Nervous about Yorkies’s Weight.

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Well disagree is what we must do because yorkies were much closer to the 15 pounds until they were bred down.

Yes....now. Look up the dates of when they were bred down. 1800s. How many? How many generations ago was that? Say a dog lives 15 years. How many generations? So now? Should be still have 15, that is Fifteen Pound, honest to goodness, "Throw Backs"?????????

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by matese

I bought every book I could lay my hands on to read up on the breed.

<laughs and winks> Oh Me Too! Animal Breed Books! I had such a large collection, I wish I still had them ALL! And remember the COSTS! Oh My. And then sometimes the waiting a few weeks for the Stores to Order them for you and 'get them in'. Animal, mostly Dog Breed and Training Books are what I asked for when Birthdays and Christmas rolled around!



THANK GOODNESS FOR PEDIGREE DATABASE! Ey!!!!! I can not tell you the amount of hours I spent there searching for my GSD. My Dogs are under Von Kazmaier Kennel with WORKING Pedigrees back to the 1800s.



I give each puppy buyer a Folder with 5 generation pedigree, training pages, written and signed guarantee, health records, and more. I also give them each a OLD GSD book. (also leash, collar, toy, and more) called their 'Puppy Packet'. I have a page in there about how to get to and see pedigrees and how to add their new puppies. Pedigrees Matter!



Here are a FEW of my GSD Books in my Collection. I must admit, I only have like, 7 Yorkie books.....but I am NOT planning on breeding them either.


https://workinggermanshepherddogs.com/?action=Albums

[matese]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

INDEED, THAT WAS MY POINT!



But the other side of that coin is that when the average person sees a WELL BRED dog or any breed, or animals of any species, and decide they would like to have one, these folks are NOT doing their own Home Work. They are not searching for what they really want, they just buy the first puppy they find and expect it to look like the last Champion they saw at the Westminster.



There are Throw Backs, Indeed. However. Reputable Breeders have fewer, FAR FEWER, the point is to breed out the faults (as humanly possible, and breed as close to the Standard as they can)....and most Reputable Breeders will TELL their puppy buyers that the dog, whatever breed, could have.....if they know it is in the lines.


But let's take this further. What do you consider a Throw Back? The Breed is well established now. So? At what size point do you consider a Throw Back? To me, over 10 pounds, is not a Throw Back, but Yorkies bred too large.



Most people that are breeding these larger Yorkshire Terriers that are oversize, also DO NOT care about other features either.....teeth, legs, tracia, skin algeries.....ect., ect, ect. They care about Money. Just how much they can make on a litter.



Now? <laughs and winks> Wanna talk about Breeders INTERPRETATION of the Standard for the Breed. THAT is a 'whole nother' story line, ey? <laughs again>


How about, get ready, some of you will get this, "Kennel Blindness". THAT too is a 'whole nother' story line.


All Joking A Side. With Yorkies SIZE is important. Maybe not the most important, but they were bred small because people wanted small. Without getting into the whole 'Teacup' controversy, let's be honest. Most folks feel disappointed if their puppies grow past a certain weight. And they are not wrong to feel this way. Yorkshire Terriers are a TOY Breed and people expect them to be bred under 7 pounds with few exceptions.

There are a lot of BYB (Back Yard Breeders) Hey, I have a female yorkie and you have a male, lets make some money and throw the two of them together, that's whats out there. I know this first hand, I am ashamed to say I had friends and recitatives that did this, my advise fell on deaf ears. Ppl see yorkies being sold for $1000. / $1200. it's a bargain, they buy the dog then complain about bigger yorkie.

