Question for all the breeders on this list
 

Can you please tell me if you test your puppies stool before selling them to their new owners? If not, I am curious as to why not. I would really like to know the answer to this.

The day after I got my puppy, I took a stool sample in to be tested, and she had Giardia, (an internal parasite) which I am told can be very difficult to get rid of. It is also a tremendous amount of work, keeping the entire playpen area scrupulously clean so that she does not reinfect herself or infect ME. My vet says that if humans catch it, they get extreme diarrhea and can get very sick, and it is very difficult to get rid of. The vet said that a breeder only has to take in one stool sample from one pup, if one has it, they all have it. When I asked her why all breeders wouldn't test their puppies before selling them, she said it was because they did not want to spend the money. Well, if a breeder is getting $2500. for a puppy, can they not afford to test the stool sample to see if the pups have Giardia, and save the future owners a whole lot of trouble and hassles and possible infection from the pup?

When I told my breeder Kathy, that Lacy has Giardia, she said none of her pups has Giardia. But Lacy does. And she was diagnosed with it from stool taken the day after I got her. I only gave her bottled water, canned food and kibble since I got her, so there is no way she could have gotten it while she was with me in those few hours.

Maybe there are other reasons a breeder doesn't test their pups for giardia? If I was a breeder, I would certainly do so, because I would want the transition for the puppy to their new home to be as smooth as possible. And if the new owner ends up with giardia from the puppy that they sold with giardia, wouldn't the breeder feel some sense of responsibility?

Now, please don't shoot me down for this question (for those few here who like to attack, like I have been attacked before) I am curious, and would like to know the answer to this. Many thanks to all of you breeders who will answer this and enlighten me on this subject.

Seems like you were maybe dealing with a sketchy breeder? Just from reading your past posts and experiences there were a few red flags and so maybe now you are dealing with those consequences? I mean the breeder you chose to go with had one of the 2 pups you had picked out die bc she fed them chicken feet? That to me sounds redic! And she gave you the run around and Then charged you a ludicrous amount for another sick pup? Sorry if this is coming across rude that is not my intention but you have to know deep down that she is not an ethical breeder. She has sick puppies or is feeding them chicken feet??? If that's even what happened to them.. Maybe they perished from parvo or untreated guardia??? And then she even brought the other pup you had initially chosen maybe in hopes that she could double her profit and feed off of your empathy. She was most likely hopeful that you would be bonded with that dog too and want to pay top dollar for 2 sick pups! I'm sorry this happened but I know that this particular breeder (if she is even that) maybe she's a puppy broker who knows, does not have the best interest of her dogs at heart. I hope that your diligence will pay off and that your little girl gets a clean bill of health. I also hope that the guardia is the only health issue you have to deal with.

First I want to say I hope Lacy gets better and sorry you are having to go thru this with just getting her and hope you don't come down with it. Know how much problem you had trying to find your new baby. My recent purchase of two Yorkies from show beeder were perfect and had all their shots and checked in every way - was given a health certificate for the airlines signed by the vet if it was requested. So I would say yes she should have - what does it take a stool sample drop off only? I know that mine did a complete check with blood work, liver shunt, and even spayed/neutered by two babies. She would not release them until they had all their puppy shots and were fixed. I respect my show breeder and this is the second and third pup I have purchased from her. Have had my babies for about a month and not one issue as far as health.

Did you get a health certificate on Lacy plus blood work up and bile acid test results, your registration papers?

Not trying to be rude but I have never heard of feeding chicken feet to puppies - why would you do that? That would be a very red flag to me. I remember as a child my grandmother would throw them to the pigs if she was cutting up a chicken - LOL

Btw, the incubation period for giardia is such that, yes, she most definitely had giardia when she was with the breeder - so the other puppies most def have it too. Giardia is not uncommon in puppies, but it's a total pain! In addition, giardia can actually digest tissues of the small intestine in puppies (but not adult dogs) -- so I'd get Lacy on a pro-biotic ASAP or you could have longer term GI issues like I did w/ my Marcel who also had giardia as a puppy. I'd suggest Natures Farmacy probiotics...get the 8oz.

The vet isn't really correct about giardia's affect on humans. In healthy humans, it can go undetected bc of no symptoms..in others, some diarrhea...and that's about the extent of it.

Thanks, Ann, I will get some probiotics today. Do I get it at a pet store?

SO glad to hear your understanding of giarida, makes me less worried! I have ben washing my hands a 100 times a day.

do you only know if your puppy has it only when you test a stool or is there something abnormal that might hint these parasites? How do they even get this??

