Woo Hoo! YT cannot be bullied. Two sides to every story and each has a chance to share their side respectfully. It is up to us as the viewers to decide which side we come down on. I will share my opinion in a later post after reading the entire thread but wanted to pop on now to applaud this post.

Whew! Just read the entire thread. I have tried to compose my thoughts so I do not respond with the passion I feel. I am so very sorry that poor puppy died and am so sorry for the OP who were prepared to love this baby and welcome him into their homes with open arms. This tragedy can occur to even the best of breeders which is why the best of breeders offer their health guarantees. I will not judge whether or not this breeder is one of the best, a horrible puppy mill, or somewhere in between. I will simply say that a horrible tragedy has occurred and that is what the health guarantee is all about. It is simple. It is black and white. It should be honored. Whether the breeder is sick and whether or not people should or not sympathize with the OP are immaterial.

continued
 

Piper our first was born March 23 2012 and we got her fathers day weekend of that year. I believe she was almost 12 weeks? Cash was born July 8th 2014 and got him on October 3rd 2014. He passed on November 2nd 2014.


Thank you all again for your continued support. I must say to member smelcerk I like your brief summary of how this should be looked at. Black and white. Bottom line a contract was breeched and she be honored.

I've been thinking exactly the same thing. All of the discussions about the website, breeding practices, prices, number of pups, etc. only serve to complicate the situation and create a distraction.

The bottom line and the only relevant issues are:

(1) Firebrand presented a contract that was completely of their making. Did it cover congenital genetic defects, such as liver shunt?

(2) Did that contract agree to refund money or replace the puppy if such a defect were found in the puppy?

(3) Was an autopsy performed by a reputable source that proved this defect was present?

If the answer to all three is YES, then it IS very simple. Cut the check and be done with it. While the rest of the discussion is important and could probably use it's own discussion thread, it simply isn't relevant to settling the OP's issue.

[QUOTE=KazzyK810;4510217[COLOR=red]]"our website", "we are always open to new ideas for the business", "our numbers indicate that". ...[/COLOR]are you just a friend or part owner in the business? Or the breeder herself under a false name? Seems like a slip of the tongue a few too many times in my opinion.

As to there still being a " demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with production", this implies that Diane is still breeding. ??? Any reputable breeder of yorkies, knows that small dogs are more likely to run into complications giving birth that may necessitate an emergency C-section and as such have funds set aside specifically for such complications that may arise when whelping. If Diane does not have the funds to reimburse the clients whose puppy died from a congenital defect, one would assume she also doesn't have the funds to protect the life and welfare of her breeding bitches either, yet she continues to breed. Again, major red flag that this is not the kind of breeder that a potential yorkie purchaser should do business with![/QUOTEE


Exactly Kazzy...especially the red....all the rest too...I agree.


And today I am feeling completely uncivilized so I will say this entire thread and responses from Jennifer literally made me cringe and all but puke, ...I'd have to quote each of her posts and comment to each one to truly convey my aversion, it is my absolute opinion that this is a broad scale business a.k.a. puppy mill, being run by greeders......."....keep up with production" seriously, your choice or words really suck.


I did proof reading for several years, I work within the legal realm everyday...I can spot a phony a mile away...puhleasssssseeee.


To the OP and husband. I am truly sorry you got sucked in to this situation by being lucky enough the first time to get a pup from these Yorkie Producers that wasn't ill, I know very well having lost pups in the last couple of years what it is like to lose a family member. I have a pup now that comes from a puppymill, her ailments/illnesses/expenses because of this kind of Yorkie Production is immeasurable, truly....I know your pain and I know how the validation by the greeder will allow you a small yet valuable victory toward closure, I do hope you get your refund...ultimately I do not believe for a second these greeders will ever admit to any blame etc., the fact that the first thing she said to you was "you killed my....." shows me how truly insensitive, greedy and intimidating these people are/tried to be....hold your heads up, stay the course and bring justice to this poor puppies little life...

a.k.a. for tax purposes....

Hello everyone,

I am deeply sorry for the loss of Zook4mud’s puppy, a life lost so early is not easy on anyone. Regrettably, I did not address this concern sooner as I was in the midst of receiving news of my own personal medical diagnosis. My biggest mistake was failing to let the buyer know how severe my diagnosis was and as a result putting their situation on the back burner. I finally had a chance to sit down and thoroughly go through the package the buyer sent me. What hurts me the most is that pertinent information was withheld from their public testimony. I was made to look like I was the only party at fault resulting in permanently damaging remarks from those who responded. Despite all of this, the greatest satisfaction I get out of my business is making people happy. Of course, I want to meet Zook4mud eye-to-eye and reconcile this situation as peacefully as possible.

