Question about type and appearance - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Sandyld7 · 04-12-2014, 01:26 PM

Hello - this is my very first post and I don't even have a Yorkie yet!

I hope I am posting this in the right spot.

Here is my question: Is the "look" that includes a shorter nose and bigger eyes what fits the standard in Yorkies? And, at what point can you tell if a puppy will turn out like that? Just by looking at their parents? For example, I really like the picture on the AKC site of the Yorkie that looks like that. When I read the standard, I honestly can't tell for sure.

I am in the process of searching for a Yorkie - probably a show prospect. I have been talking to a few breeders, and I have not really gotten an answer to those questions. The responses have been rather vague. I have watched Yorkies show at dog shows, and see differences in their head a face, and just can't help but be drawn to a certain look.

I have been wanting a Yorkie for several years now, and have finally decided to let myself get one. I raise and show labradors, so my thinking was that if I was going to get a beautiful little Yorkie to love, I might as well get one I could take to shows. I have been very fortunate to great mentors in labs who are breeder judges and have produced top champions. Unfortunately, none of them know any good Yorkie breeders! So I am trying to be careful ,and just starting trying to figure out what all to look for.
Any feedback would be appreciated!

theporkieyorkie · 04-13-2014, 07:44 AM

It sounds like what you are looking for is what some people refer to the baby face yorkie...

Here is a thread on here about the baby doll faces...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...hats-mean.html

It generally means a shorter nose and wider set eyes. As you can see from the thread, it's sort of a hot word, like the word "teacup," but it's just a word used to describe the type of face.

I have one yorkie with more of a foxy face...I think of him as more of the older, traditional style yorkie, and I have one with more of a newer age baby face. He's also fined boned. IMO, he looks like a puppy that never grew up and I find his look absolutely adorable. His muzzle isn't short enough for his tongue to hang out and he's not super tiny either so he's not an extreme baby doll(as some of the breeders like to use as a catch phrase)...he's just got more of a square shorter muzzle and head with eyes that are more pronounced than my other pup.

I adopted both as adults so I have no idea what either looked like as puppies to know the difference..but I've often wondered if you can tell the difference between the two types of face as puppies as well.

Sandyld7 · 04-13-2014, 08:16 AM

Thank you, theporkieyorkie for your reply.

Not sure about what to call it, I just know I have seen the look on little faces at the dog show waiting to go into the ring, and could help but think "how adorable"!
I know I DO NOT want a teacup. I have done enough research so far to know they are not the standard and have a host of issues. Obviously, that would never fly for a show prospect.

I guess the Yorkies I have seen with longer noses (maybe what people are calling the terrier nose?) are not as cute. I have also seen some with small eyes, and I did not find that attractive, either.

Since I don't know anyone raising and showing Yorkies very well (beyond initial conversations) it is hard to know if I am asking the wrong question to the wrong person.
I know many breeds have disagreements on looks that are being produced and put up in the show ring. That is certainly the case with labs, which is why I wanted to ask about that.
I am trying to do lots of research on my "quest", as the puppy will be a lifetime commitment. There is so much to learn in trying to understand what to look for, obviously.
Your link to the previous discussion did help!

gracielove · 04-13-2014, 08:31 AM

Sadly, most internet searches and classified ads are put there by backyard breeders and puppy mills. If you are really interested in a Yorkie that is close to meeting the AKC standard for a Yorkie then visit a breeder that actually shows their dogs. Now, I am not saying that everyone who shows is necessarily reputable but you have a better chance of finding a good one if you go to your local AKC sanctioned dog club and ask for their breeder referral person.

The people who belong to these clubs are trying to meet the standard as closely as possible and many of them are very serious about preventing genetic defects and other weaknesses that can occur in purebreds.

Here is a link to the AKC club search page.
American Kennel Club - Club Search and Directory
Most clubs list the breeder referral person right there on your search results.

Do a search for a conformation club in your state or surrounding states. You can also check to see if the state has any Yorkshire Terrier clubs. The YTCA also has a website that will give you some good information about what to look for and of course if you read the "sticky" areas here at YT you will find helpful info.