There is a saying on YT "Buy the breeder before the dog" meaning, KNOW the breeder, research the breeder, ask the breeder all questions, if the breeder is hesitant to answer, walk away. A reputable will answer all your questions, they breed to better the breed, to keep their puppies in the conformation set by the standard yorkie. And yes, some reputable breeders can have a litter with a larger puppy but that is not often. A throw back in today's yorkie world is one that is 10 Lbs or over.
YT has actually had ppl asking for names of breeders who breed for larger yorkies lol. Every yorkie I have had was over 9 Lbs, my last beauty was 17 Lbs, pure AKC yorkie and beautiful. Size matters not to me, a yorkie is a yorkie no matter what they weigh, weight has no affect on their personalities. When buying a yorkie there is no way a buyer can research the breeding pair, they have to trust they have an honest breeder. But the fact remains, in the 1800 when the yorkie was created it was a bigger dog, bred down in the mid 1800's so they would fit into smaller caves and holes to flush out vermin for hunting enjoyment.
In today's BYB world of yorkies they breed for tiny puppies because that is what ppl want, tiny 3 / 4 pound babies that come with a lot of health issues, die at a young age. These breeders are destroying the breed because society wants tiny dogs.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

INDEED, THAT WAS MY POINT!



But the other side of that coin is that when the average person sees a WELL BRED dog or any breed, or animals of any species, and decide they would like to have one, these folks are NOT doing their own Home Work. They are not searching for what they really want, they just buy the first puppy they find and expect it to look like the last Champion they saw at the Westminster.



There are Throw Backs, Indeed. However. Reputable Breeders have fewer, FAR FEWER, the point is to breed out the faults (as humanly possible, and breed as close to the Standard as they can)....and most Reputable Breeders will TELL their puppy buyers that the dog, whatever breed, could have.....if they know it is in the lines.


But let's take this further. What do you consider a Throw Back? The Breed is well established now. So? At what size point do you consider a Throw Back? To me, over 10 pounds, is not a Throw Back, but Yorkies bred too large.



Most people that are breeding these larger Yorkshire Terriers that are oversize, also DO NOT care about other features either.....teeth, legs, tracia, skin algeries.....ect., ect, ect. They care about Money. Just how much they can make on a litter.



Now? <laughs and winks> Wanna talk about Breeders INTERPRETATION of the Standard for the Breed. THAT is a 'whole nother' story line, ey? <laughs again>


How about, get ready, some of you will get this, "Kennel Blindness". THAT too is a 'whole nother' story line.


All Joking A Side. With Yorkies SIZE is important. Maybe not the most important, but they were bred small because people wanted small. Without getting into the whole 'Teacup' controversy, let's be honest. Most folks feel disappointed if their puppies grow past a certain weight. And they are not wrong to feel this way. Yorkshire Terriers are a TOY Breed and people expect them to be bred under 7 pounds with few exceptions.

You are aware that show and “reputable breeders” are not god. I was very unhappy to learn that there are show breeders who will breed dogs with faults or health issues like Luxating Patella. Many show breeders also have used dye on their dogs hair and so on. Never once in my life have I been disappointed with the size my dogs have turned and this includes all the ones I grew up with. I know that there is no guarantee on what size a puppy will become. A 15 pound yorkie to me is gold and worth more then a 3 pound yorkie. At the end of the day when I get a dog I get a dog for life no matter what size they turn out. There is a huge market out there for the larger yorkies just like with the tiny yorkies. The standard is a joke on most dogs and has destroyed them or demand that parts of their bodies must be cut off which is ridiculous. I’m fine with a breeder who doesn’t breed for the standard but takes health and the dogs lines into consideration. Ollies breeder has dogs that generally hit 7 pounds or under and her lines show that but Ollies 5 pound mom and 4 pound dad produced Ollie who by 5 months old weighed more then both of them and all his other siblings and it certainly wasn’t because she was breeding bigger yorkies. Breeding small dogs can be very dangerous and female yorkies under 5 pounds are not supposed to be breed so why not raise the standard back up so it safer for these females? The breeder gave her this put at 8 weeks when good breeders keep puppies until 12 weeks so we know this isn’t a good breeder.

[Lovetodream88]

I feel that in today’s world where it is more popular to want a tiny yorkie those of us with bigger yorkies are looked down upon. Almost like our bigger yorkies are less. I have had multiple people say how they really love the bigger size yorkies. I honestly hope that the breeders out there who are breeding for bigger healthy yorkies continue to do so. No matter the size a yorkie is a yorkie. Whether one is 4 pounds or 15 pounds neither is less and they both are small dogs. Anyone one who gets a yorkie that ends up bigger and they don’t want them because of that hit me up with pm. I have lived my life not being wanted because I am bigger so I have no problem taking those pups that aren’t wanted because they are bigger.

