Tail Docking - Yes or No

[Yorkiemom1]

A docked tail does NO damage to the dog. The argument can not be made that docking a Yorkie's tail makes it fall over for lack of balance, or docking the tail increases the chance of the dog getting liver disease, or cancer, or respiratory infections, or going blind, or deaf..... We all know it USED to be done because Yorkies were working dogs, and the tail was often used as a method of removing a dog from ground. We all know an argument was made about personal hygiene and dingle berries in all that hair. As time went on, and then Yorkies eventually made it into the show ring, and a breed standard was developed, docked tails which had been part of the Yorkie for decades, continued..... This practice has continued over the years, and the standard continues to call for it.

Now, over the years, there are people that do not like the idea of docking tails, equating it as "unnecessary, therefore cruel". I personally do not equate the two terms "unnecessary" with the term "cruel". If one were to do that, it can be argued tatooing is totally unnecessary, therefor cruel? Piercing ears, noses, lips, tongues, nips, labia, navels, cheeks, eyebrows, etc., is also totally unnecessary, therefore cruel? I personally do not like or agree with ANY of the above mentioned practices, and there are many of us that are not at all impressed with such body mutilations, but thank GOD, at this minute, there is no LAW BANNING any of you that DO like or agree with these body desecrations. Someone mentioned female circumcision....what about male circumcisions? Should that be banned too, just because some people dont like it? Should it be acceptable practice for me and my coharts to demand the rest of you can no longer get tatted, or pierced up, just because we believe it is "unnecessary and therefore cruel...especially for those little babies of certain cultures that have their enfant daughters ears pierced? No real medical reasons to do it, no real medical reasons NOT to do it....I just dont like it and think all that nonsense should be banned, simply because it is in MY opinion, "unnecessary and therefore cruel"! Says who????? Just because some think it is "cruel"? Just because some think it is "unnecessary"? Just because some think it may be ugly?

Show me that docking tails causes some physical health condition to develop or worsen, some disease to surface or get worse, then I will make this an issue to be concerned about. All my dogs have docked tails and they communicate just fine with me and each other, as well as visiting with neighbors dogs through the fence. They have no physical limitations, they tear around the house and the property with abandon, and they are completely unaffected by their tails being docked. They swim, fetch, sit, run, bark, smile, roll around in the grass, all with no hindrance.

I would hope that before the thought comes to "the powers that be" to ban tail docking in this country, they would ban things that actually have adverse effects on dogs and their health...like breeding dogs that have not been certified against genetic disorders, or breeding dogs that do not get prenatal/postnatal care, selling pets without a spay/neuter contract, etc. These are just a few things that can have a direct adverse result in our Yorkies, and not just something people have decided they personally dont like.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

A docked tail does NO damage to the dog. Unless you consider pain "damage". The argument can not be made that docking a Yorkie's tail makes it fall over for lack of balance, or docking the tail increases the chance of the dog getting liver disease, or cancer, or respiratory infections, or going blind, or deaf..... We all know it USED to be done because Yorkies were working dogs, and the tail was often used as a method of removing a dog from ground. We all know an argument was made about personal hygiene and dingle berries in all that hair. As time went on, and then Yorkies eventually made it into the show ring, and a breed standard was developed, docked tails which had been part of the Yorkie for decades, continued..... This practice has continued over the years, and the standard continues to call for it Not according to the website link via PetMD posted above.

Now, over the years, there are people that do not like the idea of docking tails, equating it as "unnecessary, therefore cruel". I personally do not equate the two terms "unnecessary" with the term "cruel". If one were to do that, it can be argued tatooing is totally unnecessary, therefor cruel? Piercing ears, noses, lips, tongues, nips, labia, navels, cheeks, eyebrows, etc., is also totally unnecessary, therefore cruel? Not really the same at all. Adults make informed decisions regarding these practices. Dogs aren't asked what they'd prefer. It would be "cruel" to tattoo a newborn baby on the basis that it hasn't "developed" and "won't remember" and these practices are "harmless". Yet, I think we'd all agree that a baby should not be subjected to these practices due to the aforementioned reasons. I personally do not like or agree with ANY of the above mentioned practices, and there are many of us that are not at all impressed with such body mutilations, but thank GOD, at this minute, there is no LAW BANNING any of you that DO like or agree with these body desecrations. Someone mentioned female circumcision....what about male circumcisions? Should that be banned too, just because some people dont like it? Yes, males should have the right to make decisions about their bodies and not have this imposed on them in the name of their parents beliefs. Should it be acceptable practice for me and my coharts to demand the rest of you can no longer get tatted, or pierced up, just because we believe it is "unnecessary and therefore cruel...especially for those little babies of certain cultures that have their enfant daughters ears pierced? No real medical reasons to do it, no real medical reasons NOT to do it....I just dont like it and think all that nonsense should be banned, simply because it is in MY opinion, "unnecessary and therefore cruel"! Says who????? Just because some think it is "cruel"? Just because some think it is "unnecessary"? Just because some think it may be ugly? Again, adults who make decisions about their bodies is a completely different issue than making decisions on BEHALF of infants or puppies who have no voice and, therefore, no choice.