Most reputable breeders will only test stool if they notice a problem. If the puppies stool is off, then they will test. It sounds to me like you got a breeder who wasn't reputable (I'm not trying to be mean or judge). Most of those breeders breed lots of puppies, so they don't check each pup daily. Reputable breeders may only have one or two litters a year, so they are very familiar with their pups, so they notice if something is off.

I haven't ever bought a little puppy, so I don't know the problems that comes with that. All of my pups have been, at least, 6 months or older when I've gotten them. I prefer to skip all the puppy problems.

Most dogs become infected by drinking water contaminated with feces. Giardia then infects the small intestine, and infected dogs pass microscopic cysts in their stool. These cysts can then infect another animal or person if ingested. Giardia cysts are very resistant in the environment, and can live for many months under the correct circumstances. These cysts are a threat to pet health, and giardia is a very common cause of pet diarrhea in the United States.

Scoobstersmom posted under "Am Worried About Lacy" that her pup was fecal tested the day after they got her and the Giardi didn't show up.
Lacy may have gotten it from the bottled water whereas you (possibly drinking the same bottled water) might've been able to resist it.
-Just don't think we should be so quick to place blame...

I was only relaying what my vet told me, they are not my personal comments. All I know about giardia is what my vet and his assistant told me, and what I have read online.. They told me that Lacy would have had giardia when at the breeders, she could not have gotten it while with me in the few hours I had her before the stool test was taken. If you read my earlier comments, I said that I KNOW the breeder did NOT know Lacy had it. If a breeder doesn't know her pups have it, then you can't expect her to have them on medication. I was only asking IF some breeders tested their pups for giardi before selling them. I am very curious about that and want to know. I wasn't blaming anyone. I want to buy another pup and I now know to ask the breeder if the pup has had its stool tested. If it hasn't, I will ask for it to be done as I do not want to buy another pup with giardia.

How Do Pets Get Giardiasis?
Quote The most common means of infection is drinking water that is contaminated with Giardia cysts. Unquote
Pretty sure you wouldn't find giardia cysts in bottled water.

I posted another message which states that bottle water often contains giardia, but it has not posted yet.

My pup was a rescue that had been brought across the border from Mexico, so we sort of expected issues. She was only with the rescue for a few days, but she had been vet checked and deemed healthy. Still, I was a bit nervous about where she came from and have two other dogs, so I kept her isolated the first night and took her right to my vet the next day for my own peace of mind. She checked out fine. Perfect blood work, no parasites.

One week later she became very ill. Lethargic, vomiting, diarrhea. At that point she tested positive for Giardia. Giardia doesn't necessarily show in every stool sample. My vet seemed pretty positive that she'd had it all along and didn't catch it from my house. She could have picked it up from the rescue she was at for a few days, or she could have had it when she got there. Some dogs carry the parasite but never get sick so they never get tested or treated. Some have it a while then something causes a lowering of their immune system and then they get sick. Some get sick right away.

Sharon, I get it that you're angry. You paid top dollar for a pup and then found out she had a parasite. I was a little angry about my dog having it. I was a hassle that I didn't expect to have to deal with but in the big picture it was not that big of an issue. It's not Parvo or Rabies or liver shunt. It is just a parasite that many puppies get, not particularly life threatening. Didn't the puppy fly to you? She could have an overgrowth of the giardia from the stress of the plane ride. I think it's a risk no matter where you buy your puppy.

Diana

Also, I didn't mean that she caught giardia from the plane ride. Obviously she already had it. The stress of the plane ride could have caused an over growth that made her start showing symptoms.

Diana

The timing of the illness tells anyone here that the puppy was purchased with giardia.

I see you are new here and very interested in this puppy purchase. Are you related to the breeder and/or know her?

LadyJane: Thanks for asking. I became intrigued due to the "Am Worried About Lacy!" posts. Not ashamed to admit I care more about animals, than people—LOL; so I got sucked in to the poor-little-Lacy story, then went through and read all the posts. I do know of quite a few Yorkie and Biewer breeders, and related websites. My heart melts especially with these little ones. I just felt that Sharon was and is asking for information, and I thought I knew several sources for information or how to get it—just trying to be helpful.

P.S. LadyJane—I'm new, but not new. I've come to the forum and read posts off and on for a really long time; then I registered for a username, but didn't post for a long time. So, just new to posting. :)

Zachary, our definitions of a long time must be quite different. You said you registered for a name but then didn't post for a long time but your join date is Nov 2015. That's not very long.

Everybody starts out new but not everybody starts out being defensive.

Diana

I have been reading in the forum off and on for years, without registering. Then I registered, but did not post for while after I registered. Sorry for the misunderstanding; I will try to write more clearly...