Right now small dog breeding is at an all time high in this country. The increase, however, has not been in knowledgeable breeders that understand the genetic difficulties of breeding purebreds. The increase has been in home style breeders and puppy mills that will breed any apparently purebred dogs they get their hands on.

Purebreds are genetically manipulated dogs. It takes many generations of experimental breeding to create a purebred that will consistently reproduce uniformly. It takes only on or two generations of poor breeding practices to cause a purebred to deteriorate from the standard. That is why you see so many purebreds that have attributes that are not at all like the breed standard. You will see Yorkies with floppy ears and under or over sized. Large eyes and short noses are not in the breed standard. These may be very nice pets but those who breed a Yorkie to look like that are playing with fire. Genetic defects abound with that sort of breeding.

It is a good idea to go to some dog shows. They are fun for dog lovers and you can learn a lot. Go to at least two or three breeders and look at their dogs and observe how the dogs are kept. You will see a lot of variation but you should always see dogs that are happy and healthy as well as well cared for.

A bad breeder will have too many dogs and lots of cages.....OR.....they will not allow you to see hardly any of their dogs and will only bring out very few pups or maybe only one for you to see. That would be either a broker that works for a puppy mill or someone who does not want you to see the conditions their dogs live under. Never buy a pup or a dog from a breeder that wants to bring the animal to your home or meet you somewhere.

A good breeder will have lots of information about the ancestry of their dogs. They will have information about the genetic testing done on their breeding stock as well as plenty of show win pictures and trophies on display.

Learn all you can so when you go to meet a breeder you know what to ask for and also so you know what you are looking at.

Good luck on your search. Hopefully your new Yorkie will be with you for many, many years to come so take your time and get just the right one.

yorkiemini · 04-13-2014, 09:26 AM

When I was interested in my first Yorkie and wNted a show quality female, I would go to thr shows and when I saw the look I liked I would hover around Fter the show and talk with the handler or breeder. I learned so much and they were mostly generous with tier information. It wasn't long until i had found the breeder that I likes and she was gracious to mentor me. And, I got the Yorkie look that I wanted

Sandyld7 · 04-14-2014, 06:23 PM

Hello gracielove and thanks for your response. I have actually been doing searches for quite some time now, and have contacted breeders on the YTCA list for my state and have also been attempting to talk to some at shows.
As I explained above, I show Labs, so much of what you said is what I have also told many others looking for labs.
However, approaching a breeder and asking the right questions can be a daunting task, and I know this from when I started out "green" in Labs.
I posted here because I thought it might be interesting to get feedback that I have not gotten from the breeders I have talked to so far. I am trying to understand type as it relates to the Yorkie. I was sure if there was the same divide among Yorkie breeders on type as there is in Labs.
You mentioned that larger eyes and shorter noses are not in the breed standard, yet that is what I have seen at shows, and even the picture of the pup on the AKC site, here:
Yorkshire Terrier Page

I really lean towards that look, and thus the reason for my question.

I have read the standard on the AKC site, but that does not really give me the visual I was looking for. I tend to research things to the end degree (that is part of the fun) and was struggling to understand. I thought there might be some show breeders that might chime in on type.

Thanks again for your input!

theporkieyorkie · 04-15-2014, 07:29 AM

You might have better luck posting your question in the breeding section. I know that it's not a question directly related to breeding a dog, but I am sure the breeders would have an answer for you since they have puppies and see them grow up every day.

There's also a show section right underneath the breeding section. You could also post it there instead and you might get some better feed back there as well...

I've also posted a pic of an "extreme" baby doll face below. This is what a lot of people think of when they think of baby doll. Obviously, She is 2 lbs and the dogs muzzle is so short that her tongue hangs out and this would not fly in the show ring.

I think what you are looking for is the shorter muzzle baby doll look, but not to the extreme of what the dog in the picture is.