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by matese

There are a lot of BYB (Back Yard Breeders) Hey, I have a female yorkie and you have a male, lets make some money and throw the two of them together, that's whats out there. I know this first hand, I am ashamed to say I had friends and recitatives that did this, my advise fell on deaf ears. Ppl see yorkies being sold for $1000. / $1200. it's a bargain, they buy the dog then complain about bigger yorkie.

Or <rolls eyes> those that mix with other breeds then make up 'breed names' like Morkies. There's a lot of money in that too. I could not believe what they were asking these.

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by matese

There is a saying on YT "Buy the breeder before the dog" meaning, KNOW the breeder, research the breeder, ask the breeder all questions, if the breeder is hesitant to answer, walk away. .

Not unique. Although I have heard, in dog circles, "Know the Breeder before buying the dog." THAT was a saying among 'dog people' in the 60s, 70s, even 80s and 90s.

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

You are aware that show and “reputable breeders” are not god. I was very unhappy to learn that there are show breeders who will breed dogs with faults or health issues like Luxating Patella. Many show breeders also have used dye on their dogs hair and so on. Never once in my life have I been disappointed with the size my dogs have turned and this includes all the ones I grew up with. I know that there is no guarantee on what size a puppy will become. A 15 pound yorkie to me is gold and worth more then a 3 pound yorkie. At the end of the day when I get a dog I get a dog for life no matter what size they turn out. There is a huge market out there for the larger yorkies just like with the tiny yorkies. The standard is a joke on most dogs and has destroyed them or demand that parts of their bodies must be cut off which is ridiculous. I’m fine with a breeder who doesn’t breed for the standard but takes health and the dogs lines into consideration. Ollies breeder has dogs that generally hit 7 pounds or under and her lines show that but Ollies 5 pound mom and 4 pound dad produced Ollie who by 5 months old weighed more then both of them and all his other siblings and it certainly wasn’t because she was breeding bigger yorkies. Breeding small dogs can be very dangerous and female yorkies under 5 pounds are not supposed to be breed so why not raise the standard back up so it safer for these females? The breeder gave her this put at 8 weeks when good breeders keep puppies until 12 weeks so we know this isn’t a good breeder.

Oh! I Agree! I WHOLEHEARTEDLY Agree! Make no mistake what I am trying to say. There are folks that show in Confirmation only to get MORE for their puppies by saying they have 'show dogs', or 'I have shown, said breed, for xx years" ....and they are USUALLY the ones that want spay/neuter contracts and all sorts of papers signed BEFORE you can even know what their puppies look like.


No we, none of us, are God. I said before, as well bred as humans can. I know a LOT of Breeders that will NOT show. They feel they are breeding BETTER than what is showing in Conformation.....true or not, at least they are really trying to Breed Well. I do NOT like the GSD hips inside the Show Rings....however in the past few years they are bringing them back up to where they should be. Shame on Many Judges for what they 'put up'. Again I say.....Interpretation of the Standard.



My point about Reputable Breeder, the real ones, is that they are trying to not only Breed to Standard, but also Breed for HEALTH!


Opinions vary on a lot of what you are saying.....but I still believe that SIZE, the Small/Tiny Size (to me anything under 10 pounds is tiny) is what brings folks to the Yorkie as a Breed.

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I feel that in today’s world where it is more popular to want a tiny yorkie those of us with bigger yorkies are looked down upon. Almost like our bigger yorkies are less. I have had multiple people say how they really love the bigger size yorkies. I honestly hope that the breeders out there who are breeding for bigger healthy yorkies continue to do so. No matter the size a yorkie is a yorkie. Whether one is 4 pounds or 15 pounds neither is less and they both are small dogs. Anyone one who gets a yorkie that ends up bigger and they don’t want them because of that hit me up with pm. I have lived my life not being wanted because I am bigger so I have no problem taking those pups that aren’t wanted because they are bigger.

