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-   -   What are your thoughts on natural rearing... (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/279363-what-your-thoughts-natural-rearing.html)

BobbiB 10-22-2014 10:25 AM
What are your thoughts on natural rearing...
 
Specifically the lack of vaccinating? Sheldon is due for some more puppy shots (I'm spacing them out at the very least because he is extremely low risk right now), and I'm unsure which ones I want to get. The last time he got what I believe is called an MLV of like five or six different vaccines (don't have the paper in front of me, unfortunately), and he was lethargic and lacked appetite for two-three days after. In my state, the only required vaccine is rabies, but I feel he should finish his parvo and distemper series.

Any advice? If you minimally vaccinate, or don't at all, can you tell me why, what you do feel is important, and what you would NOT give? I feel no different about him then I did my kids...I know he needs SOME protection, but I think vaccines are way overdone.

If you feel that they are all necessary on the schedule the vets given can you tell me why you believe so? Looking for both sides of the coin here.

I have to go get my boys from school so I can't respond immediately, but thanks in advance for any replies :)

MaWilliams3 10-22-2014 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499314)
Specifically the lack of vaccinating? Sheldon is due for some more puppy shots (I'm spacing them out at the very least because he is extremely low risk right now), and I'm unsure which ones I want to get. The last time he got what I believe is called an MLV of like five or six different vaccines (don't have the paper in front of me, unfortunately), and he was lethargic and lacked appetite for two-three days after. In my state, the only required vaccine is rabies, but I feel he should finish his parvo and distemper series.

Any advice? If you minimally vaccinate, or don't at all, can you tell me why, what you do feel is important, and what you would NOT give? I feel no different about him then I did my kids...I know he needs SOME protection, but I think vaccines are way overdone.

If you feel that they are all necessary on the schedule the vets given can you tell me why you believe so? Looking for both sides of the coin here.

I have to go get my boys from school so I can't respond immediately, but thanks in advance for any replies :)
I am a very firm believer in vaccinating your pet. when I took Bruiser for his shots he was just miserable and didn't want to eat for two or three days as well. But to me two or three days worth of discomfort and sleepiness, is better then exposing him to all of the animal diseases that are out there. Just my opinion.

BobbiB 10-22-2014 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaWilliams3 (Post 4499320)
I am a very firm believer in vaccinating your pet. when I took Bruiser for his shots he was just miserable and didn't want to eat for two or three days as well. But to me two or three days worth of discomfort and sleepiness, is better then exposing him to all of the animal diseases that are out there. Just my opinion.
I'm more worried about long term effects of over vaccinating and giving too much at once, too close together. I am really not comfortable with my pets or my children getting five or six at a time, that's just a crazy amount of toxins, and I'm not even a super green kind of girl. I mean, he's not even four pounds...pushing that many meds seems unnecessary.

ShowGirlLola 10-22-2014 12:21 PM
He needs to at least finish his puppy shots and boosters, space them out if you want, but get them.

After that you can just get rabies and do titers for the rest.

Lovetodream88 10-22-2014 12:36 PM
I think puppy shots and one year boosters are non negotiable after that is when you have the big decision to make. Except for the add on yearly ones like Lepto, Bordatella, and Lyme. I got DAP every three years until she has reached 7 and I have decided to no longer get that because I feel she is protected. Obviously you have to follow your laws on rabies. I also get Bordatella because she goes to get groomed and goes to lots of dog events and dog places and kennel cough can lead to some very serious problems. I also give Lepto because it is an issue in my area. Bordatella and Lepto are yearly. I used to give Lyme when I was in a high tick area but Callie only had one tick a year sense moving so we no longer do that one. DAP is good for 3 years at the minimum but I believe they are saying it only needs to be done every five years now. A lot of people will say to get titters done but all the research I have done on them say they are not reliable.

WannaBe 10-22-2014 03:56 PM
You can have your vet get a single distemper vaccine and a single parvo vaccine, space them apart a few weeks. I would not give a 5in1. How many shots has he had so far? How old is he? Look up Jean Dodd and her protocol, very interesting reading. Vaccinations are important, but getting the 5-1 can be dangerous. If your vet doesn't have the single vaccines, call around. If you don't find a vet with them, try ordering them from Revival Animal Supplies online. Giving a vaccine is pretty easy.

Maximo 10-22-2014 04:54 PM
Zero vaccinations is very risky. Parvo is a huge threat. Distemper used to kill a very large percentage of puppies. It is vaccinations that put an end to that. If we stop vaccinating, distemper will return. Rabies vaccinations are required by law.

I also believe in heartworm preventatives.

