Nervous new Yorkie mom

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by TennesseeDeb

I received a lot of negative comments about me trying to cross the US/Canadian border with a 9 1/2 week Yorkie pup. I was told flat out by one poster "No, Not going to happen". Well, I contacted the CDC and within 2 days I had approval to bring her across the border into the US. We are now half way back to Tennessee and had no problem crossing the border. She's a good little traveler. She's eating well, drinking well, and playing like all puppies should. She got an excellent vet check. She's a beautiful little baby and well worth the drive. I met the breeder, met the Mom and daddy Yorkie and saw the pristine conditions in which she was being raised. The local breeders did not want me to see where their pups were being housed. Red flag as far as I'm concerned.
Those that offered positive suggestion, thank you so much

Congratulations! I am happy to hear all went smoothly. Wishing you many years of happiness and joy with your baby. Share photos when you have time.

[Einstein1]

All the breeders I've ever dealt with, usually BYB's, only had one or two intact females. I don't know of any commercial breeders in Oklahoma. Every advertisement I've ever answered for a puppy in OK has been a family raising a liter or two with only one intact Dam or two. I know there's big time puppy mills around, but I've never run into them while utilizing local advertisement and breeders. I'm not just talking about Yorkies, but all breeds I've dealt with.

[OneShinyface]

Congrats to you!! I'm so glad you were able to return without issue.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Einstein1

In Oklahoma you wont be able to get a Yorkie unless you are willing too take one between 6-8 weeks. Mostly 6. I'm just saying, not doing. I've taken two like that. So far no problems due to their age, except hey are bad about biting but they learn not to do that after awhile.

Then look slightly outside of the state. Have you checked the ytca.org? Most breeders if they skip one thing they will skip another. The main reason puppies are let go early is because of money. It's really sad.

[Einstein1]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Then look slightly outside of the state. Have you checked the ytca.org? Most breeders if they skip one thing they will skip another. The main reason puppies are let go early is because of money. It's really sad.

I'd rather deal locally, but I really wish breeders here would hang on to their puppies until twelve weeks. And yes I believe it is a money issue.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Einstein1

I'd rather deal locally, but I really wish breeders here would hang on to their puppies until twelve weeks. And yes I believe it is a money issue.

I meant like if you were a couple hours away from another state. I did see two OK breeders on the ytca.org site.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by gemy

I am very happy for you and wish you much joy in your new puppy!


On what basis did the CDC approve your pup to cross the border? Are you obligated to quarantine her for one month until you can get the Rabies shot?


I am just really interested in factual information and how easy it would be for an American Citizen to import a puppy from Canada.

I'm really curious about this too. I'm not ready for a puppy, but when I get another dog, I would love her to come from the Canadian breeder I got Katie from.

[gemy]

I emailed the CDC and told them that I had purchased a pup from a breeder and that it was only about 9 weeks old and asked what had to be done to have it approved to enter the US. They wanted to know where I purchased the pup, how old, why I purchased it, when was I going to travel with it, and would I be willing to quarantine the pup. I answered their questions and emphasized the fact that the pup was a personal pet to help ease the loss of a previous pet and that I felt it would be putting the pup's health in jeopardy if we had to travel in January as the only way I could get there was to drive and January weather is usually very snowy, icy, and cold. I agreed to quarantine at my home. They approved my request and emailed me a letter to give to the border patrol officer. The officer was very nice and didn't even have me fill out and sign the "agreement to quarantine" form that the letter indicated they would have me sign at the border. Kandie traveled very well...no car sickness, whimpering or restlessness. She was in a carrier next to me and she seemed to really enjoy the radio. I have a Jeep Patriot and had laid the seats down and covered them with plastic sheeting and pee pads so when we stopped she could walk around in the back and do her business without putting her feet on the ground. I tried to be responsible and am very concern about keeping her healthy. I wouldn't have driven over 1800 miles in 4 days RT and not care about this little baby

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I'm really curious about this too. I'm not ready for a puppy, but when I get another dog, I would love her to come from the Canadian breeder I got Katie from.

