Opinion request about the knees

[Zoey Zendaya]

Would you have surgery done while they are young to correct a hereditary defect in the knees ?
We have knee slippage in both knees , both dogs , and yes I know all about the breeder facts.
I have one vet who refers out if needed, saying no as long as they are not having a problem walking or holding it up most dogs just live with the popping in and out....
I have another appointment Monday for a 2nd opinion from another vet who DOES do this surgery and then an appointment with an ortho specialist the next week who is noted to just redo it to make it right....
Yikes they have to chisel out that groove that the kneecap sits in....

[Imissu]

I have the same situation and received two completely conflicting opinions, so I'll be anxious to hear any advice.

[Wylie's Mom]

Our Wylie had LP from when he was a very young adult. However, we never did treat it until one day he was starting to lift his leg -- that's when we consulted for possible surgery and ended up doing both knees at once. He was about 8 or 9 then.

[Zoey Zendaya]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Our Wylie had LP from when he was a very young adult. However, we never did treat it until one day he was starting to lift his leg -- that's when we consulted for possible surgery and ended up doing both knees at once. He was about 8 or 9 then.

Do you wish you had done the surgery sooner ? Or do you think it doesn't make much difference.....I worry I hear to have it done while they are young they recover faster but I dunno....
Now this is a defect correct? Not an injury? Probably depends on the dog then....weight and size and degree of defect...oh my

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya

Do you wish you had done the surgery sooner ? Or do you think it doesn't make much difference.....I worry I hear to have it done while they are young they recover faster but I dunno....
Now this is a defect correct? Not an injury? Probably depends on the dog then....weight and size and degree of defect...oh my

No, I never experienced anything that made me think it should be done earlier. The vets basically said not to do anything unless there were symptoms that appeared. And then they finally did appear in that one knee. At that time, since both knees were so equally bad - we elected to just have them both done and get it over with at once. It wasn't from an injury, no.

This year, our chi, Arthur, somehow tore his knee. He does/did have LP as well. So when they went in to correct the tear, they improved his groove in his 1 knee at that time. No probs since.

[Zoey Zendaya]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

No, I never experienced anything that made me think it should be done earlier. The vets basically said not to do anything unless there were symptoms that appeared. And then they finally did appear in that one knee. At that time, since both knees were so equally bad - we elected to just have them both done and get it over with at once. It wasn't from an injury, no.

This year, our chi, Arthur, somehow tore his knee. He does/did have LP as well. So when they went in to correct the tear, they improved his groove in his 1 knee at that time. No probs since.

Ahhhhh....I see, I kinda wondered why have a surgery before you " need" it too ...before symptoms appear ....thanks so much for your information...helps put my mind at ease

[KairaPup]

I have two dogs who've managed to wind up with patella troubles.

Kaira is not luxating now. But she managed to rip the ligament on one knee. That required surgical repair.

My other dog, Douglas, has been luxating his whole life. He is a senior rescue dog and he is very high risk for any procedure, especially anesthesia. He does "skip" sometimes when the knees hang up, but it doesn't seem to bother him and he gets on just fine. The risk of doing surgery is too great.

[Zoey Zendaya]

Originally Posted by KairaPup

I have two dogs who've managed to wind up with patella troubles.

Kaira is not luxating now. But she managed to rip the ligament on one knee. That required surgical repair.

My other dog, Douglas, has been luxating his whole life. He is a senior rescue dog and he is very high risk for any procedure, especially anesthesia. He does "skip" sometimes when the knees hang up, but it doesn't seem to bother him and he gets on just fine. The risk of doing surgery is too great.

Saw the 2nd vet who does this surgery....ain't crazy about the "dive" he's located in and the equipment you could "knock on wood " with when I asked him about anesthesia he uses gas.....

But anyway he said Zoeys left knee needs it right way , it's bad he says before arthritis sets in....saying he had a guy wait too long and he got arthritis was so bad they couldn't do anything with him and had to put it down he said after we told him she walks and runs like there is nothing wrong ...doesn't hold up her leg at all anymore...don't know why she did a few weeks ago...
He said he doesn't recommend doing them both at the same time...it's too hard on them , but I said your putting them thru anesthesia twice that way....he asked if thats what I would want to do if I had to have both knees done.....

The other vet we saw that has been practicing for 30 years said to wait till they showed symptoms...he doesn't do that kind of surgery...