And that's fine. If that is what you want. But what I am saying is more breeders, in fact, ALL Breeder should make the best effort to BREED TO THE STANDARD FOR THE BREED! And our Yorkie's Standard, calls for a dog 7 pounds and Under! Let me repeat, AND UNDER.



Should Breeders breed ONLY for size????? OF COURSE NOT! THAT is my whole point.


No dog is perfect as far as the Standard goes. However. When a dog weighs twice what the Standard for a TOY breed calls for, it is NOT bred correctly or well.


A 4 pound Yorkie could be inside a Conformation Show Ring. A 15 pound Yorkie is not.



Let's be honest.....what do MOST Yorkie Owners talk about....what is the first question we are asked????? WEIGHT! How much do our dogs weigh. So yes. It matters to us whether we will admit it or not.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

Oh! I Agree! I WHOLEHEARTEDLY Agree! Make no mistake what I am trying to say. There are folks that show in Confirmation only to get MORE for their puppies by saying they have 'show dogs', or 'I have shown, said breed, for xx years" ....and they are USUALLY the ones that want spay/neuter contracts and all sorts of papers signed BEFORE you can even know what their puppies look like.


No we, none of us, are God. I said before, as well bred as humans can. I know a LOT of Breeders that will NOT show. They feel they are breeding BETTER than what is showing in Conformation.....true or not, at least they are really trying to Breed Well. I do NOT like the GSD hips inside the Show Rings....however in the past few years they are bringing them back up to where they should be. Shame on Many Judges for what they 'put up'. Again I say.....Interpretation of the Standard.



My point about Reputable Breeder, the real ones, is that they are trying to not only Breed to Standard, but also Breed for HEALTH!


Opinions vary on a lot of what you are saying.....but I still believe that SIZE, the Small/Tiny Size (to me anything under 10 pounds is tiny) is what brings folks to the Yorkie as a Breed.

Yes sadly GSDs are one of the breeds that have taken a huge hit by the standard. Those and the smushed face breeds that almost can't breath. The majority of people who want the tiny yorkies want a purse dog they can tote around like an accessory and that's not a great life for any dog. I'm not even sure why yorkies are in the toy group they should be in the terrier group because that is what their personality shows more then toy. I like yorkies because of the terrier personality not size. They also work better with my Grandmothers lung issues as well as my allergies. Maybe we need to have them in two groups like they have multiple groups for poodles and some of the other breeds. I think that would be a stellar idea honestly. I also want to ban tail docking if you couldn't tell lol.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

And that's fine. If that is what you want. But what I am saying is more breeders, in fact, ALL Breeder should make the best effort to BREED TO THE STANDARD FOR THE BREED! And our Yorkie's Standard, calls for a dog 7 pounds and Under! Let me repeat, AND UNDER.



Should Breeders breed ONLY for size????? OF COURSE NOT! THAT is my whole point.


No dog is perfect as far as the Standard goes. However. When a dog weighs twice what the Standard for a TOY breed calls for, it is NOT bred correctly or well.


A 4 pound Yorkie could be inside a Conformation Show Ring. A 15 pound Yorkie is not.



Let's be honest.....what do MOST Yorkie Owners talk about....what is the first question we are asked????? WEIGHT! How much do our dogs weigh. So yes. It matters to us whether we will admit it or not.

And there is the problem that standard! It has destroyed many breeds so why stand to it completely when it could bring health concerns? There is absolutely nothing wrong with breeding bigger yorkies that are healthy. The AKC is not god either they are an organization out to get money not do whats best. Most of the yorkie owners I converse with its not about size. I find this whole obsession with weight is just that an obsession and just makes people feel down about their animals or even themselves. I do not ask any other yorkie owners the weight of their dog pretty much ever because I'm not obsessed with it and it doesn't matter to me. I have asked boy or girl and age as well as name and other stuff but never weight. Its just sad that apparently there are many people who would just get rid of a dog because its over 7 pounds. These are living beings that deserve more then just being a standard. You will never stop bad breeding and you will never stop people not breeding to the standard it just wont happen. Lucky me and several of my friends will be here to take those unlovable unwanted dogs......