The issue for me personally is twofold, a) I want to do initial Rabies Vaccination as late as possible - and that means what your province/city/county in their infinite health wisdom dictates as law as one variable then b) What the latest research is telling us the best time to vaccinate against Rabies - look to the Rabies Challenge Fund for Information. Then for me and my personal life style - I need to vaccinate against Rabies most especially when we do our country vacations and hiking et al.


Secondly does CDC recognize Titers even the Export Titer which appears to be recognized in many European countries as proof of immunity against Rabies.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by gemy

I emailed the CDC and told them that I had purchased a pup from a breeder and that it was only about 9 weeks old and asked what had to be done to have it approved to enter the US. They wanted to know where I purchased the pup, how old, why I purchased it, when was I going to travel with it, and would I be willing to quarantine the pup. I answered their questions and emphasized the fact that the pup was a personal pet to help ease the loss of a previous pet and that I felt it would be putting the pup's health in jeopardy if we had to travel in January as the only way I could get there was to drive and January weather is usually very snowy, icy, and cold. I agreed to quarantine at my home. They approved my request and emailed me a letter to give to the border patrol officer. The officer was very nice and didn't even have me fill out and sign the "agreement to quarantine" form that the letter indicated they would have me sign at the border. Kandie traveled very well...no car sickness, whimpering or restlessness. She was in a carrier next to me and she seemed to really enjoy the radio. I have a Jeep Patriot and had laid the seats down and covered them with plastic sheeting and pee pads so when we stopped she could walk around in the back and do her business without putting her feet on the ground. I tried to be responsible and am very concern about keeping her healthy. I wouldn't have driven over 1800 miles in 4 days RT and not care about this little baby

Thank you for sharing this. My preference would be to do Rabies as late as possible, and the new import law really upset me. I saw many imported puppies at a shelter a few weeks ago, the largest no kill shelter in the world. I know I can get a dog when I'm ready from an American breeder, but I'd much prefer to support someone who has earned my deep respect and admiration.

I also wonder about a Rabies titer. Katie had a Rabies vaccine in May 2013, but I have been titering yearly for other vaccines. I hope they accept the titer for you.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lisaly

Thank you for sharing this. My preference would be to do Rabies as late as possible, and the new import law really upset me. I saw many imported puppies at a shelter a few weeks ago, the largest no kill shelter in the world. I know I can get a dog when I'm ready from an American breeder, but I'd much prefer to support someone who has earned my deep respect and admiration.

I also wonder about a Rabies titer. Katie had a Rabies vaccine in May 2013, but I have been titering yearly for other vaccines. I hope they accept the titer for you.

Lisa I am pretty sure our breeder would hold a pup for you until after six months old, as would many of our CYTC breeder members. I as you know crossed the border last week, and the security man, never asked for proof of Rabies, but that is a chance you don't want to take. Going back to Canada, the security agent only asked if we were bringing the same dogs back into the country. Interesting that question.


There also could be an outside possibility that one of Rigair Dogs that is in the States I know MyFairLady? has a Rigair Dog - female I think - she has posted on the Showing Forum, well you know this of course might be a viable solution for you to source your dog from Rigair lines without this very concerning Rabies for Puppies ruling that came down from the CDC.


You are in the uneviable position of wanting another dog from your breeder who happens to live in Canada, and have to weigh a too early Rabies vaccination and the attendant potential health risks from same, against the absolutely valid desire to have a 3month old puppy to love and cherish into your home.


Keep your options open, and get to know some USA breeders of Rigair lines.....

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by lisaly

Thank you for sharing this. My preference would be to do Rabies as late as possible, and the new import law really upset me. I saw many imported puppies at a shelter a few weeks ago, the largest no kill shelter in the world. I know I can get a dog when I'm ready from an American breeder, but I'd much prefer to support someone who has earned my deep respect and admiration.

I also wonder about a Rabies titer. Katie had a Rabies vaccine in May 2013, but I have been titering yearly for other vaccines. I hope they accept the titer for you.

I rabies titer is useless in the US in states with rabies laws because they won't accept the titer at all.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I rabies titer is useless in the US in states with rabies laws because they won't accept the titer at all.