We know someone who had this other vet do their small poodle and it turned out fine.....but doesn't time also tell?
So great.... 2 completely different opinions....on to specialist appointment next week and they already told me not to give her anything to eat past 11 night before in case they need to do surgery...

Any advice out there?...

[ladyjane]

Ideally, a young pup should have the knees repaired while young. There is a huge advantage in doing that because it decreases the chance of a torn ligament later. When the knee is popping in and out, there is wear and tear on the CCL. I just adopted one of my fosters out who had her knees repaired by the board certified surgeon we use here in the Houston area when she was 11 months of age. She is now 1.5 and the vet who saw her for her final exam prior to adoption was so impressed with her knees! I can tell you that recovery on a young pup was easier than that of a TPLO surgery for a torn CCL. She had both done at the same time without any issues whatsoever!

Once they are adults, most ortho specialists don't recommend it because you can repair that knee and then have a torn ligament after, and you don't have an option then. The ligament should be repaired or the pup will have very bad arthritis. You are looking at more cost and also putting your pup through another surgery. Then, the other knee has a 50 times greater chance of a tear. The difference in cost between LP repair and CCL repair is huge!

Here are two links that you may find informative. They are written by the surgeon we use here. I don't think he mentions age as a factor, but I can tell you that my thoughts come from what I have learned from him regarding repairs as young pups.

Yorkie Haven Rescue - Patellar Luxation Info

Yorkie Haven Rescue - Cranial Cruciate Ligament Tear Info

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya

Saw the 2nd vet who does this surgery....ain't crazy about the "dive" he's located in and the equipment you could "knock on wood " with when I asked him about anesthesia he uses gas.....

But anyway he said Zoeys left knee needs it right way , it's bad he says before arthritis sets in....saying he had a guy wait too long and he got arthritis was so bad they couldn't do anything with him and had to put it down he said after we told him she walks and runs like there is nothing wrong ...doesn't hold up her leg at all anymore...don't know why she did a few weeks ago...
He said he doesn't recommend doing them both at the same time...it's too hard on them , but I said your putting them thru anesthesia twice that way....he asked if thats what I would want to do if I had to have both knees done.....

The other vet we saw that has been practicing for 30 years said to wait till they showed symptoms...he doesn't do that kind of surgery...

We know someone who had this other vet do their small poodle and it turned out fine.....but doesn't time also tell?
So great.... 2 completely different opinions....on to specialist appointment next week and they already told me not to give her anything to eat past 11 night before in case they need to do surgery...

Any advice out there?...

Yes, go to a board certified orthopedic surgeon! That is the very best advice I can give you!

That thing about the arthritis...not buying that one. And, doing them both at the same time really is not that bad AND costs less. As for two anesthetic procedures, I have never had any issues with that....anesthesia if done with the latest protocols is very safe....but, I still would do both at the same time. I have a young pup who is going to have hers done in the near future.

[Zoey Zendaya]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yes, go to a board certified orthopedic surgeon! That is the very best advice I can give you!

That thing about the arthritis...not buying that one. And, doing them both at the same time really is not that bad AND costs less. As for two anesthetic procedures, I have never had any issues with that....anesthesia if done with the latest protocols is very safe....but, I still would do both at the same time. I have a young pup who is going to have hers done in the near future.

Thank you...
My appointment with an ortho surgeon is next Thursday ...he's been on vacation the last two weeks....so I thought I'd get a couple other opinions that were the opposite and only confused me more,...
Articles are good ...thank you....just didn't realize they needed to be done so. Young.....she wasn't graded a 4 till lately

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya

Thank you...
My appointment with an ortho surgeon is next Thursday ...he's been on vacation the last two weeks....so I thought I'd get a couple other opinions that were the opposite and only confused me more,...
Articles are good ...thank you....just didn't realize they needed to be done so. Young.....she wasn't graded a 4 till lately

Honestly, even though that one article talks about grading, it is not an etched in stone thing. The puppy I had done was 2 in one and 3 in the other. I am having it done with one of my personal pups in the near future. I want hers done before she turns 2. It does give them a decreased chance of a torn ligament....that is a surgery I have had done countless times on my own pups and my fosters. I cannot tell you off the top of my head how many I have had done....it has been a lot! TPLO surgery is around $4,000 ! Way more than LP repair on both knees on a puppy.