Below the extreme baby doll are 3 pics of my dogs. The first one is my dog who has more of a babydoll face and the second two pics are my dog with the foxy face. Neither are show quality but it will give you an idea of the different types of heads.

To make matters even more complicated, you've also got yorkies with very different bone structures. For example, my yorkie with the foxy face is stocky, with short legs and is low to the ground and he moves more like a pug or something with a heavier bone structure. My other yorkie with the baby face, is tall, with a fine bone structure, long legs and a beautiful gate. Most people prefer to show the taller, lankier yorkies because they move nicer.

In the end...it will always come down to judges preference and what they prefer.

mimimomo · 04-15-2014, 12:15 PM

I think a lot of the American Show Enthusiasts & people prefer the shorter snout, wide set big eyes look. In this article, an interview w/ Patrizia Casedei, on the 10th question, she explains the 'European' & 'American' look preferences/ types of the Yorkshire Terrier. It takes awhile to load...
The Global Yorkshire Terrier Magazine - March 2014

You might want to look into the Durrer line. Reputable respectable Show breeders will not use the words 'baby doll face'.

MyFairLacy · 04-15-2014, 01:47 PM

We have a great group that show Yorkies here in TX, and I think most of us would welcome another exhibitor since so many have stopped showing in the past few years.

The head is really open to interpretation and personal preference. The standard says muzzle not too long. It should have a 90 degree stop and not be dish faced or down faced. Length of muzzle can rang...shouldn't be overly long or overly short though. I prefer a slightly shorter, broader muzzle. Some prefer a more terrier head, some a "cuter" face. I guess I prefer cuter but not an overly smushed muzzle. That is not correct. So far as eyes, the eyes should be medium sized and almond shaped. You don't want big round eyes, even though some do have them. Some pet breeders are breeding an extreme head that has a very short muzzle and large round wideset eyes and this is not correct and a little creepy looking in my opinion. The key is MODERATE in yorkies.

Feel free to contact me privately if you'd like to chat...I could introduce you to some other yorkie exhibitors if you are interested.

Sandyld7 · 04-15-2014, 06:56 PM

theporkieyorkie - thanks for posting the pictures. The first pup is cute, but certainly looks a little odd next to the Yorkies I have seen at shows. I am NOT looking for a tiny one - hoping for around 5 pounds or so. Your comments on bone structure are intriguing - those are things I am trying to learn about Yorkies.

mimimomo - thanks for the article link! I am going to read this - love doing the research.

MyFairLacy - I would love to talk to you! I appreciate your description of the head, and have lots of other questions if you are willing to talk to me. I am sending you private message.

04-12-2014, 01:26 PM	#1
Sandyld7 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Franklin TX Posts: 4	Question about type and appearance Hello - this is my very first post and I don't even have a Yorkie yet! I hope I am posting this in the right spot. Here is my question: Is the "look" that includes a shorter nose and bigger eyes what fits the standard in Yorkies? And, at what point can you tell if a puppy will turn out like that? Just by looking at their parents? For example, I really like the picture on the AKC site of the Yorkie that looks like that. When I read the standard, I honestly can't tell for sure. I am in the process of searching for a Yorkie - probably a show prospect. I have been talking to a few breeders, and I have not really gotten an answer to those questions. The responses have been rather vague. I have watched Yorkies show at dog shows, and see differences in their head a face, and just can't help but be drawn to a certain look. I have been wanting a Yorkie for several years now, and have finally decided to let myself get one. I raise and show labradors, so my thinking was that if I was going to get a beautiful little Yorkie to love, I might as well get one I could take to shows. I have been very fortunate to great mentors in labs who are breeder judges and have produced top champions. Unfortunately, none of them know any good Yorkie breeders! So I am trying to be careful ,and just starting trying to figure out what all to look for. Any feedback would be appreciated!