I had Katie vaccinated, not even thinking of a rabies titer, although I had other titers done at the same time. After the fact, at the same visit, I was told that a Rabies titer could have been done, and the blood would need to be sent to California. I'm assuming it would be to Hemopet, Dr. Dodd's company. I was told some places would not accept it, such as some groomers, but I wasn't told it was not accepted by law. In the next year I will explore it further, especially since the a Rabies Challenge Fund has said the DOI is much greater than three years. Katie is not due for a Rabies vaccine until May 2016.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I had Katie vaccinated, not even thinking of a rabies titer, although I had other titers done at the same time. After the fact, at the same visit, I was told that a Rabies titer could have been done, and the blood would need to be sent to California. I'm assuming it would be to Hemopet, Dr. Dodd's company. I was told some places would not accept it, such as some groomers, but I wasn't told it was not accepted by law. In the next year I will explore it further, especially since the a Rabies Challenge Fund has said the DOI is much greater than three years. Katie is not due for a Rabies vaccine until May 2016.

I'm pretty sure the titer does not exempt you from the laws of the rabies vaccine for the state your in at least not yet. I keep hearing that titers are not as great as everyone thinks and can give a false sense of protection but who knows. I gave DAP every three years and now that she is 7 I'm not giving it anymore but not doing titers either. But will do rabies every three years like my state requires.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I'm pretty sure the titer does not exempt you from the laws of the rabies vaccine for the state your in at least not yet. I keep hearing that titers are not as great as everyone thinks and can give a false sense of protection but who knows. I gave DAP every three years and now that she is 7 I'm not giving it anymore but not doing titers either. But will do rabies every three years like my state requires.

I've also read things about tigers not being 100% reliable, but I trust the work being done by Dr. Schultz, Dr. odds, and the Rabies Challenge Fund.

Here is an article I found very interesting.
Vaccination and Changing Protocols – Part 2 | IVC Journal

Vaccination and Changing Protocols – Part 2
By: Ronald D. Schultz BS, MS, PhD, DACVM
From IVC Issue: V4I4

In Part 1 of this article (Summer 2014, IVC Journal), we covered the different types of vaccines, including core and non-core vaccines, along with the adverse effects associated with vaccination. In this issue, we’ll focus on titer testing as an alternative to annual boosters, as well as vaccine dosages, duration of immunity, and the latest research projects being done on vaccination.

REASONS FOR VACCINE TITER TESTING:

• To determine whether an individual animal has responded by producing antibody to a vaccine.

• To determine that an animal is protected (positive test result). A response to some antigens does not correlate with protection. For examples, the presence of antibody to Leptospira does not correlate with protection. The microscopic agglutination test (MAT) is used to diagnose disease.

• To identify a susceptible animal (negative test).

• To determine whether an individual vaccine is effectively immunizing animals.

• Available titers to determine immunity for dogs are distemper virus, parvovirus, and adenovirus 2 (hepatitis).

• Titers available for cats are panleukopenia virus (FPV), herpes virus (rhinotracheitis virus), and calicivirus serum titers. However, the only serum titer test that correlates with protection is FPV.

• Rabies virus for cats and dogs (RFFIT-rapid fl uorescent focus inhibition test: non-export). Note: RFFIT is the rabies titer standard established by the Centers for Disease Control within the US (0.1 IU/Ml) and the World Health Organization (0.5 IU/mL) for export to other rabies-free locations to be adequate to protect humans, not dogs, against rabies. There is no established standard for dogs or cats, which means that the human standards must be extrapolated when assessing.

• Protection for other species.

• Titer tests are accepted for humans for many different diseases, and titer results are also accepted in “rabies free” European countries and Hawaii for animals.

• An antibody titer to a complex vaccine indicates the animal has developed an immune response that includes both T cell and B cells. It also demonstrates that the animal is continuing to make antibody months/years after vaccination and therefore memory cells are present.

Several state diagnostic laboratories in the US perform canine and feline antibody testing. There are two commercial test kits available.

1. VacciCheck (Biogal Labs/Spectrum Labs, Phoenix US) tests for canine infectious hepatits (CAV), canine parvovirus (CPV-2), and canine distemper virus (CDV). A feline test for antibody to panleukopenia, herpes virus, and calici virus is also available. This practical test takes less than 30 minutes, uses whole blood or serum, and simultaneously tests for multiple viral antibodies. Excellent for use in shelters or clinics, giving same day results.

