Continued issues between granddaughter and puppy

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I am so sorry for what you are experiencing......especially sorry for Zoey.....she does not understand grand kids, small child, etc....all she thinks she knows, is HER space is being invaded by a small, loud, fast moving person that she is not equipped to deal with. I have absolutely no idea how to work thru this with Zoey....this is exactly why I do not sell my Yorkies to households with a child present under the age of 8 years old....depending on the size of the child, I MAY consider a child as young as 6, but never under that. The dog more often than not has a difficult time adjusting and accepting a small child that in the pups mind, is encroaching on everything that belongs to the pup! And young children under the age of 6 are just not mature enough with motor skills to safely interact around a small dog, resulting many times in injury to the pup from getting stepped on, or dropped........the majority of time, it turns into a battle for "ownership" of the human, the space, the toys, time, etc....

Good luck with this, let us know how it works out....praying for the best outcome for Zoey as well as the child.

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I wish all breeders and rescuers thought like this. The numbers of yorkies I see that are rehomed due to children is crazy. While they may be toys, they are still terriers and terriers do not usually mix with small active children. Are there exceptions to the rule??...very few and for that reason I say no. I might consider a child who has been raised with a yorkie or two...but to adopt to a person with a young child as a gift for the child? Nope..not going to happen.

I do hope this works out and that Zoey is not another statistic. I think you will have to work very hard to make this work...and your first step should be looking at Zoey as a sweet pup ..not a bully. She is doing what is natural. You need to look at her as the terrier she is and fix what is clearly broken here. It is also hard for children...they want to hug the pups and the pups most of the time don't want that. Maybe it will be telling your grandchild to avoid Zoey and then going to the story and buying a stuffed toy and tell her to love that until she is older.

[navillusc]

First, I don't know whether or not you received any advice from any source that there 'might' be issues before bringing a Yorkie puppy together with a small child, and I am not a breeder or any kind of 'expert' either, so have no comment on that at all since it is kind of a 'moot point' now anyway and easing the tension for all concerned is the important part so you can avoid danger to both Yorkie and child. Since neither has the age/wisdom to understand the perspective of the other, I couldn't guess if 'complete confidence' is in your future or not, either...at least not until both child and dog are considerably older.

Since your baby is a Yorkie/Poodle mix, I will say that I had such a mix from when I was a very young/pre-teen, and had a child born when my dog was much older than yours is now. I had absolutely no issues whatsoever...my dog LOVED my newborn from the beginning.

It has been my experience with all dogs and cats I have had, that the adult animals recognize babies, even of other species. However, babies of one species DO NOT recognize babies of same or another species. I say that knowing my first child as a 6-month-old would point to other young children saying, "Baby, baby" when he was the younger child...LOL, but with all my baby animals, they saw other babies as "equals"...not as babies like the adult animals did.

I can also tell you that when I only had two Yorkies, both loved children for the first couple of years and strange children could run up to them, shreiking, pet them, hug them, kiss them...whatever...with no issue until ONE CHILD in particular decided to hide and jump out repeatedly, shrieking at my Yorkies in the cart. My Brody baby was completely unnerved by this behavior and I had no control over that boy of about 7-10 years old...it happened in a place of business, and I never knew 'when' the kid would pop out again either. I could not get him to come meet Brody, and no way to diffuse the situation except to remove Brody from the store. Brody has never been completely comfortable with all children again. Sometimes he is fine, but sometimes he takes an immediate dislike...you can see his body language change even before he starts growling, and I have to be extremely careful. He even takes an extreme dislike to some adults now, and I watch his every move around all strangers even though he is fine most of the time. I tend to pick him up out of the cart in a store any time anyone approaches so I have control. So, if there was a 'prior incident' that set your puppy 'against' your grandchild, I am guessing resolving it may be more difficult...dunno.

The only possible suggestion I could make would be what I would try. Like you, I would also ask the child to mostly go about his business quietly and calmly and largely 'ignore' the dog to help the dog understand there IS NO THREAT, not move suddenly, or shriek unexpectedly, etc. as young children normally do..difficult for one so young. I would also try to minimize the dog and grandchild being alone...meaning 'without me present'...until the dog is much more adult at least. In the meantime, since I do mean several years, I would look for a way to 'convert' any 'aggression' into a 'play play' state for the dog.

