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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   read and decide for yourselves (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/280169-read-decide-yourselves.html)

ladyjane 12-04-2014 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510111)
I am sorry that I almost made you lose your coffee.

What I am trying to say is that there are still good people out there who are willing to offer up their time to positively benefit others. It is a small family business built on passion and not profit and our numbers indicate that. Again, you assume that the prices that you have found are the final numbers that buyers are charged. As I mentioned before, Diane accommodates steep discounts for most of her customers.

Please, don't jump to conclusions before making accusations.
LOL that website does not tell me it is a "small family business" . The prices? LOL let's just say that they are doing something VERY wrong if they cannot make a profit charging that much.

I was not born yesterday.

ladyjane 12-04-2014 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510146)
Hi Lovetodream88,

I apologize that our website does not convey that Firebrand is what you consider to be a reputable breeder. I would love feedback on what improvements you suggest as we are always open to new ideas for the business.

If you take a moment to consider the reality of a serious health diagnosis you should realize that life as we know it cannot simply stop. Diane faces incredible challenges ahead of her physically and financially. Since the recent diagnosis she has scaled down production although, believe it or not, there is still demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with.
Tell that to all the yorkies that are being euthanized daily in shelters.

She is not needed to keep up with the demand. She is breeding to make money. IMHO she is selling and for ridiculous prices because there is a demand for "tiny yorkies" which the breeders who sell them know full well is not really great breeding. I don't know that I even saw a yorkie over 5 pounds on her site....all about tinies. Don't EVEN get me started on that topic.

I believe that the OPs puppy was a result of such breeding. (note I said that as my opinion)

ladyjane 12-04-2014 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp4m2 (Post 4510201)
To the OP i'm so sorry for the loss of your pup. I know how devastating this is. It's terrible have to deal with a breeder who refuses to honer her contract when you're trying to grieve for your loss.

jenskwan, this quote from your last post.... Since the recent diagnosis she has scaled down production although, believe it or not, there is still demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with.

....is so disturbing, I cringed reading this.To say a person has to keep up her production of pups up even in the midst of a serious health crisis makes me wonder where her interest really is. I really feel sorry for those dogs in her care when I read this.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Definitely very concerning...

jenskwan 12-04-2014 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KazzyK810 (Post 4510217)
"our website", "we are always open to new ideas for the business", "our numbers indicate that". ...are you just a friend or part owner in the business? Or the breeder herself under a false name? Seems like a slip of the tongue a few too many times in my opinion.

As to there still being a " demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with", this implies that Diane is still breeding. ??? Any reputable breeder of yorkies, knows that small dogs are more likely to run into complications giving birth that may necessitate an emergency C-section and as such have funds set aside specifically for such complications that may arise when whelping. If Diane does not have the funds to reimburse the clients whose puppy died from a congenital defect, one would assume she also doesn't have the funds to protect the life and welfare of her breeding bitches either, yet she continues to breed. Again, major red flag that this is not the kind of breeder that a potential yorkie purchaser should do business with!
I swear on whatever you people would like me to swear on, that I am who I say I am. My name is Jennifer Kwan as I signed in my original post. I am in no way monetarily involved with Firebrand Yorkies. As I also said in my original post I volunteer for the business.

I think you are taking things too far by assuming that a single mistake reflects upon the history of the entire operation. As soon as this issue is resolved I am leaving these forums. It frightens me how quick you all are to damn another human being.

ladyjane 12-04-2014 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp4m2 (Post 4510216)
I'm sure she does, after all they don't want to stop production. (smh)
Pretty much sums it up.

Wylie's Mom 12-04-2014 08:08 AM
Animals are living, breathing, sensitive, sentient beings -- and for any breeder to purport they need to "keep up with production" really says it all in terms of what their true focus is, their lack of commitment toward quality, and their lack of concern for their "product". :(

We kill/euthanize 3-4 million animals every single year. There is no deficit in "product".

jenskwan 12-04-2014 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4510247)
Animals are living, breathing, sensitive, sentient beings -- and for any breeder to purport they need to "keep up with production" really says it all in terms of what their true focus is, their lack of commitment toward quality, and their lack of concern for their "product". :(

We kill/euthanize 3-4 million animals every single year. There is no deficit in "product".
I am sorry if I used the wrong wording when I said "keep up production" or "keep up with demand."

Here are the facts:
- In this calendar year we have reared a total of 22 puppies from eight litters from seven different females.
- We had agreements on eight of those puppies whose dams were owned by other parties and their pups were reared by them and the sales went to them.
- Technically, Firebrand has sold 14 puppies this year.

I will let the community respond to whether or not that is overproduction as I am not an expert in Yorkie breeding. I would like to be informed and not bashed please.

Wylie's Mom 12-04-2014 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510256)
I am sorry if I used the wrong wording when I said "keep up production" or "keep up with demand."

Here are the facts:
- In this calendar year we have reared a total of 22 puppies from eight litters from seven different females.
- We had agreements on eight of those puppies whose dams were owned by other parties and their pups were reared by them and the sales went to them.
- Technically, Firebrand has sold 14 puppies this year.

