Sharon, in your reply to MarkfromSea you say you paid $2500 US - $3400 Canadian for Lacy. Now you say you paid $3600. I know it isn't important in the greater scheme of things but when people are questioning whether you are being 100% truthful in regards to everything you have said about this transaction it just makes me wonder.

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry you are still fighting this when you should just be enjoying your sweet little girl. Hope this is cleared up soon. Jan

Hi Cherie, I am so very sorry, for a one number typo error, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention, I really appreciate it. At today's rate, $2500. U.S. would be $3439.25 Canadian.

Please feel free to contact Kathy Scotts at Scotts Biewers to verify that everything I have said is 100% correct. Have a great weekend, Cherie!

No problem, Sharon. Thanks for the reply.

My emphasis is just I hope the pup that is sick, gets well.

Thanks for bringing the issue of giardia to the forefront. Your story should help others.

Giardia in Dogs | Pets & Parasites: The Pet Owner's Parasite Resource

Wonder if we have gardia in Europe? I'll ask my vet this week when we go in for our checkups. Didn't even know it existed.

The way it was explained to me when I was about 11 and backpacking, it's super common in wild animals in the woods/wild. Referred to as beaver fever and the #1 reason to boil water for a few minutes, then cooling, before drinking when taking your water from a lake or river. For backpackers, severe diarrhea from beaver fever causes dehydration and if they happen to be in high elevations, severe altitude sickness can result. This would only be pertinent in the Rockies and Cascades... LOL The East Coast only has hills! LOL

I would be VERY surprised if giardia isn't a world wide issue.

What I understood and still understand is that adult animals carry the parasite with little to no observable affects. It's the very young and very old that the parasite causes giardia.

This actually clears it up better with all the names: Giardia | Parasites | CDC

Mark, thanks so much for the reply. I will be reading the info you sent me. Thanks again

Sharon, I am very sorry that you feel taken advantage of and that Kathy did everything wrong. The subject has been discussed fully so I think now it is time to enjoy your dogs and the holidays. I believe Kathy wants to post something but I would not blame her if she decided against it. I don't believe that anyone posting would remain open minded.

I stop posting on Yorkie Talk for this very reason. If I have a problem with someone I am doing business with I call and tell them. I have been attacked for just telling all of you who Kathy Scott is so you know more about her. I am guilty of something just because I know Kathy and provided more information about her.

Sharon, I read your post and appreciate you taking the time to respond. As you told me in a private message, you have people pushing you to destroy Kathy and to post all of these accusations. You accuse Zachary of being Kathy but you do not tell us who is pushing you to destroy Kathy. Your minds are made up and I will respect that but I will not be a part of the discussion and destruction anymore.

I hope everyone can move on from this and find some forgiveness for Kathy if you believe her to be wrong. Maybe reaching out to her and help her be a better breeder if that is indeed what you believe she needs. Solve the problem instead of creating this hate and drama.

I will not be reading any more of this post so replies will go unread. I like a more positive world about me. You are all dog lovers and I am sure you want to spend more time with these precious dogs. Hoping all of you have a peaceful holiday season.

Sharon still has a puppy with giardia and you are advising her to just enjoy her pup? Are you serious when you say this?

Sorry, but I have no reason whatsoever to reach out to your friend, the breeder being discussed. And, as for her maybe posting...gee it would be interesting to hear another personality of hers. You many not think Zachary is her, but I can assure you it is about 99% positively her. She really didn't do a good job of deflection as she intended. I laughed out loud when you suggested that WE should help a person who is selling living, breathing little pups to become a better breeder. Isn't that putting the cart before the horse??
It is HER job...or WAS her job to educate herself prior...which honestly I am sure she did. I believe she made a decision to do what many breeders do....keep the money and blame anything that happens on the person who bought the pup. pfft

Informing someone of your experience with a breeder is creating drama and hate? OMG such a typical thing to say. LOL that's what every breeder who gets nailed with something bad says...everyone is a hater....OH and the breeders in question almost always have sick family members and people are supposed to feel sorry for them...not the poor pups they care so little about. All those pups are to them is $$$$$. I have heard these songs over and over ad nauseum over the years. Your friend quite likely is used to BSing people and in this case she couldn't...then to top it off tried every way possible through Zachary D to accuse Sharon of doing something wrong..yet another breeder ploy. We have seen them all. :thumbdown

And by the way....no one, including you, was attacked. The only drama I saw was your friend logging in as another user and trying to insult peoples' intelligence. For instance...saying she has been a member for a while but just decided to post...YET it was right under her User ID that she had just joined. We are not stupid people here..... and we didn't create drama...she did. If she had a clue, she would have contacted Sharon and done the right thing from the start.

