weather they are or not. And of all the service dogs I have seen you can tell the owners need them, they are normally disabled. But thats not the point how immature do you have to be to lie and say your dog is a service dog if they are not???
Rules are set to keep peace, and saftey and yes we all break them from time to time but is this really that hard of a topic?? Dogs have there places and people have theres Period!

As for the dogs on the beach I think it is rude to bring big or small dogs tehre I agree 100%. However by you saying my great dane is to big, thats discrimination and that is why they don't allow ANY TYPE of pet!
We could all go back and forth all day on this topic some people just don't respect others and we will all have to agree to disagree!

Service Dogs - Federal Regulations
 

Here is a good site to go to for reference on service dogs and the can/can not's of the Federal Regulations. I am very familiar with the regulations of service dogs as my oldest daughter is disabled and we have looked into getting a service dog for her.

Here are a couple of highlights:

How can I identify if a dog is a service dog and not just a pet?

The simple answer is to ask the handler, "Is this a service dog?" You may also ask what tasks the dog has been trained to do for the handler. A service dog can be any breed or size.

Does the dog have to wear a vest or tag to identify it as a service dog?
No, there is no Federal requirement that the dog wear any special gear or identification. Also, there is no requirement that the handler carry any certification papers showing that the dog has been trained as a service dog. You may not ask the person about the nature or extent of his or her disability.

How do local health and safety laws apply to service dogs?

Remember that service dogs are not pets. Therefore, local laws that restrict pets from restaurants, housing, and theaters, for example, are not applicable to service dogs. A good rule of thumb is that the ADA is the law that governs matters related to access to public places and businesses for people with disabilities accompanied by their service dogs. But, handlers of service dogs must obey local leash and vaccine laws and must have their dogs under control at all times.

I'm sorry, I just could not let this one go as I am very passionate about my disabled daughter. She does not look disabled and I/We (dh) take great offense to someone saying that it is obvious that a person needs a service dog because they appear disabled. As a matter of fact, if you looked at my daughter you would never be able to tell that she cannot speak, wears a diaper at the age of 8 and cannot comprehend that of a 6 mo. old let alone an 8 y/o.

Sorry, please don't talk to me about common sense. I have it. The question is did I use it when I went into the supermarket? No. Did I admit that I was stupid for doing so? Yes. I just got Baby. Did I want to leave her alone? No. Did I want to show her off a bit? Yes. Was I not thinking about others? Yes. Was I being selfish? Yes. Will I do it again? No. But, you people are missing my point! I said his explaination was idiotic! That's it!! Did he mean well? Yes. I never said he didn't. Please, please, please stop twisting my words around. It's getting annoying.

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Amen!!!
 

AMEN SISTER!!! Well said.

Sorry...gotta disagree with the whole candy in the theatre issue. I am NOT paying $5.00+ dollars for candy. Buy it at Walmart and stick it in your purse baby! :D

I did not say your great dane was too big. I certainly have nothing against big dogs. I have had 2 great pyranees, an English Sheepdog, an Irish Setter and a chow. I loved them dearly but left them at home because it was difficult to take them places and I couldn't carry them as I do Jasmine.
I might have taken them to Petsmart, etc but not to a store.
Just as an airline will allow a little dog up front in a carrier but will not allow a big dog to ride up front. There are some places a tiny dog is allowed to go and be carried in a carrier that a big dog is not allowed.

I did say I would not take my 5 lb Yorkie to the beach to swim as it would be infringing on others. I do not take Jasmine anyplace that she would be a nuisance to anyone or infringe on their rights or to anyplace like a resturant where it would be against the law. If she is in her bag and no one even knows she is in the bag then she isn't bothering anyone.

I'm not trying to sound mean to you, but people are allergic to a lot of things other than dogs, i.e. peanuts. People who are allergic to dogs do what? Sneeze, get itchy eyes? Big deal. I'm on Allegra D every day of my life. I've never heard of a person having an anaphylactic shock over a dog. Now..people die from peanut allergies. Does that mean you are not going to keep peanut M&Ms in your pocket for fear that someone will die if they get a whiff of them? I highly doubt it. Now, once again, please don't twist words around...I am not saying dogs should or shouldn't be allowed in public places. I am stating that a dog allergy is not a big deal. But, I'll admit. I can't be wrong. I have been once or twice in my life. :rolleyes:

Very well said. :thumbup:

It should say, But, I'll admit I CAN be wrong. Not can't. DUH! :rolleyes:

I work at Sears in the mall. And there was a lady the other day with her yorkie shopping by the washers and dryers. Nobody said a word. I slept in Sears with my yorkie Lacey after Hurricane Andrew while waiting for a generator. I guess they allowed her since it was a natural disaster. There was no way I was going to let her suffer any longer in a hot house with no airconditioning. We were without power due to the hurricane for over a week. Another couple also had there yorkies running around. And someone else had a potbellied pig in the store. Once I got kicked out the gas station for holding Lacey in my arms while I tried to pay for my gas. I was bringing Lacey to the vet. She had kidney failure and had to go 3 times a week for fluid treatments. I was not going to let her sit in the sweltering 90 degree heat in the hot car in her condition. So, I had to make useless trips back and forth since they would not allow me in the store with her.