04-13-2014, 09:26 AM	#5
yorkiemini Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA Posts: 4,285	When I was interested in my first Yorkie and wNted a show quality female, I would go to thr shows and when I saw the look I liked I would hover around Fter the show and talk with the handler or breeder. I learned so much and they were mostly generous with tier information. It wasn't long until i had found the breeder that I likes and she was gracious to mentor me. And, I got the Yorkie look that I wanted __________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car

04-15-2014, 07:29 AM	#7
theporkieyorkie YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: dearborn heights Posts: 1,148	You might have better luck posting your question in the breeding section. I know that it's not a question directly related to breeding a dog, but I am sure the breeders would have an answer for you since they have puppies and see them grow up every day. There's also a show section right underneath the breeding section. You could also post it there instead and you might get some better feed back there as well... I've also posted a pic of an "extreme" baby doll face below. This is what a lot of people think of when they think of baby doll. Obviously, She is 2 lbs and the dogs muzzle is so short that her tongue hangs out and this would not fly in the show ring. I think what you are looking for is the shorter muzzle baby doll look, but not to the extreme of what the dog in the picture is. Below the extreme baby doll are 3 pics of my dogs. The first one is my dog who has more of a babydoll face and the second two pics are my dog with the foxy face. Neither are show quality but it will give you an idea of the different types of heads. To make matters even more complicated, you've also got yorkies with very different bone structures. For example, my yorkie with the foxy face is stocky, with short legs and is low to the ground and he moves more like a pug or something with a heavier bone structure. My other yorkie with the baby face, is tall, with a fine bone structure, long legs and a beautiful gate. Most people prefer to show the taller, lankier yorkies because they move nicer. In the end...it will always come down to judges preference and what they prefer. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by theporkieyorkie; 04-15-2014 at 07:31 AM.

04-15-2014, 12:15 PM	#8
mimimomo Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,874	I think a lot of the American Show Enthusiasts & people prefer the shorter snout, wide set big eyes look. In this article, an interview w/ Patrizia Casedei, on the 10th question, she explains the 'European' & 'American' look preferences/ types of the Yorkshire Terrier. It takes awhile to load... The Global Yorkshire Terrier Magazine - March 2014 You might want to look into the Durrer line. Reputable respectable Show breeders will not use the words 'baby doll face'. __________________ Jenny Mimi Momo Princess Turbo Madan Pin Brush: www.toplinepet.com

04-15-2014, 01:47 PM	#9
MyFairLacy Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 11,003	We have a great group that show Yorkies here in TX, and I think most of us would welcome another exhibitor since so many have stopped showing in the past few years. The head is really open to interpretation and personal preference. The standard says muzzle not too long. It should have a 90 degree stop and not be dish faced or down faced. Length of muzzle can rang...shouldn't be overly long or overly short though. I prefer a slightly shorter, broader muzzle. Some prefer a more terrier head, some a "cuter" face. I guess I prefer cuter but not an overly smushed muzzle. That is not correct. So far as eyes, the eyes should be medium sized and almond shaped. You don't want big round eyes, even though some do have them. Some pet breeders are breeding an extreme head that has a very short muzzle and large round wideset eyes and this is not correct and a little creepy looking in my opinion. The key is MODERATE in yorkies. Feel free to contact me privately if you'd like to chat...I could introduce you to some other yorkie exhibitors if you are interested. __________________ ~Magnifique Yorkies~ Purchasing from backyard breeders, pet shops, and puppymills perpetuates the suffering of other dogs. Educate yourself and buy from reputable breeders or rescue.

04-13-2014, 07:44 AM	#2
theporkieyorkie YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: dearborn heights Posts: 1,148	It sounds like what you are looking for is what some people refer to the baby face yorkie... Here is a thread on here about the baby doll faces... http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...hats-mean.html It generally means a shorter nose and wider set eyes. As you can see from the thread, it's sort of a hot word, like the word "teacup," but it's just a word used to describe the type of face. I have one yorkie with more of a foxy face...I think of him as more of the older, traditional style yorkie, and I have one with more of a newer age baby face. He's also fined boned. IMO, he looks like a puppy that never grew up and I find his look absolutely adorable. His muzzle isn't short enough for his tongue to hang out and he's not super tiny either so he's not an extreme baby doll(as some of the breeders like to use as a catch phrase)...he's just got more of a square shorter muzzle and head with eyes that are more pronounced than my other pup. I adopted both as adults so I have no idea what either looked like as puppies to know the difference..but I've often wondered if you can tell the difference between the two types of face as puppies as well.