Show me that docking tails causes some physical health condition to develop or worsen, some disease to surface or get worse, then I will make this an issue to be concerned about. All my dogs have docked tails and they communicate just fine with me and each other, as well as visiting with neighbors dogs through the fence. They have no physical limitations, they tear around the house and the property with abandon, and they are completely unaffected by their tails being docked. They swim, fetch, sit, run, bark, smile, roll around in the grass, all with no hindrance.

I would hope that before the thought comes to "the powers that be" to ban tail docking in this country, they would ban things that actually have adverse effects on dogs and their health...like breeding dogs that have not been certified against genetic disorders, or breeding dogs that do not get prenatal/postnatal care, selling pets without a spay/neuter contract, etc. Agreed, more or indeed ANY regulation which restricts unethical breeding and/or cruelty should be encouraged by all of us. These are just a few things that can have a direct adverse result in our Yorkies, and not just something people have decided they personally dont like.

Thank you so much for taking the time for responding with your opinion. I have noted my difference in opinion above in red.


The purpose of this thread was to educate me and I have yet to see an opinion which I feel has educated me to any "benefits" of tail docking.


However, what I do see is that it is a practice which will be very difficult to obliterate due to the sentimental value which has been attached to it...


Thank you all for responding. It really is great that we can intellectually debate and come out the better for it!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Britster

What I don't get about this mindset is... if tails were such a HUGE problem in general, why don't we cut ALL dogs tails off? It just doesn't make sense. Golden Retrievers have long fluffy tails that often get poop/debris/etc stuck in them, so let's just start cutting off their tails...

Legs and toes can be broken off too. But you don't see people cutting a dogs leg off because he keeps hurting it.

Ever felt a Golden/Lab's tail? It's huge, thick, muscular with limited hair-length growth length unlike the Yorkie's thin little tail whose hair keeps growing as human hair does. Yorkie's in long coats often have tail hair that hangs down near to to the floor, Golden's don't.

Wonder how many tail injuries go unreported, untreated in this world? We can't even get YT owners to take their syncopal or dogs having bloody diarrhea to the vet always - so I imagine a bent tail, some bleeding from it wouldn't worry some owners all that much until the wound became septic and the dog goes down as they don't limp with it. That's what totally hits some of us in the gut - a long, frail tail cut/broken/bitten and getting infected and the dog just left to fend for itself - or even with good care, he's hurting when he could have been spared with 60 second procedure when he was too young to feel real pain.

Tails on dogs are appendages that aren't necessary for most toy, domesticated dogs, can give them real, prolonged grief when injured or matter-filled/unattended and don't inhibit free ambulation or the enjoyment of life whereas amputating the legs or toes would significantly alter the gait.

Most pups I've seen docked cry just as loudly, pitifully and for almost the entire time when they are merely picked up and held up in one hand as they do during the actual procedures.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thank you so much for taking the time for responding with your opinion. I have noted my difference in opinion above in red.


The purpose of this thread was to educate me and I have yet to see an opinion which I feel has educated me to any "benefits" of tail docking.


However, what I do see is that it is a practice which will be very difficult to obliterate due to the sentimental value which has been attached to it...


Thank you all for responding. It really is great that we can intellectually debate and come out the better for it!

No benefits, no detriments! Matter of personal preference based on personal opinion.

[Oddsock]

I never understood if tail docking is for working dogs, then why aren't Labradors tails docked. They go into the undergrowth. They often injure their tails.