I would definitely simultaneously work on "leave it" and "stop" and "no" and "stay" and "come" and any other command that I could use to separate dog from child...especially training when the child was not around, and also training with the child present but without 'using' the child 'for' training...using a treat or other 'desirable' object but with the child nearby somewhere...just not involved. Then, if the dog became aggressive toward the child at any other time...since I would always be present and watching, I would see if my commands ("leave it" etc. would 'translate' for the dog into NOT proceeding with the action toward the child and, if so, profusely reward the dog for it. I would reward the child later with an explanation right then, since I could speak to the child right then and 'promise' the treat for later....yes...a little sneaky...LOL

I would not have the child give the dog a treat as a conversion...I think it would be too rewarding for the dog for 'unwanted'...and downright dangerous...behavior and reinforce the 'aggressive' behavior. But, I think, if appropriate, I might 'arm' the child with a toy that the dog has never seen, for example...that the child could 'produce, squeak, and toss gently away for the dog, saying 'play play' to distract the dog and diffuse the situation...I would have the child do this when the dog was NOT being aggressive, too. NOTE: Saying this, I am thinking of my Brody, since we have a new grandchild on the way ourselves, and Brody LOVES toys, but, while I do not think he would be 'jealous' IF my grandchild had one of his toys, he KNOWS all of his toys and he LOVES NEW toys! Bear in mind that for this to have the slightest chance of working IMHO, I would, many times a day, constantly reinforce the 'training' by doing the same thing for the dog myself without the child anywhere around.

Again, I am no expert on any matter...these are just what I would try, should I find myself in the situation you are facing. I do hope, whichever method you choose or route you take, that your whole family ends up in a safe and loved experience. It is not fair to child or dog for either to be 'banished' or 'harmed' over it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by navillusc

First, I don't know whether or not you received any advice from any source that there 'might' be issues before bringing a Yorkie puppy together with a small child, and I am not a breeder or any kind of 'expert' either, so have no comment on that at all since it is kind of a 'moot point' now anyway and easing the tension for all concerned is the important part so you can avoid danger to both Yorkie and child. Since neither has the age/wisdom to understand the perspective of the other, I couldn't guess if 'complete confidence' is in your future or not, either...at least not until both child and dog are considerably older.

.

That information is free on the internet...certainly free here. The topic comes up quite a bit. I just wish people would do research first rather than after...and I do wish breeders and rescuers would be more thoughtful and educate people who are looking for pups for their babies.

As for a moot point....perhaps in her case, yes, but it still needs to be said if only for the other people who read this forum.

I hope it all works out for the best...that the op will listen and work hard to make it work out.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

That information is free on the internet...certainly free here. The topic comes up quite a bit. I just wish people would do research first rather than after...and I do wish breeders and rescuers would be more thoughtful and educate people who are looking for pups for their babies. perhaps

As for a moot point....in her case, yes, but it still needs to be said if only for the other people who read this forum.

I hope it all works out for the best...that the op will listen and work hard to make it work out.

Please forgive my noticing, but, if "that information is free on the internet" but a "moot point...in her case" I cannot help but wonder why "it still needs to be said" since "other people who read this forum" can, apparently, find many other "free" copies of the information "on the internet" as well as "here". What I "wish" is mightily unimportant, especially since there is a current, somewhat dangerous situation brewing between two babies...a canine baby and a human baby, and I, too, sincerely hope there is an amicable solution.



To the OP:

There are many truly knowledgeable people 'here' in YT and I absolutely hope some of them will see your thread and offer suggestions for your consideration, to help you deal with the situation you are facing at this time. Take care.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Please forgive my noticing, but, if "that information is free on the internet" but a "moot point...in her case" I cannot help but wonder why "it still needs to be said" since "other people who read this forum" can, apparently, find many other "free" copies of the information "on the internet" as well as "here". What I "wish" is mightily unimportant, especially since there is a current, somewhat dangerous situation brewing between two babies...a canine baby and a human baby, and I, too, sincerely hope there is an amicable solution.