We are all upset at the loss of Cash, he was one of Firebrand’s own. He spent the first 12 weeks of his life at our home socializing with our family of Yorkies. We love all of our puppies and seek to find excellent homes for each of them. When Zook4mud returned to us in search of their second puppy a little less than a year after adopting their first Firebrand puppy we were more than happy to help them find them the right one. We remained in constant communication for the next several months exchanging emails, calls, and text messages in order to find the right puppy for them. Three months ago the decision was finalized and Cash was to be the newest member of their family.

At the time of Cash’s passing, things became heated over the phone and I wrongfully accused Zook4mud for being responsible for his death. I was very frustrated at how the veterinarian may have treated the puppy fearing that the prescribed treatment would cause more harm than good. My mistake was letting a personal health issue negatively impact the way I conducted business, and I resent letting my emotions get the better of me in an extremely difficult situation. My failure to respond to Zook4mud in a timely manner left them feeling abandoned and forced them to take matters into their own hands. For this, I am inexplicably sorry and I have learned from this unfortunate lesson.

I have read the 28 page packet that Zook4mud sent to me, letters, reports, and legalese included. Having remained in constant contact with the family over the first few weeks to aid in assisting with Cash’s transition into his new home, I was surprised to learn about pertinent information that had never been mentioned in our conversations. In two separate veterinary reports sent to me in the 28 page packet I learned that Cash had been dropped; once by a child and another time from a kitchen counter. In the more severe case the puppy’s neck was cocked for an extended period of time, and he had trouble moving. The veterinarian reported that the puppy suffered trauma and depression in the diagnoses from the falls.

There was one document that was provided for me during our communication; it was a blood work report that they had performed on Cash after he apparently vomited. I know now that the day of he went in for that test was also the same day he experienced his first fall. It was also admitted to me that the Zook4mud was not staying “religious” with my advised nutrition regimen. Caring very much for our puppies, I became seriously concerned for the Cash’s health and on October 13th, 2014 I suggested it would be best for the the family to send the the puppy back to me, all expenses paid. I offered to replace the puppy and strongly encouraged that they did not seek additional specialized care and incur any further expenses. They did not consider my offer and decided to continue seeking help from specialists. On November 2nd, 2014 I was informed that the puppy died. This was particularly frustrating for me because I tried my best to prevent this exact scenario.

As a small business owner, I believe in working with customers on a one-on-one basis, providing individual care for them before, during, and after their new puppy is adopted. I have built a trust between my buyers and myself and we both agree to honor all agreements, verbal or written. Nevertheless, I got into a habit of sending along the contract with the puppies asking that buyers send back a signed copy when the puppy is received because I trust them. I didn’t get a copy of the signed contract from Zook4mud until I got a copy of the puppy’s autopsy report; they were mailed in the same envelope. Despite all this, I take pride in always making a fair decision. In reading the Michigan autopsy final report, the lab states “The gross and histologic findings are consistent with a portosystemic shunt. There was no evidence of a concurrent or infectious disease process within the tissues examined. Such a portosystemic shunt at this early age, combined with poor appetite and insufficient weight gain over weeks as reported in the history, suggests that this is most likely a congenital lesion.” In light of this, I am prepared to resolve this issue with Zook4mud.

I am in this business because I love breeding quality Yorkies and I love sharing the joy they bring into people’s homes. Firebrand Yorkies has been in business for 35 years, the last 7 of which have been run by my husband and I with occasional help from my family members. You’ll be hard-pressed to find a customer of mine with a negative story to share. Our reputation is something we have earned and it’s the thing we are most proud of. I’ve met wonderful people through my business and maintain good relations with all of them. Many of my customers are repeat customers.

I fully admit that this situation could have been resolved more amicably and I hope my post has shed more light on the situation. I have reached out to Zook4mud to privately to resolve the matter.

Just for all intense and purposes. Address is is there but I blocked out. Jason

Exactly!
The fluff from the breeder's friend doesn't address the issue at all. It appears to be an attempt at "The Art Of Deflection."