Some critics of "natural rearing" contend that this is a bogus name used by breeders to cut corners/costs for their litters.

Lovetodream88 10-22-2014 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 4499394)
Zero vaccinations is very risky. Parvo is a huge threat. Distemper used to kill a very large percentage of puppies. It is vaccinations that put an end to that. If we stop vaccinating, distemper will return. Rabies vaccinations are required by law.

I also believe in heartworm preventatives.

Some critics of "natural rearing" contend that this is a bogus name used by breeders to cut corners/costs for their litters.
Very true it's like human vaccines, we are now seeing more things we used not to because we had vaccines for it but people are not getting there kids vaccinated so it's becoming an issue again.

crazydoglade 10-22-2014 10:44 PM
I definitely believe in puppy vaccines. I've been through parvo with 2 litters and no dog should have to go through that. I do titers on my older dogs and have had no issues.
You also have to consider that when you don't vaccinate your dog's you are putting others such as younger puppies and dogs who may be vaccinated but haven't had time to fully develope their own antibodies and older possibly immune compromised dogs at risk. If your dog can potentially contract and pass on a disease, I believe that just like people who don't vaccinate their kids you have an obligation to keep your dog away from others. For your dog's sake and the protection of others.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBe (Post 4499386)
You can have your vet get a single distemper vaccine and a single parvo vaccine, space them apart a few weeks. I would not give a 5in1. How many shots has he had so far? How old is he? Look up Jean Dodd and her protocol, very interesting reading. Vaccinations are important, but getting the 5-1 can be dangerous. If your vet doesn't have the single vaccines, call around. If you don't find a vet with them, try ordering them from Revival Animal Supplies online. Giving a vaccine is pretty easy.
This is what I've been considering...parvo series, distemper series, and rabies.

He has only had the first series (which was the five in one) because I am spacing them, and because he doesn't go anywhere high risk at this point. The worst place he's been was the vets office he was vaccinated at.

BlueBelle 10-23-2014 03:43 AM
If your vet knows your dog didn't do real well after last shots they could give a steroid injection (I think it was) that seems to keep them from any poor reactions. I had to do that with mine and now no problems with any shots.

Wylie's Mom 10-23-2014 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499442)
This is what I've been considering...parvo series, distemper series, and rabies.

He has only had the first series (which was the five in one) because I am spacing them, and because he doesn't go anywhere high risk at this point. The worst place he's been was the vets office he was vaccinated at.
In bold...those are the Core vaccines - and those are the ones I get, and nothing more. I won't get kennel cough ever for my kiddos bc it makes no sense...it vaccinates for about 7 strains of KC, when there are virtually limitless strains of it...the analogy is it's like vaccinating us humans for the common cold - what's the point? It's the common cold for dogs.

I give heartworm year round. I don't do flea protection.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4499458)
In bold...those are the Core vaccines - and those are the ones I get, and nothing more. I won't get kennel cough ever for my kiddos bc it makes no sense...it vaccinates for about 7 strains of KC, when there are virtually limitless strains of it...the analogy is it's like vaccinating us humans for the common cold - what's the point? It's the common cold for dogs.

I give heartworm year round. I don't do flea protection.
My husband and I were just talking about the kennel cough vaccine last night and came to the same conclusion...lol. I do believe this is what I'm going to do. Parvo, distemper, and rabies. I will also keep him on heart worm preventative because we live in Florida, there are definitely one or two mosquitos.

Wylie's Mom 10-23-2014 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499466)
My husband and I were just talking about the kennel cough vaccine last night and came to the same conclusion...lol. I do believe this is what I'm going to do. Parvo, distemper, and rabies. I will also keep him on heart worm preventative because we live in Florida, there are definitely one or two mosquitos.
Yup...there is just no point in vaccinating for the "common cold" that constantly mutates, lol!

This is how I vaccinate my kiddos:

-- puppy vaccines
-- 1 year boosters
-- rabies every 3 years, by law
-- parvo/distemper at 4 yrs old again - I then consider them vaccinated for life as DOI studies indicate this and I trust those studies

WannaBe 10-23-2014 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBelle (Post 4499444)
If your vet knows your dog didn't do real well after last shots they could give a steroid injection (I think it was) that seems to keep them from any poor reactions. I had to do that with mine and now no problems with any shots.
Steroids should never be given with vaccinations. Steroids stop the immune system from reacting. When you give vaccinations they make the immune system think it is getting something and reacts and creates antibodies, thus making the dog somewhat sick. I know that the vets give this, but it doesn't help. You are better off giving one type of vaccination at a time to avoid the reactions of 5 to 7 vaccinations at a time. Imagine... giving the same 5 in one that a large great dane gets to a 2 or 3lbs pup?
They do make individual vaccinations for parvo and distemper, just find a vet that will give just those and don't give in to the vet that says it won't hurt them and here I'll give them steroids first....