To the OP:

There are many truly knowledgeable people 'here' in YT and I absolutely hope some of them will see your thread and offer suggestions for your consideration, to help you deal with the situation you are facing at this time. Take care.

Yes, there are suggestions here on YT and I was referring to the comments made by Yorkiemom1 and Magic Genie, two breeders who made the point in the first place.

It is what it is and you betcha ... there is good advice here along with bad, just like anywhere.

We all have said that we wish the OP well in figuring out this mess. She does need to realize that no matter who tells her that yorkies are fine with children, the fact remains that in most cases it is a failure....not because of the pups who are doing what comes natural but because of the owners. She needs to realize what she is dealing with. It is not natural for a yorkie to love children...it takes work. In my opinion, it is working with the children to leave the yorkie alone! I made a suggestion for a stuffed animal at her grandchild's age because it IS safer. Children are naturally loveable and huggable and that can be very annoying to a yorkie who only has his growl and/or teeth to express himself.

You clearly didn't like my opinion but it is as valuable as yours or anyone elses imho. And, as for your snide remark about there being knowledgeable people on YT and you hope they see this thread, I assume you have included yourself with the rest of us not so knowledgeable folks commenting.

As to your last line...looks like you are wishing/hoping as well.

[ladyjane]

OP: I read your post again and am wondering now if perhaps Zoey is trying to play with your granddaughter. I didn't realize she is only 8 months old. I have a 7 month old pup and she loves to play with my pups...often growling and barking and biting their ears .. play stuff. It's a puppy thing. Maybe when she is doing this, your granddaughter could try to start playing fetch with her? Might help her run some of her energy off. Definitely do not allow your granddaughter to pick her up or hug her...or put her face close to her.

I would definitely find a way for this puppy to get some active play time!!

[booboosdad]

I have to ask because I also have a 15 lb. Yorkie-Poodle mix. Is the dog actually growling, baring teeth, or just making a throaty sound and a few yips and barks? Mine does the latter all the time. My wife told him one day "Don't growl at me", but he wasn't growling. Mine does this when he wants something. Usually a treat or one of the rawhide chews that he absolutely loves. Did Chloe maybe have something in her hand she wanted? She also may have just been asking for something. This may be why Zoey is trying to grab Chloes hand. It might be as simple as just his way of saying "Chloe, can I have a (cookie,treat,etc.)?". Just offering a different theory.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by booboosdad

I have to ask because I also have a 15 lb. Yorkie-Poodle mix. Is the dog actually growling, baring teeth, or just making a throaty sound and a few yips and barks? Mine does the latter all the time. My wife told him one day "Don't growl at me", but he wasn't growling. Mine does this when he wants something. Usually a treat or one of the rawhide chews that he absolutely loves. Did Chloe maybe have something in her hand she wanted? She also may have just been asking for something. This may be why Zoey is trying to grab Chloes hand. It might be as simple as just his way of saying "Chloe, can I have a (cookie,treat,etc.)?". Just offering a different theory.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

OP: I read your post again and am wondering now if perhaps Zoey is trying to play with your granddaughter. I didn't realize she is only 8 months old. I have a 7 month old pup and she loves to play with my pups...often growling and barking and biting their ears .. play stuff. It's a puppy thing. Maybe when she is doing this, your granddaughter could try to start playing fetch with her? Might help her run some of her energy off. Definitely do not allow your granddaughter to pick her up or hug her...or put her face close to her.

I would definitely find a way for this puppy to get some active play time!!

Agree - this is why I suggested a behaviorist. There could be many reasons for the behavior but its all speculation on our part as well as the OP if she doesn't know how to interpret what the puppy is trying to say.

I highly doubt its aggression unless the dog has been abused in someway and, even then, aggression is a bi-product of fear in these circumstances.

I brought in a behaviorist for Teddy around 8 months old and, if nothing else, learned that I had a lot to learn. I was reminded that dogs don't speak human but I can speak dog with the right training!

