New Rules for Import of dogs to USA

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Now that I am awake this makes zero sense to me. Do you mean someone in the US exported dogs to the CA....or someone in CA exported dogs to the US? How could someone in the US import dogs to the US? You must have the wording wrong? Or I am just dense....

OK....now that I am awake AND have caffeine in my system, I understand what you are saying.

I just don't know where it is coming from? Do you have a link?

I honestly think that whether this affects breeders or rescues, it is a good thing for the dogs. That is not why the CDC has done it...but, I would think that anyone on either side of the debate about animal rights vs animal welfare would agree it is a good thing. I would never attempt to bring a dog to this country from another when I know how many are dying in shelters daily. BUT, in saying that I honestly DO think it is more breeders who would be affected....I mean, how many rescues deal with puppies? The only puppies I see are the homeless pregnant moms who end up in shelters....there are so many here and it is very depressing.

[ladyjane]

Went to Google and found this from 2007: 300,000 Imported Puppies Prompt Rabies Concerns - ABC News

I don't see rescue in this and I would be hard pressed to think that any rescue is importing puppies to the US. I realize there are bad in rescues and breeders, but honestly it is highly suspect to me and looks like people were selling. Of course we know that practice continues.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Now that I am awake this makes zero sense to me. Do you mean someone in the US exported dogs to the CA....or someone in CA exported dogs to the US? How could someone in the US import dogs to the US? You must have the wording wrong? Or I am just dense....

Its okay no problem - Supposed to be from the Dept of Agriculture There was an article in BestinShow Daily, that contained the number of 300,000 dogs that yes were imported to the USA whose destination was to shelters/rescues. This information is contained with in a thread in the Breeders section OP is swan- Animal Rights friend or foe. So I went back to link the link for you - and the link to the actual article is now Broken It truly was working on the day I posted my reply on that thread!!

I have recently queried the Dept of Agriculture and as of yet have been un-successful in finding these or any other numbers

These numbers everyone throws around drive me crazy. Sources are not linked ever. But there are put out there as fact. As if having a number in your memory and placing that on paper etc, makes it real, valid, legitimate, not to mention accurate. Balderdash I say.

[gemy]

Would you believe me if I told you the CDC has a survival plan for surviving a Zombie Attack

I didn't believe either.........................


Check it out - OMFL INsanity, and just jaw dropping incredulity

[gemy]

Here are just a few of my problems with the CDC's new ruling.

1. THe experts on immunology recommend at the earliest 20wks - later if you can get away with it. Ref Dr Jean Dodds vaccination protocols.

2. So the quandary here is do I vaccinate against rabies at 20wks = 5mths old - or because CDC allows me to import at 4mths old and I am already 2 whole months delayed in placing a dog that was purchased from me, by a resident of the USA - do I throw up my hands and say wtf do the Rabies? Just recall we had no warning about this - and as at present I have not seen what is the effective implementation date - I may have already entered into contractual obligations with a USA resident.

3. WHy not do what England does and require a Rabies Titer Test for dogs entering into England.

4. If there is a rampant Rabies epidemic - why do I not know about that? Shouldn't the public be advised of this?

5. Nobody including you, knows how many people it would affect, as nobody knows including Aphis, AWA, Animal Rights groups, Shelters et al, a) how many actual breeders of dogs there are in every foreign country and b) how many have actually entered into contractual obligations with USA citizens?.

6. And this is a trade barrier - the extent of this neither you nor I know - as we don't actually know the true demand for foreign borne dogs. Or a future estimated demand.

7. Rare Breeds of particularly large working/herding/hunting do need to source breeding dogs from many countries in order to keep the breeding pool healthy. This does place some serious short comings for breeders of these breeds. My breed ideally and seriously ideally should be placed in a loving home by 8 -10 wks old. This is for owner bonding and immediate training of a puppy that will at that age weigh anywhere from 20-35 lbs. By 4 months you are looking at 28-45 lbs. I think you see where I am going with this. Our breed is susceptible to immunodeficiency problems which is not enhanced by over /early vaccinations.

Just some of my thoughts on this subject.

[lynzy420]

This is rapidly turning into an anti government/political thread and I for one don't like politics on here. This is now being posted on FB as being another Obama scheme to take control of the world...blah, blah, blah....