WannaBe 10-23-2014 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499466)
My husband and I were just talking about the kennel cough vaccine last night and came to the same conclusion...lol. I do believe this is what I'm going to do. Parvo, distemper, and rabies. I will also keep him on heart worm preventative because we live in Florida, there are definitely one or two mosquitos.
That sounds like a perfect plan to me. You'll be pleased when he doesn't get any reactions and long term illnesses from overvaccination. I have Gunner on heartworm preventative also, we have lots of mosquitos here too. Just make sure you get him tested before you start the preventative.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 07:26 AM
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I think we've decided to go with individual vaccines, parvo, distemper, and rabies. He's been on heart worm prevention for a while, so we are good there. I appreciate your opinions.

Wylie's Mom 10-23-2014 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBe (Post 4499476)
Steroids should never be given with vaccinations. Steroids stop the immune system from reacting. When you give vaccinations they make the immune system think it is getting something and reacts and creates antibodies, thus making the dog somewhat sick. I know that the vets give this, but it doesn't help. You are better off giving one type of vaccination at a time to avoid the reactions of 5 to 7 vaccinations at a time. Imagine... giving the same 5 in one that a large great dane gets to a 2 or 3lbs pup?
They do make individual vaccinations for parvo and distemper, just find a vet that will give just those and don't give in to the vet that says it won't hurt them and here I'll give them steroids first....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBelle (Post 4499444)
If your vet knows your dog didn't do real well after last shots they could give a steroid injection (I think it was) that seems to keep them from any poor reactions. I had to do that with mine and now no problems with any shots.
Instead of steroids, give Benadryl about 45 mins-1 hr before the vax. In her 30 years as a vet, my vet has never ever seen a single vax reaction in a dog who was given Benadryl prior to the vax. She says it's a great thing to do if your kiddo has even a slight reaction to a vax.

Lovetodream88 10-23-2014 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4499458)
In bold...those are the Core vaccines - and those are the ones I get, and nothing more. I won't get kennel cough ever for my kiddos bc it makes no sense...it vaccinates for about 7 strains of KC, when there are virtually limitless strains of it...the analogy is it's like vaccinating us humans for the common cold - what's the point? It's the common cold for dogs.

I give heartworm year round. I don't do flea protection.
That's like saying not to get the flu shot because there are numerous strands. Why not protect at least for the strands you can? My cousins 80 pound mix was put in a kennel for a weekend and did not have bordatella and wham he got kennel cough and two days later was having to spend two nights at the vet hospital and they were not sure he was going to make it.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4499534)
That's like saying not to get the flu shot because there are numerous strands. Why not protect at least for the strands you can? My cousins 80 pound mix was put in a kennel for a weekend and did not have bordatella and wham he got kennel cough and two days later was having to spend two nights at the vet hospital and they were not sure he was going to make it.
Yeah, we don't get flu shots in my home either. I believe that those types of vaccines are best saved for high risk patients. I really don't feel any different regarding my dog.

Lovetodream88 10-23-2014 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499548)
Yeah, we don't get flu shots in my home either. I believe that those types of vaccines are best saved for high risk patients. I really don't feel any different regarding my dog.
Wait until you get the flu then you will want the flu shot every year. Groomers also require it.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4499586)
Wait until you get the flu then you will want the flu shot every year. Groomers also require it.
I'm in my thirties. I've had the flu before...lol. And I groom Sheldon myself :)

MaWilliams3 10-23-2014 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499591)
I'm in my thirties. I've had the flu before...lol. And I groom Sheldon myself :)
;) :D

Lovetodream88 10-23-2014 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499591)
I'm in my thirties. I've had the flu before...lol. And I groom Sheldon myself :)
A lot of people think they have the flu when they don't, it's a pretty terrible thing, there is no playing on computers enjoying time off and stuff, it is heck. I had it last year and will get my shot every year from now on.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4499602)
A lot of people think they have the flu when they don't, it's a pretty terrible thing, there is no playing on computers enjoying time off and stuff, it is heck. I had it last year and will get my shot every year from now on.
I've had the flu. I know what it is like. It sucks, but it rarely puts a healthy person at serious risk. I'd rather build up natural immunity because natural immunity is more effective anyhow. Now, if we were talking small pox, I would get a vaccine...but we are not. For me, my family, and my dog, I don't feel like the toxin trade off is worth it.