Well it says you joined this month. :)

Again, your join date is this month.

Hi Diana, well, actually I am not angry at all that Lacy has Giardia, sorry if it sounded like that, I understand these things can happen. It is definitely NOT a big deal, it is only a big hassle, with all the cleaning, etc. lol The reason I was asking questions is because I want to know IF some breeders tested for giardia before selling their pups. I want to know the answer to that question, and I still don't know, as not many breeders have responded as to whether they do test for it or not. Maybe most of them don't, and maybe that is perfectly acceptable. But I won't know the answer to that question unless I ask. It is not to put blame on anyone, I simply want to know for my next puppy purchase. Is it okay for me to ask the breeder that I want my puppy tested for giardia before I get her? Or is that unreasonable and something that I should do myself? I don't know the answer to that question. But I do know that I do not want to buy another pup unless he is tested for giardia first.

Sharon, it's not unreasonable to ask anything you want to ask. It's your money you're spending to buy the puppy, and you should be able to ask all the questions you need to be comfortable with the purchase of the puppy. If a breeder doesn't want to answer, or doesn't want to comply with your wishes then that's a sign its not the right breeder/puppy.

The point I've been trying to make though is that even with the testing, its basically a crapshoot. A negative stool sample doesn't mean your puppy doesn't have giardia. It's a parasite that is difficult to isolate in a stool sample. It depends on what stage of development the cysts are in at the time the sample is checked. My pup tested negative for all parasites, and less than a week later she was extremely ill with lots of giardia cysts in her stool sample. Since the incubation period is 7 to 15 days, she obviously already had giardia when she tested negative the first time.

Treating my pup was a hassle, but it wouldn't stop me from purchasing another pup that may or may not have it. You had a bad experience with Lacy reacting negatively to the Panacur, but the negative reaction could have happened with any medication or even vaccinations. I had a pup that had a really bad reaction to vaccinations. That wouldn't stop me from vaccinating another pup. Stuff happens.

Diana

I told the breeder that Lacy had Giardia, and she said none of her pups has Giardia. I told her that she needed to test them, because my vet's assistant said that if one pup has it, they will all have it. And PLEASE don't shoot me down or attack me for that remark, I did not make it, it came from my vet's office! Were they wrong?

I have not heard back from my breeder that she had her other pups tested and that they did not have it. So, if she did test them, and her other pups did not have it, I think she would have told me. So, maybe she hasn't tested the others, which I don't understand, as they MAY be sold with Giardia also.

Again I must be the odd breeder out here. But yes I do a fecal on my litters in week 11.5-12. If one puppy has it, the entire litter has it. My vet always completes an extensive health exam and certificate on my puppies.

I don't know that they necessarily need to test every puppy....BUT to say they don't know? Uh...kind of weird to me. The symptoms are clear cut and they know if their dogs they are breeding have been sick or not. And, IF they have giardia in their kennel, there is no way anyone can tell me that only ONE puppy has come out with it and only one owner told them.
I would say that once they have it, they should do their level best to get rid of it...and also inform the buyer that it IS possible for it to happen.
I suppose it would take a breeder to come along and comment on this one....

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

The pups might have JUST contacted the Giardai, and so the breeder was not aware of it and that is why she said that her pups didn't have it. I don't think she was lying, she just wasn't aware of it. I am sure she was surprised. But she hasn't said that she did a stool test on any of them since i told her that Lacy has it, and my vet said you only have to do ONE stool test on one puppy, because if one has it, they all have it. So I sure hope she tests one of them and gets them meds if they have it.

If that suits you, that's fine. I do hope whatever the case, she is finding out the cause and taking care of it.

All I can say is that the email you got tonight must have used this excuse about recent exposure (which is almost insulting in my mind but what does my mind know? LOL)...after all the other ones posted today didn't fly. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Again, as long as it suits you. I still stand by what I said...I would be doing further testing if she were my puppy. Just for my own peace of mind after all this nonsense..yes, nonsense. Just no way to sell puppies in my opinion. unless of course what I am reading has not been the full story. One never knows for sure on these forums.

So I lost track of some of these posts. This Zachary person that has been posting is the breeder, on here posing as someone else - just an 'interested in Lacy' person. Right?

If that's the case, I would throw everything she said so far out the window, assume my pup came from a backyard breeder, and start from scratch. If she didn't have the courage or the pride to come on here and post as herself and stand up for what she believes in and believes is the truth, she is not a reliable person or one I would trust.

This is a great website and I have learned some really good stuff here, but some pretty nutty stuff happens here too. Sorry your breeder put you in this position, Sharon.

Diana