At the end of the day, any puppy entering the USA will have been properly vaccinated and not under 12 weeks of age which has been a thorn in my side for too long. I always kept my puppies to 16 weeks, always, when they left me they were outdoor potty trained, sit, laydown, stop and leash walking. I don't see anything wrong with this law.


Rabies has always been an issue here, ANY case of rabies is one too many.


I do not think its a conspiracy against breeders rather the opposite, its for the good of the pups and the public. WIN WIN!!!!!!!

[Teegy]

It could be a means of stopping puppy mills and brokers from bringing in dogs from out of country. Pretty sure there are plenty of excellent breeders in the US so I doubt this would impact too many folks

[gemy]

I think folks should know about the changes in the law. For me it is not political, and I don't do facebook, although I am on it.

That is folks south and north of the border should know.

If you will note my illustrious CVMA only sent this new law to veterinarians who don't do a whole lot of exporting of puppies. There is no cc to the CKC who might just be able to deseminate this information to their breeder members.

Do I think it is a conspiracy against breeders? I don't have enough info to make a decision on that.

Do I think it will affect breeders yup.

And I am not aware of any definitive study applicable to all breeds of dogs, that an optimal age for placement of a pup is 8 10 12 or 14wks old or more.

But there are many studies on vaccinosis, on timing optimal timing of vaccines.

JDK maybe talking about health is now political?

[ladyjane]

I don't know why any breeder would send their pups to a country where euthanasia rates are so high. I certainly hope that they do the type of screening that we do....which would require a history of proven vetting of dogs and long term dog ownership. If not, I would say they are crazy to let their puppies go.

My question is about Canada....are there so many breeders there that you cannot find good homes and have to look to US buyers? Is there a large problem there as well? I don't know anything about dog ownership in Canada.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

Here are just a few of my problems with the CDC's new ruling.

1. THe experts on immunology recommend at the earliest 20wks - later if you can get away with it. Ref Dr Jean Dodds vaccination protocols.

2. So the quandary here is do I vaccinate against rabies at 20wks = 5mths old - or because CDC allows me to import at 4mths old and I am already 2 whole months delayed in placing a dog that was purchased from me, by a resident of the USA - do I throw up my hands and say wtf do the Rabies? Just recall we had no warning about this - and as at present I have not seen what is the effective implementation date - I may have already entered into contractual obligations with a USA resident.

3. WHy not do what England does and require a Rabies Titer Test for dogs entering into England.

4. If there is a rampant Rabies epidemic - why do I not know about that? Shouldn't the public be advised of this?

5. Nobody including you, knows how many people it would affect, as nobody knows including Aphis, AWA, Animal Rights groups, Shelters et al, a) how many actual breeders of dogs there are in every foreign country and b) how many have actually entered into contractual obligations with USA citizens?.

6. And this is a trade barrier - the extent of this neither you nor I know - as we don't actually know the true demand for foreign borne dogs. Or a future estimated demand.

7. Rare Breeds of particularly large working/herding/hunting do need to source breeding dogs from many countries in order to keep the breeding pool healthy. This does place some serious short comings for breeders of these breeds. My breed ideally and seriously ideally should be placed in a loving home by 8 -10 wks old. This is for owner bonding and immediate training of a puppy that will at that age weigh anywhere from 20-35 lbs. By 4 months you are looking at 28-45 lbs. I think you see where I am going with this. Our breed is susceptible to immunodeficiency problems which is not enhanced by over /early vaccinations.

Just some of my thoughts on this subject.

1. I don't use/follow Jean Dodds at all. I follow AAHA.
2. Do you sell that many dogs outside of Canada that is it going to affect you in a major way?
3. Because it is the United States and this is what the CDC said needs to be done. Why must we do what other countries do?
4. No one said rabies was an epidemic. What the CDC said is that exposure to rabid dogs is still the cause of over 90% of human exposures to rabies and of over 99% of human deaths worldwide. Speaks volumes to me. There was a man who died last year after contracting rabies from an organ transplant...and the donor had died from rabies as well. To my knowledge no one knows for sure how he contracted it.
5. I don't know how many breeders it will affect, but I have a feeling that some good will come of it because Heaven knows we don't really need more dogs in the US.
6. When you speak of trade barriers, I have to wonder about that. I would think that more important trade from Canada would have to do with gas, oil, car parts and other things, but I would not think dogs. Of course there are issues with some of those as well. I don't know a lot about that.
7. I have yet to see any studies that prove the immunology theory...everyone wants to blame vaccines for immune issues; but i won't buy that until it is proven. I really thought that most breeders when looking for dogs to breed, looked toward adults. Perhaps I am wrong...but if they are looking to breed, I hardly think waiting a bit longer is that major of an issue. It certainly should not be put before the public health concern of rabies imho.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

I think folks should know about the changes in the law. For me it is not political, and I don't do facebook, although I am on it.