Good luck!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Agree - this is why I suggested a behaviorist. There could be many reasons for the behavior but its all speculation on our part as well as the OP if she doesn't know how to interpret what the puppy is trying to say.

I highly doubt its aggression unless the dog has been abused in someway and, even then, aggression is a bi-product of fear in these circumstances.

I brought in a behaviorist for Teddy around 8 months old and, if nothing else, learned that I had a lot to learn. I was reminded that dogs don't speak human but I can speak dog with the right training!

Good luck!

I much prefer behaviorists over trainers but sometimes a good one is hard to find and they usually are a bit more money....but definitely well worth it.

Which makes me think of another option....

OP you might want to read "The Loved Dog" by Tamar Geller

Here is her website to get an idea of what she is about:

The Loved Dog | Dog Obedience & Training | Doggy Kennels & Day Care | Grooming & Boarding for Dogs in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica & Culver City

[Oddsock]

Does Zoey have a safe place in the room, she can go to, that the grand daughter can't touch. Our children were always taught it the dog goes to it's bed or crate, then it is out of bounds. When the dogs(felt unsafe or) had enough, it was a place they could go to.
Perhaps if Zoey felt she could get away from Cloe she may feel less uptight around her.

Children can be noisy and something that seems safe to us, maybe seen differently by a tiny, vulnerable dog. Zoey is your dog and needs you to keep her safe, emotionally as well as physically. Some dogs never love children, even if they are safe around them.


Our Caleb growls, and it is nearly always in play. It has been misinterpreted by visitors, he's a big softy, and loves to play fight if you pick up certain toys. Knowing what your dog is trying to say, is so important.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Oddsock

Does Zoey have a safe place in the room, she can go to, that the grand daughter can't touch. Our children were always taught it the dog goes to it's bed or crate, then it is out of bounds. When the dogs(felt unsafe or) had enough, it was a place they could go to.
Perhaps if Zoey felt she could get away from Cloe she may feel less uptight around her.

Children can be noisy and something that seems safe to us, maybe seen differently by a tiny, vulnerable dog. Zoey is your dog and needs you to keep her safe, emotionally as well as physically. Some dogs never love children, even if they are safe around them.


Our Caleb growls, and it is nearly always in play. It has been misinterpreted by visitors, he's a big softy, and loves to play fight if you pick up certain toys. Knowing what your dog is trying to say, is so important.

[JadeD]

I wish I could witness the dogs behavior. My puppies growl when they play but never in a bad way. It is so hard to know if the dog is trying to play with the little girl.

I hope everything gets worked out. I still highly recommend training classes with the dog. It will help them to understand what is going on.

I relate to my dogs so well and I have a lot of experience so I am pretty comfy knowing what my dogs are trying to do. It comes from experience of owning dogs all my life and also taking training classes with previous dogs. I am able to do the training of my dogs pretty good. I have even worked with friend's dogs that they could not train because I really connect well with dogs. I show the person how to train (that I learned in training classes) and point them in the right direction.

Please look into a training class and you can address this with the trainer and they can help you.

[gemy]

Young children and young dogs should never be left alone together - no matter how much the dog weighs. Big puppy --small child can easily get bowled over - small puppy and child - usually the puppy can be easily injured. Neither one has the motor skills or intellectual maturity to control their behaviour. Children should never pick up puppies - be they large or small pups. This is a high risk action for either dog or child or both! Also hugging is not advised at least in the young stages.

If your grand child comes to visit either the pup is placed in an xpen or crate for the duration and or if you allow your dog out I suggest tethering the dog around your waist. This way you insure you are always present when pup and child interact.

The training suggestions are helpfull - go to class - and work as well at home with leave it - STOP DROP IT etc.

There is a very old saying the smaller younger the child the larger the dog should be. Now having said that - training of both is still required very much so.

I think growling has many levels - but I believe that if you are concerned then that growling is probably not good at all. You can seek a behaviourist as been suggested.

I hope that you can update us when you have had a chance to implement some of the great suggestions here.