Lovetodream88 10-23-2014 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499604)
I've had the flu. I know what it is like. It sucks, but it rarely puts a healthy person at serious risk. I'd rather build up natural immunity because natural immunity is more effective anyhow. Now, if we were talking small pox, I would get a vaccine...but we are not. For me, my family, and my dog, I don't feel like the toxin trade off is worth it.
Even healthy people can end up with other infections from the flu. The coughing it self can last a month sometimes more in a healthy person. There is also all the people you end up spreading the flu too. After all me and my family went through but my grandfather who didn't because he got the flu shot and it made my mind up for me. Whether it's not a big deal to some or not why not protect against what you can to try and keep your dog from suffering from? A lot of times one round of antibiotics does not knock out kennel cough and to many antibiotics at least in people can cause weak bones, bad teeth, and becoming immune to them. Just something to think about.

BobbiB 10-23-2014 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4499626)
Even healthy people can end up with other infections from the flu. The coughing it self can last a month sometimes more in a healthy person. There is also all the people you end up spreading the flu too. After all me and my family went through but my grandfather who didn't because he got the flu shot and it made my mind up for me. Whether it's not a big deal to some or not why not protect against what you can to try and keep your dog from suffering from? A lot of times one round of antibiotics does not knock out kennel cough and to many antibiotics at least in people can cause weak bones, bad teeth, and becoming immune to them. Just something to think about.
I understand you are trying to be helpful, but it seems to be almost nagging at this point. I have worked in healthcare, I know what the flu is, I know how it works, and I still don't believe the vaccine is necessary or worth it to healthy, low-risk individuals. I feel the same way about certain canine vaccines. We over vax our pets and our children, IMO. That's not going to change. My dog is extremely low-risk when it comes to Bordatella, and I don't feel it is necessary for him to have it. Contrary to some people's beliefs, some think that vaccines in excess are more damaging than the protection they give, and it is okay for us to have that belief.

Lovetodream88 10-23-2014 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiB (Post 4499636)
I understand you are trying to be helpful, but it seems to be almost nagging at this point. I have worked in healthcare, I know what the flu is, I know how it works, and I still don't believe the vaccine is necessary or worth it to healthy, low-risk individuals. I feel the same way about certain canine vaccines. We over vax our pets and our children, IMO. That's not going to change. My dog is extremely low-risk when it comes to Bordatella, and I don't feel it is necessary for him to have it. Contrary to some people's beliefs, some think that vaccines in excess are more damaging than the protection they give, and it is okay for us to have that belief.
Well sorry you feel that way. I was just giving my opinion to make sure you looked at it all ways.

Britster 10-23-2014 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4499534)
That's like saying not to get the flu shot because there are numerous strands. Why not protect at least for the strands you can? My cousins 80 pound mix was put in a kennel for a weekend and did not have bordatella and wham he got kennel cough and two days later was having to spend two nights at the vet hospital and they were not sure he was going to make it.

Meh. Jackson has received 3 bordatella vaccines in his life. He's gotten kennel cough twice anyway. Not boarded or groomed at a professional place either. It's an annoyance, as the coughing kept me all night, but as long as you treat it quickly, it's not a big deal. Having to spend two nights in a hospital for kennel cough is pretty rare if treated properly or caught quickly enough.

But anyway, I feel puppy vaccines are NOT something to skimp out on. I will always do the 8 week, 12 week, 16 week schedule. Rabies by 4-6 months depending on area. Again booster at one year old. Then honestly, likely just rabies every 3 years per the law. Hopefully it changes to 5 sometime soon.


Jackson is 6 and hasn't been vaccinated (besides the bordatella - likely never again, and rabies every 3 years) since. I'm not terribly worried. Maybe one more time I'll do a Distemper/parvo but I don't really think it's going to make a huge difference honestly. I believe him to be protected due to research.

WannaBe 10-24-2014 08:40 AM
I have to add this. My brother in law runs the nursing dept. in a large hospital, his opinion is the same as these nurses who won't take the mandatory flu shots.
The flu vaccine is only 59 percent effective and carries with it serious health risks, which are not disclosed to those receiving it. As of November 2013, the Federal Adverse Events Reporting System has received 93,000 reports of reactions, hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following flu vaccinations. These include 1,080 deaths, 8,888 hospitalizations and 1,811 related disabilities. Nurses are more aware than the general public of this data, and many do not feel that the low effective rate of the vaccine warrants the health risk. This is so much more than the “pet peeve” described by the Massachusetts Hospital Association. (Source.) - See more at: Boston Nurses Speak Out Against Mandatory Flu Shots | Health Impact News


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