Zook4mud (Jason and Meagan), considering all you have gone through, I think you are being much too generous in offering to settle for only the cost of the pup. You are undoubtedly out a lot more money in vet charges, and for the autopsy, and should be reimbursed for those too. Whatever you do, please don't settle for a "replacement pup", get the money you are due and find a reputable breeder.

However, please know that you are doing a wonderful public service by sharing your experience with this breeder/broker, and putting information out there that will be helpful to prospective buyers that may also be looking at her pups.

Jason,

I have only gotten to the second page of this thread, so please forgive me if this is a duplicate response, or if the situation has been resolved.

First, I would like to say how truly sorry I am for you loss and the additional pain you are experiencing due to a difficult resolution.

I noticed that you wrote that the breeder changed her contract 48 hours after your conversation. However this is clearly posted on their website:

"If one is found, the buyer will be informed. If the puppy should die before it is a year old, it will be replaced if an autopsy is performed and the cause was congenital, such as heart, liver, or kidney failure; a veterinarian report must be supplied. If an autopsy is not performed, this guarantee is void and the puppy will not be replaced. If a puppy must be replaced, it will be replaced with the next available, same-sex puppy of the same quality and the shipping expense and new health certificate will be paid by the buyer."

Well, it seems that you have complied with the contractual obligations by getting the necessary autopsy as means of proof of a congenital issue. So therefore, there is no question you deserve compensation by the breeder.

My feeling is if you haven't been recompensed, you clearly have a small claims case. However, since the breeder is located in Wisconsin, you may have to file the case in that State.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that your hearts heal and you are made whole again very soon.

Thank you for coming here and being willing to share your side of the story. I hope that things btwn you and the buyer can be resolved amicably.

Thank you for addressing this and sharing your side of the story. The dropping the puppy is disturbing.

This is very troubling:
I have read the 28 page packet that Zook4mud sent to me, letters, reports, and legalese included. Having remained in constant contact with the family over the first few weeks to aid in assisting with Cash’s transition into his new home, I was surprised to learn about pertinent information that had never been mentioned in our conversations. In two separate veterinary reports sent to me in the 28 page packet I learned that Cash had been dropped; once by a child and another time from a kitchen counter. In the more severe case the puppy’s neck was cocked for an extended period of time, and he had trouble moving. The veterinarian reported that the puppy suffered trauma and depression in the diagnoses from the falls.

Wow ..... what a thread.

Legally, I don't have a clue where this thing will go.

What is provable and what is being 'just said'?

The puppy being dropped.

Diane requesting the puppy back.

Answers to the above would have an impact, IMO.

Also, what is 'consistent with liver shunt'? It seems to be an indefinite statement when I would think a liver shunt would be visibly apparent at autopsy. Am I missing something?

This is what jumps out at me at first glance.

If you're in the business of breeding dogs and selling the dogs for a fee, then the buyer is not an "adopter" and is not "adopting" the dog. The buyer is buying the dog. That's why you have a contract with the buyer.


I think it does little to your side of the story to say things like the buyer "adopted" the puppy. It also doesn't do much for your side to say that you felt a licensed veterinarian may have hurt the puppy... Unless you're a vet, your opinion about their vet is really quite irrelevant. Why is it that breeders (i.e. people who SELL dogs and not adopt them) try to bully the buyers by making statements against their vets. It's getting old.


You aren't qualified to give the BUYER advice on NUTRITION for the puppy they BOUGHT from you. So what if they didn't "obey" your rules? Was it a contract term that they agreed to?


Sorry, but I too would have continued to seek help for my puppy with specialists over sending it back to you especially while it was sick. Who would ship a sick puppy back in that situation? Certainly no caring owner of the kind you say you seek out when "adopting" out your puppies.


Anyway, none of the above really matters -- your contract apparently guaranteed against genetic defects. There's a necropsy report that the dog died of a PSS. No self-respecting yorkie breeder on the planet would try to argue that a PSS is not a genetic issue or that there was any fault on the part of the owner. It's your job to breed a healthy puppy and to sell a product free from defects to your buyers. It's your responsibility to stand behind your contractual guarantees and to avoid blaming the victim.


As you have said you are ready to resolve the issue w/ your buyer, then you should do so. I think you should spend a little time offering your condolences and provide them with some emotional support that you failed to give when they first reached out to you. I also hope you s/n the breeding pair and take a long look at your breeding practices so as to avoid the suffering of buyers and puppies in the future.


Good luck to all.