That is folks south and north of the border should know.

If you will note my illustrious CVMA only sent this new law to veterinarians who don't do a whole lot of exporting of puppies. There is no cc to the CKC who might just be able to deseminate this information to their breeder members.

Do I think it is a conspiracy against breeders? I don't have enough info to make a decision on that.

Do I think it will affect breeders yup.

And I am not aware of any definitive study applicable to all breeds of dogs, that an optimal age for placement of a pup is 8 10 12 or 14wks old or more.

But there are many studies on vaccinosis, on timing optimal timing of vaccines.

JDK maybe talking about health is now political?

Anything that is done by our government becomes very political. Kind of ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

Maybe this thread has passed on to FB?? I don't know...if so, I am glad I missed it. I get tired of conspiracy theories.

[Maximo]

I see this as simply moving the United States closer to other countries' requirements. The US has been quite lax in requirements on imported animals before now. Maybe that is why we have a rabies problem and the UK does not?

Rabies susceptible animals Imports/exports ? animals and animal products

UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
concerning the movement of rabies susceptible animals
into Great Britain

(d) Cats, dogs and ferrets

Cats, dogs and ferrets may be imported without undergoing quarantine providing that they meet the following conditions:

1. they are from a holding or business registered with the EU Member State of origin;

2. be identified by a microchip prior to vaccination;

3.after the minimum age of vaccination in the country of origin, have been vaccinated against rabies;

4. after vaccination remain at the holding or business for a minimum of 21 days;

5. in the case of dogs (other than those from Ireland, Finland, Norway or Malta) be treated for echinococcus(tapeworm) not less than 24 hours and not more than 5 days prior to arrival in the UK;

6. be accompanied by a passport modelled on Annex 1 of Commission Decision 2003/803/EC containing the the rabies vaccination and Echinococcus treatment; and be accompanied by a certificate in accordance with Part 1 of Annex E of Directive 92/65/EEC (as amended) Commission Decision 2012/112/EU contains the health certificate currently required.

Paragraph 2 of Article 6 of Regulation (EC) 998/2003 states that, unless a Competent Authority grants a derogation in specific cases, animals under three months old of the species listed in Part A of Annex 1 may not be moved before they reach the required age for vaccination and, where provided for in the rules, they have undergone a test to determine antibody titration. The UK has no such derogation.

If these conditions can be met, no licence will be required under the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) Order 1974.If these conditions cannot be met the animals will require a licence and must be quarantined. Contact the Pets Travel Team for further information (see section 3).

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I see this as simply moving the United States closer to other countries' requirements. The US has been quite lax in requirements on imported animals before now. Maybe that is why we have a rabies problem and the UK does not?

Rabies susceptible animals Imports/exports ? animals and animal products

UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
concerning the movement of rabies susceptible animals
into Great Britain

You know, that slid right past me in this. I do know that a lot of countries have stringent quarantine periods. We have had people surrender their pups because of it, thinking the dog could not handle it. Very sad.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I don't know why any breeder would send their pups to a country where euthanasia rates are so high. I certainly hope that they do the type of screening that we do....which would require a history of proven vetting of dogs and long term dog ownership. If not, I would say they are crazy to let their puppies go.

My question is about Canada....are there so many breeders there that you cannot find good homes and have to look to US buyers? Is there a large problem there as well? I don't know anything about dog ownership in Canada.

To answer your question generally no. What I was talking about in main were Rare Breeds. ANd hey Rare means just that Rare. As breeders we source our breeding dogs from many countries, and place our puppies and breeding dogs all over the world, and yes in the USA. The breed I breed has maybe 24 breeders in all of Canada and maybe triple that in the USofA.