2. Titer Chek (Zoetis Diagnostics, Kalamazoo, MI) tests for CDV and CPV-2. This microplate format is best for use in laboratories.

INDIVIDUALIZING PROTOCOL FOR EACH PATIENT

This allows veterinarians to help clients make choices about vaccines for each pet.

• Understand that all pups/kittens must receive core vaccines.

• Understand duration of vaccinal immunity (“protection”).

• Decide which non-core vaccines are needed and the best time to administer.

• Accept potential for adverse events.

• Consider the threat of disease.

• Recognize adverse events rather than dismiss or deny them.

• Offer titers for core vaccines triennially (or more often if desired).

VACCINE DOSAGE

Many holistic veterinarians and a large number of clients question giving the same dose to toy and giant breeds. The immunogenic principle of MLV vaccines is not based on body mass, so the same dose is needed regardless of the dog’s size. The temporary discomfort in smaller animals may arise from the amount of diluent, so a smaller volume of the latter could be used to reconstitute the lyophilized vaccine. Currently, some smaller volume vaccines are available in 0.5 ml, that contain a full dose of vaccine.

DURATION OF PROTECTION AND TIMING OF “BOOSTERS”

Vaccination and even re-vaccination does not assure that an animal is protected. A small number of dogs/cats may have no antibodies even after being repeatedly vaccinated. These dogs/ cats are non-responders. I estimate approximately 1/1,000 dogs can’t respond to CPV-2 vaccine, and about 1/5,000 can’t respond to CDV vaccine. This is based on genetics, so it may be much higher in a specific litter or breed. When challenged (exposed to a disease), these animals are susceptible. Also, some dogs/cats are low responders, but are generally resistant to disease. When animals do produce antibody reactions after vaccines to distemper, parvo and panleukopenia, they can have lifelong, usually sterile immunity.

The presence of antibody, even at low levels, means the immune memory response will kick in, and within hours of exposure, the dog’s body will bring the infection under control. There will be infection, but it won’t cause disease. There’s a big difference between infection and disease. And in fact, re-infection without disease isn’t a bad thing because it leads to natural stimulation of the immune response.

With live viral vaccines, when a “booster” is given to an already immune animal (antibody positive), the virus is immediately neutralized. There is no “boosting” of the antibodies because the virus does not have a chance to infect. When no viral antibody is present, the vaccine will either stimulate both the cellular and humoral response to the virus, or in a nonresponder will have no effect. So, only antibody negative dogs need re-vaccinating. Other vaccine components, such as tissue culture media, can cause harm (hypersensitivity and other adverse reactions), so annual re-vaccination is not recommended when not needed!

TIMING OF VACCINATION

• Avoid 30 days before and during estrus; pregnancy; lactation.

• Avoid if autoimmune disease or seizure disorder are present. It is well documented that predisposed animals will probably experience adverse reactions to vaccines.

CURRENT RESEARCH PROJECTS

• New vaccines continue to be developed and old vaccines
are improved as needed.


• We recently performed studies to compare a live oral
bordetella vaccine to the already available live intranasal
and killed injectable bordetella vaccines. The oral live
vaccine provided good local and systemic protection as did
the intranasal live vaccine. The killed injectable is the most
easily administered product, but didn’t give as effective
upper respiratory tract immunity as the live vaccines. The
oral vaccine cannot be combined with the viral kennel
cough vaccines (CPI, CAV-2) like the intransal vaccine can,
because when given orally the viruses are killed and thus
can’t immunize.


• Duration of immunity studies continue, looking at dogs
that have been vaccinated five or more years ago with the
core as well as non-core vaccines.


• Does the recombinant canarypox distemper vaccine
provide the same long lasting immunity seen with the
traditional live canine distemper vaccines? The answer is
yes. The recombinant, like the traditional live CDV, gives
many years of immunity. This was the fi rst study in a target
species showing that duration of immunity was the same
for a modifi ed live and recombinant vaccine.


• We are also studying “immunologic memory” to most of
the other canine vaccines, and have shown that canine
adenovirus and canine parvovirus vaccine provide many
years (up to a lifetime) of immunity based on antibody and
challenge studies.


• In general, immunity to viruses is longer than immunity to
bacteria, so the viral vaccines are longer lasting – up to a
lifetime.P