Personally I hate tail docking and the injure reason to me is silly. They injure their legs also. Why put a dog through all that before it's needed. Also the ear docking, that's all about humans and their whims and fashions.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Oddsock

I never understood if tail docking is for working dogs, then why aren't Labradors tails docked. They go into the undergrowth. They often injure their tails.

Personally I hate tail docking and the injure reason to me is silly. They injure their legs also. Why put a dog through all that before it's needed. Also the ear docking, that's all about humans and their whims and fashions.

Labs, Goldens have thick, strong, muscular tails with coarse hair on them that isn't easily caught or matted. They don't go inside walls, though holes in fences, under snaggly fences or structure foundations, through/under stored wire, farm and lawn furniture and equipment, after rodents or toys as Yorkies did/do. And docking a tail isn't even truly painful to a still-developing 3-day old blind/deaf neonate compared to all the things that can happen to the adult tail during a dog's lifetime.

I spayed my female dog to prevent the pain of whelping, risk of uterine infection and cancer and she hurt a lot after that preventative surgery requiring anesthesia. But her chances of any of those happening to her were small. We do what we can to prevent problems.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by Oddsock

I never understood if tail docking is for working dogs, then why aren't Labradors tails docked. They go into the undergrowth. They often injure their tails.

Personally I hate tail docking and the injure reason to me is silly. They injure their legs also. Why put a dog through all that before it's needed. Also the ear docking, that's all about humans and their whims and fashions.

Labradors are retrievers and were bred for water. The tail is used for its purpose of hunting and swimming and allows the Lab/Golden etc., to be agile in the water providing balance and steering. I know lots of people take their Yorkies swimming, but it's not the same thing. And both Australian Shepherds and Border Collies are working dogs, but one has a docked tail. I wonder if it isn't a cosmetic difference to set the two apart since they are strikingly similar.

For Yorkies, at least in today's time, tail docking is purely cosmetic. And those with an opinion one way or the other isn't going to change. IMHO.

[LILBIT1]

If we had had an option to choose we would have left Waffles tail.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thank you so much for taking the time for responding with your opinion. I have noted my difference in opinion above in red.


The purpose of this thread was to educate me and I have yet to see an opinion which I feel has educated me to any "benefits" of tail docking.


However, what I do see is that it is a practice which will be very difficult to obliterate due to the sentimental value which has been attached to it...


Thank you all for responding. It really is great that we can intellectually debate and come out the better for it!

thank you thank you thank you!!!!

[Oddsock]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

Labradors are retrievers and were bred for water. The tail is used for its purpose of hunting and swimming and allows the Lab/Golden etc., to be agile in the water providing balance and steering. I know lots of people take their Yorkies swimming, but it's not the same thing. And both Australian Shepherds and Border Collies are working dogs, but one has a docked tail. I wonder if it isn't a cosmetic difference to set the two apart since they are strikingly similar.

For Yorkies, at least in today's time, tail docking is purely cosmetic. And those with an opinion one way or the other isn't going to change. IMHO.

Tail docking is illegal here, I wonder what statistics would be of injuries to Yorkies that do ratting and ferreting, from before the ban and after.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Statistics only work when every case is reported to a vet who in turns tracks it and partakes in a study. Wonder how many injured tails don't get reported or even treated?

[Graneet]

I think its WRONG. Mine has been and dont like it but was told the c?? What ever required it to redgister. They need to let a dog be a dog and win on those merrits. I think its crewl. And if i were to raise yorkies i would just not register them if i had to do it. Dont think my breeder liked it either cause they refused a tiny pup they kept.

[chachi]

I wouldnt mind if the tails were left undocked but as long as the standard calls for them docked I will buy a dog that meets the standard

[gemy]

I go back n forth with tail docking. Sir Teddykins you seem quite adept at doing searches on here, we have had numerous threads on the subject one such thread, actually posted research/learned opinions, my old memory is pulling up Nancy1999 as one such poster who linked research. Perhaps you might be successful in searching for the links.


Dr Chris Zinc through slo mo videos of agility dogs, you can actually see how the dog uses the tail as a counterbalance, and then not to mention the dew claws to in particular add stability on the quick turns at the end of the apparatus.


Right now, imo tail docking done by a vet or a very very experienced breeder provides no long lasting injury to the small 3 day old puppy. My docked dog,, communicates very well with his docked tail.


We don't do agility with him anymore due to his back injury.


