Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4751996)

Not a big fan of there’s. I’m sorry you feel you killed her but I’m sure you didn’t. 2 weeks between surgeries and vaccines is fine. There is no treatmeant for the dog flu but they can die and develop secondary infections that can also kill them so if you take your pets out and live in the area effected it is a good idea to get the dog flu shot. With bordatella sure it can be treated but it can take over a month to treat and multiple antibiotics which also can negatively effect their immune systems too. It can also cause secondary infections that can again cause great distress and even death. Lyme isn’t really curable either and can also be deadly. My vet does not give shots when they are sick and that’s why they do a wellness check up before giving shots. I differently think sick or sensative dogs definitely need different precautions or a different vaccine plan I think it’s not very common. I am a huge fan of vaccinations and get all available for me so as long as they are safe for my puppies I will do the same. Callie can not afford to get sick with her compromised immune system so she needs to be protected and can’t have her siblings bring anything home to her either. I’m just not willing to risk their life’s when they can be vaccinated for things that could kill them. Vaccines are safe and necessary with dogs who do not have issues with them and are generally healthy. It’s very difficult to “break” an immune system. I saw some of the cases of not vaccinating in my vet assistant classes and it’s scary.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4751998)

You links say you can start vaccinating at 6-8 weeks old but that’s not true, science has shown that and vaccines before 8 weeks are useless. Also titers are useless as well.

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 4752007)

Once again, we can agree to disagree. I doubt you even looked at the links. They are on the Mercola site but they reference Dr Shultz’s work and findings, which are well worth considering when wanting to know about vaccines. I also choose them because they are easier to understand than the more scientifically based articles available online.

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 4752007)

Once again, we can agree to disagree. I doubt you even looked at the links. They are on the Mercola site but they reference Dr Shultz’s work and findings, which are well worth considering when wanting to know about vaccines. I also choose them because they are easier to understand than the more scientifically based articles available online.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4752023)

I did look at the site that’s how I know they were saying to vaccinate at 6-8 weeks. I’m leery of articles where some of the facts are wrong because it makes me wonder how much more is false. Titers are unreliable and that is a fact! I won’t agree to just let things go that go against facts like the titers.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4752025)

This is long article about titers but very informative Antibody Titer Testing as a Guide for Vaccination in Dogs and Cats | The SkeptVet

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4752026)

Here is also a good article about vaccines autoimmune disease. Evidence Update: Vaccination and Autoimmune Disease | The SkeptVet

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4752014)

Mercola isn't reputable, BUT I agree with you that Dr. Schultz has published some good *preliminary* work suggesting that a 7 year schedule for core vaccines may be sufficient. I'm sure that after his work has been replicated by other studies, the vaccination schedules will change. In the meantime, I'll abide by the current recommendations.

About antibody testing, here is a really good link to a page on the American Animal Hospital Association website: https://www.aaha.org/guidelines/cani...y_testing.aspx

According to AAHA, antibody testing is only valid for the following vaccinations:

canine distemper virus (CDV)
canine parvovirus (CPV)
canine adenovirus (CAV)

There are a lot of other good links about vaccination on the left side of the AAHA page that I linked to above.

Originally Posted by Jkpal (Post 4752005)

kjc--You sound like an intelligent, careful and caring, totally loving 'mom'/owner. I think we all feel responsible for anything untoward that happens with our little ones, but I hope you can forgive yourself for something that you absolutely did not do 'killing Tink.' We can't know what we don't know and it would seem you did your absolute best with your Tink at every turn. You took such wonderful care of you little (13 lbs!!) one. Thank you for sharing what you learned over time and I know that I will be copying and saving your post for reference. I think Tink had a wonderful life with you and probably a much longer one than she would have had with anyone else. I'm not expressing myself very well here, I just think you did everything possible for Tink and the last was simply out of your hands.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4752050)

I'm attaching an image of a table documenting duration of immunity for various types of vaccine from a paper co-authored by Dr. Schultz in 2001. You really have to go by the challenge study results--that's where they try to infect the vaccinated dog with the disease. Those types of studies are the most accurate. The paper itself may be behind a paywall, but in case it's not, here is the link: http://www.vetsmall.theclinics.com/a...%2950603-8/pdf

The table also indicates whether or not the titer test correlates with immunity for the various types of vaccinations. At the time this paper was released, there were no challenge studies available for the rabies vaccine. Schultz's current research (linked in a previous post) shows that rabies vaccine is good for at least five years, and the study is still ongoing.

Not all titer tests are correlated with immunity based on challenge studies, so you have to be really careful in interpreting titer test results.

(Somehow, we've drifted way off topic from dog flu, but that's okay.)

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 4752028)

Sorry, LOL, I did catch that after I hit the ‘submit’ button. I thought that puppies lose their maternal antibodies according to how much colostrum they ingest so not all pups are equally protected in the same litter.

https://drjeandoddspethealthresource...6#.WoZrqMpOmhC

As for titers, more work needs to be done like standardizing the procedures, etc. I was only going to do it to see if my immune-challenged dog was capable of making any antibodies, not to skip vaccines or anything like that.



As I said above, not using titers a guide for vaccination, but to see if my dog actually produced antibodies from vaccines, hence gleaning more info about the state of her health and to be able to use that info to make better decisions concerning her treatment.



Right... not enough evidence to prove or disprove associations. Too many variables, and reporting procedures need to be standardized.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4751860)

In many (most?) parts of the US, you would be breaking the law if you did not get the core vaccines on the AVMA recommended schedule of 3 years for the core vaccines. You would risk having your dog taken and euthanized. Until the laws change, I wouldn't be recommending that people break them.

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4752077)

I believe the only vaccine actually required by law is rabies, technically speaking.

**not advocating skipping core vaccines, just saying that in most places your dog won't be euthanized for not being up to date on distemper, for example.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4752052)

The table is attached to THIS post. (It was too large and had to be resized.)

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4752077)

I believe the only vaccine actually required by law is rabies, technically speaking.

**not advocating skipping core vaccines, just saying that in most places your dog won't be euthanized for not being up to date on distemper, for example.