Guess you may not see this...but others will. It needed to be responded to.

Tricia, I think forgiveness might be easier to come by if Kathy were willing to step up and admit she was wrong. As for the Giardia - eh, pups get it. I brought one home a few years ago that ended up getting very sick with it. I sucked it up, cleaned up after her, treated her three times before she cleared, and paid the bill for it. I was just about as pissed off as Sharon is for having to deal with it. BUT, she was a little rescue. I didn't pay thousands of dollars for her or fly half way across the country to pick her up. If I had, I sure as heck would have expected some response from the breeder and I would have expected her to honor her health agreement that I was getting a healthy pup and I would have expected her to put her money where her mouth is and at least cover the vet bills. Correct me if I'm wrong Sharon, but I don't think Kathy has done either one of those things.

Also, I think it was pretty tasteless on your part to refer to anything possibly said between you and Sharon in private message. Private messages are just that. Things people say PRIVATELY.

Diana

:thumbup: Pretty much says it all

Sharon, I know we got off to a bad start but I want to tell you that I am sorry that you are having to deal with this parasite that won't go away and the never ending defense of a irresponsible breeder from a "concerned" friend. You should be enjoying lacy and not having to deal with meds and poop cleaning. I hope that this problem is resolved soon and you and lacy can begin a wonderful stress free life together.

I haven't read every post, but, something about this popped into my head a few days ago. Correct me if I'm wrong on the sequence of events: Original agreed upon puppy died and the breeder didn't tell the purchaser until she arrived at the airport? Two replacement pups to choose from were brought to the airport, but, one of those were also obviously sick? Did the purchaser end up selecting the last visually "healthy" dog out of the three pups? Then, it got sick immediately upon arriving at the purchaser's home? Could this be one of those genetic things or, is it that typical for that many in a litter to become ill, even deathly so? I understand if one has giardia it gets passed to the water bowl or feces and they all get it. If it's not that typical, common, then what do other breeders do to avoid or eliminate the occurrence of giardia in their litters? Extremely clean conditions inside and not letting them outside on grass or dirt? That sanitizer the shelters use?

I could be wrong, but I think the original post was query about whether it is mandatory/customary for breeders to test puppies for Giardia?:confused:

Like a cat you are curious to see what ppl are saying, you may not respond, but you will read all. As for ppl pushing Sharon into destroy Karen lol, Karen has done that to herself. Sharon should put up a thread in the breeder section about her experience with Karen, but she has not. You are the one who keeps coming back and opening the can of worms, now you ask for members to reach out to an EXPERIENCED 10 year breeder to show her where she went wrong lol, really.

I do not think Kathy needs to be told when a promised puppy died days before she was to be picked up yet Kathy never informed Sharon until the night before she was to fly to get both puppies.

I do not think Kathy needs to be told when the 2nd promised puppy the brother became deadly sick days before he was to be pick up Kathy did not inform Sharon until the night she was to fly to pick up the puppies.

I do not think Kathy needs to be told it was sneaky and dishonest that she had no intention of calling Sharon, she was going to let her fly to Wa. and offer her 2 other puppies.

I do not think Kathy needs to be told when the girl puppy died and the brother was on deaths doorstep days before they were to be picked up she was wrong to not inform Sharon right away, she was wrong in going to have Sharon fly to Wa. and offer her 2 other puppies.

Karen is all about the almighty $$$$ and that was the reason Karen never informed Sharon of the death of of girl or the boy near death.

So you want YT members to reach out to Karen and inform her that she is a sneaky, dishonest breeder and how she handled this sale was wrong, and you really think she will change her deceitful ways.

Thanks.... there were some answers to that some where in there, LOL, I can't recall where or what the answers were though.

Maybe a better title would have been "another breeder bashing thread".

I'm thinking in this particular case, a responsible breeder would have put ALL of their pups on hold once, not just one but, two pups got sick at their birthplace and even one of them died.

There would be pressures to the contrary though by even a responsible breeder if a customer had already purchased a plane ticket. The customer would likely be VERY angry about losing the cost of a ticket. In hindsight, it would have been the lesser of two evils... in hindsight! There's a lesson here that all breeders and customers can learn by. Breeders have the final say as to when they release their pups, customers need to trust that the breeder has their best interest at heart. Obviously, not in this particular case, but, hopefully you see my point. Hopefully it helps someone out there.

It's not a funny story, but your highlighted sentence is hilarious.