In terms of the hunting breeds - I will point out Labs are smooth and a short coated dog and their long tail would not catch many burrs or brambles in the field, plus in search and rescue that tail is used by the victim to hold onto. I know this because I was training Magic in water rescue, and I had to devise for his docked tail and alternative method.


If you have ever watched working trials, the working Goldens do not have the long fluffy hair on their tail and or their legs. It is either trimmed off and or bred out by the working dog breeders.


Goldens and Labs have very sturdy tails and unless an unfortunate accident like getting a tail caught in a door, usually do not break their tail.


In the protection breed that I own, a long tail is actually a disadvantage to the guard and protect dog. It can easily be used by the attacker against the dog. Now having said this, there are some breeds that do have a long tail. The first that comes to mind is the GSD.


I will point out that breeds that have traditionally been docked for years and years of breeding, the long tails that we are seeing now have an interesting array of presentation. After all we don't have a standard for the tail for docked breeds. It has been prox 10 yrs since Europe went the way of banning docking and we are finally just beginning to see some uniformity on tails.


At this point in time I have not seen persuasive evidence that cropping tails when done correctly has any negative long lasting health concerns.


I also agree with Jeanie that it is much easier to care for and to provide a good sanitary trim for most pet owners on a docked tail dog.


For the breed that I breed, I will need to make a decision on docking or not the tail, I likely will not dock, as then any if I am lucky enough to have a show prospect dog, will be able to compete internationally.


There are an array of much more invasive and potential riskier procedures to the health of a dog then docking.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by gemy

I go back n forth with tail docking. Sir Teddykins you seem quite adept at doing searches on here, we have had numerous threads on the subject one such thread, actually posted research/learned opinions, my old memory is pulling up Nancy1999 as one such poster who linked research. Perhaps you might be successful in searching for the links.


Dr Chris Zinc through slo mo videos of agility dogs, you can actually see how the dog uses the tail as a counterbalance, and then not to mention the dew claws to in particular add stability on the quick turns at the end of the apparatus.


Right now, imo tail docking done by a vet or a very very experienced breeder provides no long lasting injury to the small 3 day old puppy. My docked dog,, communicates very well with his docked tail.


We don't do agility with him anymore due to his back injury.


In terms of the hunting breeds - I will point out Labs are smooth and a short coated dog and their long tail would not catch many burrs or brambles in the field, plus in search and rescue that tail is used by the victim to hold onto. I know this because I was training Magic in water rescue, and I had to devise for his docked tail and alternative method.


If you have ever watched working trials, the working Goldens do not have the long fluffy hair on their tail and or their legs. It is either trimmed off and or bred out by the working dog breeders.


Goldens and Labs have very sturdy tails and unless an unfortunate accident like getting a tail caught in a door, usually do not break their tail.


In the protection breed that I own, a long tail is actually a disadvantage to the guard and protect dog. It can easily be used by the attacker against the dog. Now having said this, there are some breeds that do have a long tail. The first that comes to mind is the GSD.


I will point out that breeds that have traditionally been docked for years and years of breeding, the long tails that we are seeing now have an interesting array of presentation. After all we don't have a standard for the tail for docked breeds. It has been prox 10 yrs since Europe went the way of banning docking and we are finally just beginning to see some uniformity on tails.


At this point in time I have not seen persuasive evidence that cropping tails when done correctly has any negative long lasting health concerns.


I also agree with Jeanie that it is much easier to care for and to provide a good sanitary trim for most pet owners on a docked tail dog.


For the breed that I breed, I will need to make a decision on docking or not the tail, I likely will not dock, as then any if I am lucky enough to have a show prospect dog, will be able to compete internationally.


There are an array of much more invasive and potential riskier procedures to the health of a dog then docking.

Thank you for your reply.


It appears the focus of the question has been lost as I was not seeking a comparison of "invasive/riskier" procedures compared to tail docking nor was I seeking affirmation of there being "no detriment"


As magicgenie above highlighted, the question focus is, "What are the benefits."


Again, I state that I have yet to be convinced that there are any benefits to the docking of the tail of the Yorkshire Terrier, specifically. This, combined with the other posts from owners who are adverse to this practice, gives me hope that this practice can't come to an end soon enough.


I am not here to pass judgment, only to learn, so again thank you all for your opinions and hope we have all learned something from this post and past posts which can be accessed via this sites useful search facility.