[Marna1957]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

And there is the problem that standard

It's NOT the Breed Standards that are ruining Breeds....it is how people are breeding and interpreting the Standards. Many times, and I know you have seen this too, people will breed by 'what the Confrontational Judges are putting up'. In other words, let's take GSD. There is a slight slope in the rear.....judges started, in about the late 1960s and 1970s to put up VERY sloped dogs, so people started breeding for THAT, rather than the total dog. This is the reason so many danged poor GSD are so ROACHED BACKED <yuk, I hate that look>. And I have SEEN judges (note no capital on that one) put up dogs that are so Roached Backed it looks absolutely painful and will be with old age!



Many judges, and NOT ALL, of course, and shame on the ones that do, put up off colors, for example, dogs with white on them that SHOULD NOT HAVE WHITE ON THEM (I just saw this in the GSD ring), wrong fur type, too tall, too short, and whatever else they, the judges, prefer to see on any breed.


A lot of it has to do with interpretation of the Standard. Not really knowing the breed but passing a written test for judging papers on that breed. The more breeds they can judge the more in demand at shows they are.



Please don't hate on dogs that are small, tiny, HATE THAT THE BREEDERS are breeding ONLY for that quality. Hate that breeders are breeding dogs that are small only because they are small.....



The bottom line should be HEALTH, we all know that. But size can not always be the factor in that. Just because a Yorkie is bred tiny does not make it sickly. Nor! Because it is larger make it healthier.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

It's NOT the Breed Standards that are ruining Breeds....it is how people are breeding and interpreting the Standards. Many times, and I know you have seen this too, people will breed by 'what the Confrontational Judges are putting up'. In other words, let's take GSD. There is a slight slope in the rear.....judges started, in about the late 1960s and 1970s to put up VERY sloped dogs, so people started breeding for THAT, rather than the total dog. This is the reason so many danged poor GSD are so ROACHED BACKED <yuk, I hate that look>. And I have SEEN judges (note no capital on that one) put up dogs that are so Roached Backed it looks absolutely painful and will be with old age!



Many judges, and NOT ALL, of course, and shame on the ones that do, put up off colors, for example, dogs with white on them that SHOULD NOT HAVE WHITE ON THEM (I just saw this in the GSD ring), wrong fur type, too tall, too short, and whatever else they, the judges, prefer to see on any breed.


A lot of it has to do with interpretation of the Standard. Not really knowing the breed but passing a written test for judging papers on that breed. The more breeds they can judge the more in demand at shows they are.



Please don't hate on dogs that are small, tiny, HATE THAT THE BREEDERS are breeding ONLY for that quality. Hate that breeders are breeding dogs that are small only because they are small.....



The bottom line should be HEALTH, we all know that. But size can not always be the factor in that. Just because a Yorkie is bred tiny does not make it sickly. Nor! Because it is larger make it healthier.

I don’t hate tiny dogs at all. When I get a dog it’s for life. No matter what size. If the dog has some kind of other issue we work it out. If the dog gets sick we figure it out. I think though tiny is A LOT more work then bigger. When I got Joey and he was 3 pounds it was a lot of work he could fit anywhere and we had to put chicken wire on certain parts of the fence and everything else. I got lucky that mine ended up bigger either way though I was going to keep them and love them.

[lilgidget]

Whad does GSD stand for - what does it mean?

[matese]

Originally Posted by Marna1957

Or <rolls eyes> those that mix with other breeds then make up 'breed names' like Morkies. There's a lot of money in that too. I could not believe what they were asking these.

Don't even get me started on mix breeds lol. People that know nothing about dogs buy these "once upon a time known as MUTTS" now called designer dogs or hybrids lol and actually think it's a breed. I have seen Morkies being sold for $3500. and people PAY that amount for them, unbelievable. Pure breeds in time will be a thing of the past.

One of my neighbors rescued a morkie, they also have a older yorkie, you cannot tell which is the morkie. How many Morkies are being sold as a yorkie?