I have posted in the past - right now in the largest City in Canada, we have less than 50 dogs in shelters waiting for adoption. This is a city of approximately 4million folks. Of course the caveat is and is always is with dog statistics there is no confidence on accurate reporting, as there are no laws and no 0verseeing independent body that requires audited numbers.

And we Canada took in many many dogs from Hurricane Katrina, and of course the rate of heartworm went up, those poor dogs have been through so much. So yes Canada imported compassionately many dogs that were victims of Hurricane Katrina. My point is, if there are regions where south or north of the border one or the other have dogs that could fulfill a need and be placed, why shouldn't dogs cross the border for placement.

That might explain why a 300,000 number imported into the USA was reported by the Dept of Agriculture. Of course again the caveat is I have not been able (yet again!!!) to source this number from the Dept of Agriculture.

And now to answer your first question - do breeders do screening of course we do! And probably just like in the US of A the screening protocols will vary by state by agency, by individual breeder. I can tell you that the SPCA in Montreal had no flocking idea how to screen a good buyer for the breed I breed. They had probably never ever seen even one before they assumed responsibility for the largest seizure anywhere for our breed. And that number was 19 dogs!!!!!!!!

As you might know I am active in my own breed rescue. I screened quite deeply applicants. And we have some rigorous requirements. First and foremost is the commitment to continued obedience training for our dogs. And yes vet check references et al. They must demonstrate that they have a trainer in place and a willingness to do the training. Ideally they have owned and trained working dogs before. They commit to never sending their dog to a shelter, but back to us the rescue. They commit to heartworm preventatives, and appropriate and timely vet care. And we follow up....

And I will place my puppy in any qualified home. Why? Because I don't expect after my vetting of the application and my contract provides for provision that if anything goes wrong send the puppy/adult back to me!!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

To answer your question generally no. What I was talking about in main were Rare Breeds. ANd hey Rare means just that Rare. As breeders we source our breeding dogs from many countries, and place our puppies and breeding dogs all over the world, and yes in the USA. The breed I breed has maybe 24 breeders in all of Canada and maybe triple that in the USofA.

I have posted in the past - right now in the largest City in Canada, we have less than 50 dogs in shelters waiting for adoption. This is a city of approximately 4million folks. Of course the caveat is and is always is with dog statistics there is no confidence on accurate reporting, as there are no laws and no 0verseeing independent body that requires audited numbers.

And we Canada took in many many dogs from Hurricane Katrina, and of course the rate of heartworm went up, those poor dogs have been through so much. So yes Canada imported compassionately many dogs that were victims of Hurricane Katrina. My point is, if there are regions where south or north of the border one or the other have dogs that could fulfill a need and be placed, why shouldn't dogs cross the border for placement.

That might explain why a 300,000 number imported into the USA was reported by the Dept of Agriculture. Of course again the caveat is I have not been able (yet again!!!) to source this number from the Dept of Agriculture.

And now to answer your first question - do breeders do screening of course we do! And probably just like in the US of A the screening protocols will vary by state by agency, by individual breeder. I can tell you that the SPCA in Montreal had no flocking idea how to screen a good buyer for the breed I breed. They had probably never ever seen even one before they assumed responsibility for the largest seizure anywhere for our breed. And that number was 19 dogs!!!!!!!!

As you might know I am active in my own breed rescue. I screened quite deeply applicants. And we have some rigorous requirements. First and foremost is the commitment to continued obedience training for our dogs. And yes vet check references et al. They must demonstrate that they have a trainer in place and a willingness to do the training. Ideally they have owned and trained working dogs before. They commit to never sending their dog to a shelter, but back to us the rescue. They commit to heartworm preventatives, and appropriate and timely vet care. And we follow up....

And I will place my puppy in any qualified home. Why? Because I don't expect after my vetting of the application and my contract provides for provision that if anything goes wrong send the puppy/adult back to me!!

I want proof of heartworm prevention with past dogs (and other things of course, including dentals as needed and/or suggested by the vet). Following up is not going to solve anything...just try to get one back that the owner does not want to relinquish.

What I can tell you is that over the years I have seen so many breeders and rescues cut corners .. no vetting, nothing. I believe they are in the majority from what I have witnessed. So sad because those are the animals at high risk to end up in shelters and die without ever having a real chance at a good life.