Tricia, what you said is totally UNTRUE. I did not send you a message saying people were pushing me to destroy Kathy, that is just absurd!

[QUOTE=Scoobstersmom;4608554]Tricia, I think forgiveness might be easier to come by if Kathy were willing to step up and admit she was wrong. Unquote
---Diana, you are absolutely right here.

Quote:I didn't pay thousands of dollars for her or fly half way across the country to pick her up. If I had, I sure as heck would have expected some response from the breeder and I would have expected her to honor her health agreement that I was getting a healthy pup and I would have expected her to put her money where her mouth is and at least cover the vet bills. Correct me if I'm wrong Sharon, but I don't think Kathy has done either one of those things. Unquote
---You are right Diana, she has not offered to pay any vet bills or even asked how Lacy was doing.

Lacy has just finished her third round of treatment, but I do not think it has been effective, her stool is still very soft.
And I understand that giardia is very common, but I don't think it is common for a pup to have to go through three rounds of treatment, but maybe I am wrong. And my vet said that some dogs never get rid of it and do do die from it. So, it is a REAL concern for me, and takes away a lot of the joy of having a new puppy, wondering all the time if my pup is going to be one of the few that ends up dying from it. What i am upset about the the most, is that all of this aggravation and worry and vet bills could have been prevented by ONE simple stool test from one of the puppies. When i pay $3400. for a puppy, i expect to get a healthy one, i don't think that is too much to ask for, is it?

Well said, Matese, thank you.
For everyone who read her message, when she said KAREN, she meant KATHY. :-)

[quote=SharonSnowbird;4608865]Sharon, I understand your frustration. I don't know how common it is, but my pup did three rounds of Panacur over a few months time before she cleared the Giardia. I do think most pups recover fairly quickly, but I can also see how it could be fatal for a small young dog as they are already generally fragile anyway. My little gal was initially pretty sick - lethargic with quite a bit of vomiting and lots of diarrhea. In addition to the Panacur, she also got Cerenia for the vomiting and some sub q fluids a few times to keep her hydrated. The good news is she's three now, and healthy and happy.

Hopefully she has, but there is no way to know for sure whether Lacy has cleared the Giardia until the vet checks a stool sample. She could have residual soft stools from stress, medication, allergies, maybe the food she's eating just doesn't agree with her - dogs have soft stools for lots of reasons that are not related to Giardia. Also, my vet has said the same thing - that some dogs never do clear it and become adult carriers with no symptoms. I recently had my Lucy in for her annual check-up. I brought a stool sample to check for the Giardia but my vet declined to test her and said we wouldn't again unless she had symptoms. She said that if we did find Giardia at this point, we likely wouldn't treat her anyway and that if my other dogs were going to catch it from her they already would have.

As for expecting a healthy dog - of course. We all have that expectation. As for Lacy coming down with Giardia, that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. It's common and lots of pups get it. Many of the breeders here have stated that they don't test for it if the litter appears healthy. Since Lacy didn't have diarrhea until a day or two after she was in your home, the breeder wouldn't have a reason to suspect it. Of course that doesn't mean she didn't already have the parasite when she came to you, or make her breeder any less responsible. It's Kathy's not accepting responsibility or stepping up to help with the vet bills that is shady.

I sure hope Lacy is cleared by the vet soon. Be sure to let us know.

Diana

Hi Sharon - I have already said this in another post quite a while ago now, but let me emphasize it again. When an adult dog gets giardia, there may be none-to-very-mild-to-medium symptoms...you treat, and it's resolved. In PUPPIES - giardia will actually *digest* the delicate tissues in the small intestine - and this can cause GI issues for SEVERAL MONTHS - and can even go up to a year! This can mean diarrhea, mushy/grainy stools, soft stools, mucusy / gel-like stools etcetera -- and this will continue unless you make an effort to heal the small intestine. One thing you must do is re-populate the small intestine w/ the needed flora and I would start to do this ASAP.

I'd recommend Natures Farmacy probiotic / digestive enzyme blend - get the 8oz jar as it will last you forever. Otherwise, seek another high quality probiotic blend that will help Lucy's sm intestine heal so her poos can start to be normal again at some point.

I went thru *all* of what you're going through w/ my Marcel when he was a puppy - he too had giardia, and severely, as a very young puppy and it was just devastating to his GI....he had mushy/grainy/gel poos for months and months. It *will* take time to heal this, as the giardia bacteria are very destructive to the GI tissues in puppies.

Thank you vey much, Anne, I just ordered it on Amazon. I sure wonder why vets don't tell us these things.

[quote=Scoobstersmom;4608890]Thank you Diana! :-)