I will let the community respond to whether or not that is overproduction as I am not an expert in Yorkie breeding. I would like to be informed and not bashed please.
The breeders here can probably best describe what is considered a "manageable" amount of puppies annually....and/or what is manageable in terms of # of females and whatnot. Hopefully they will chime in with experience.

Whether or not it's overproduction is so tough to say bc, just for example -- we have some really horrendous BYB (backyard breeders) out there (and this isn't even counting the Puppy Mills) - and many of those said BYBers are considered unethical breeders - so then one could/would say that even producing 1 pup out of that program would be "over production", know what I mean?

Whereas some Show/Exhibitor breeders, who breed for the betterment of the breed (or, should be) may produce only 1 litter every year or 2. Some breed a few a year. It really just depends. But the point is that they breed very conspicuously, and breed for a targeted reason in most cases....they don't really breed for the purpose of providing pets only.

Lovetodream88 12-04-2014 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510111)
I am sorry that I almost made you lose your coffee.

What I am trying to say is that there are still good people out there who are willing to offer up their time to positively benefit others. It is a small family business built on passion and not profit and our numbers indicate that. Again, you assume that the prices that you have found are the final numbers that buyers are charged. As I mentioned before, Diane accommodates steep discounts for most of her customers.

Please, don't jump to conclusions before making accusations.
The way you say this makes me think you are the actual breeder.

Lovetodream88 12-04-2014 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510117)
I did not post to address the problem and I think I was quite clear with my intention. I posted to mediate the discussion which has turned into a breeder-bashing thread based on one side of the story. Like I have said I don't even know both sides of the story yet. All I can say is that I am deeply sorry for what happened to the OP.

Many of you out there are calling for action, ganging up against this breeder without doing full research on the situation. Taking words out of context, jumping to conclusions, and casting judgements is not how we deal with this type of situation for all parties involved.

We are civilized human beings, are we not?
The information that she is not a reputable breeder is available for everyone to see on her website.

Lovetodream88 12-04-2014 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510146)
Hi Lovetodream88,

I apologize that our website does not convey that Firebrand is what you consider to be a reputable breeder. I would love feedback on what improvements you suggest as we are always open to new ideas for the business.

If you take a moment to consider the reality of a serious health diagnosis you should realize that life as we know it cannot simply stop. Diane faces incredible challenges ahead of her physically and financially. Since the recent diagnosis she has scaled down production although, believe it or not, there is still demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with.
Reputable breeders do not breed for profit most do not break even therefor you just admitted she is still selling yorkies to make a profit which by looking at the website you could see that. The problems are not with her website they are with her breeding! If you are not healthy enough to use being sick as an excuse for not doing the things a reputable breeder does then the person should not be breeding.

Lovetodream88 12-04-2014 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp4m2 (Post 4510201)
To the OP i'm so sorry for the loss of your pup. I know how devastating this is. It's terrible have to deal with a breeder who refuses to honer her contract when you're trying to grieve for your loss.

jenskwan, this quote from your last post.... Since the recent diagnosis she has scaled down production although, believe it or not, there is still demand for Yorkies out there that Diane must keep up with.

....is so disturbing, I cringed reading this.To say a person has to keep up her production of pups up even in the midst of a serious health crisis makes me wonder where her interest really is. I really feel sorry for those dogs in her care when I read this.
:thumbup::thumbup: it's just sad

Lovetodream88 12-04-2014 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510256)
I am sorry if I used the wrong wording when I said "keep up production" or "keep up with demand."

Here are the facts:
- In this calendar year we have reared a total of 22 puppies from eight litters from seven different females.
- We had agreements on eight of those puppies whose dams were owned by other parties and their pups were reared by them and the sales went to them.
- Technically, Firebrand has sold 14 puppies this year.

I will let the community respond to whether or not that is overproduction as I am not an expert in Yorkie breeding. I would like to be informed and not bashed please.
You are just burying your breeder friend. Sounds like she's a broker too......

KazzyK810 12-04-2014 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenskwan (Post 4510235)

I think you are taking things too far by assuming that a single mistake reflects upon the history of the entire operation. As soon as this issue is resolved I am leaving these forums. It frightens me how quick you all are to damn another human being.
In numerous posts you come across as being of an exceptionally highly sensitive nature...perhaps online forums where people share their opinions, is not the place for you.

Additionally, you have made sweeping negative generalizations about our forum and its members. "you are all quick to damn another human being". I dont see a single post damning a human being. I see posts that could be damning of her business practices, which based on the situation she is currently involved in, is seriously lacking in my opinion.

Instead of critiquing our forum and members, take an honest look at your friend. The fact remains, that if she had dealt with this situation promptly and ethically, as a reputable breeder would, she would not be in this position. She is involved in this because of her lack of response, her lack of action. She has failed her clients.

kreuer 12-04-2014 11:40 AM
OP: Maybe I missed it, but how old where the 1st pup you bought from her and the pup that died when you got them?


Also, I live in Wisconsin and remember looking at the Firebrand Yorkies website when I was looking for a puppy. As soon as I saw that they breed a female of only 3 lb. 14 oz. I knew right away not to buy from them.


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