04-13-2014, 08:16 AM	#3
Sandyld7 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Franklin TX Posts: 4	Thank you, theporkieyorkie for your reply. Not sure about what to call it, I just know I have seen the look on little faces at the dog show waiting to go into the ring, and could help but think "how adorable"! I know I DO NOT want a teacup. I have done enough research so far to know they are not the standard and have a host of issues. Obviously, that would never fly for a show prospect. I guess the Yorkies I have seen with longer noses (maybe what people are calling the terrier nose?) are not as cute. I have also seen some with small eyes, and I did not find that attractive, either. Since I don't know anyone raising and showing Yorkies very well (beyond initial conversations) it is hard to know if I am asking the wrong question to the wrong person. I know many breeds have disagreements on looks that are being produced and put up in the show ring. That is certainly the case with labs, which is why I wanted to ask about that. I am trying to do lots of research on my "quest", as the puppy will be a lifetime commitment. There is so much to learn in trying to understand what to look for, obviously. Your link to the previous discussion did help!

04-13-2014, 08:31 AM	#4
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	Sadly, most internet searches and classified ads are put there by backyard breeders and puppy mills. If you are really interested in a Yorkie that is close to meeting the AKC standard for a Yorkie then visit a breeder that actually shows their dogs. Now, I am not saying that everyone who shows is necessarily reputable but you have a better chance of finding a good one if you go to your local AKC sanctioned dog club and ask for their breeder referral person. The people who belong to these clubs are trying to meet the standard as closely as possible and many of them are very serious about preventing genetic defects and other weaknesses that can occur in purebreds. Here is a link to the AKC club search page. American Kennel Club - Club Search and Directory Most clubs list the breeder referral person right there on your search results. Do a search for a conformation club in your state or surrounding states. You can also check to see if the state has any Yorkshire Terrier clubs. The YTCA also has a website that will give you some good information about what to look for and of course if you read the "sticky" areas here at YT you will find helpful info. Right now small dog breeding is at an all time high in this country. The increase, however, has not been in knowledgeable breeders that understand the genetic difficulties of breeding purebreds. The increase has been in home style breeders and puppy mills that will breed any apparently purebred dogs they get their hands on. Purebreds are genetically manipulated dogs. It takes many generations of experimental breeding to create a purebred that will consistently reproduce uniformly. It takes only on or two generations of poor breeding practices to cause a purebred to deteriorate from the standard. That is why you see so many purebreds that have attributes that are not at all like the breed standard. You will see Yorkies with floppy ears and under or over sized. Large eyes and short noses are not in the breed standard. These may be very nice pets but those who breed a Yorkie to look like that are playing with fire. Genetic defects abound with that sort of breeding. It is a good idea to go to some dog shows. They are fun for dog lovers and you can learn a lot. Go to at least two or three breeders and look at their dogs and observe how the dogs are kept. You will see a lot of variation but you should always see dogs that are happy and healthy as well as well cared for. A bad breeder will have too many dogs and lots of cages.....OR.....they will not allow you to see hardly any of their dogs and will only bring out very few pups or maybe only one for you to see. That would be either a broker that works for a puppy mill or someone who does not want you to see the conditions their dogs live under. Never buy a pup or a dog from a breeder that wants to bring the animal to your home or meet you somewhere. A good breeder will have lots of information about the ancestry of their dogs. They will have information about the genetic testing done on their breeding stock as well as plenty of show win pictures and trophies on display. Learn all you can so when you go to meet a breeder you know what to ask for and also so you know what you are looking at. Good luck on your search. Hopefully your new Yorkie will be with you for many, many years to come so take your time and get just the right one.

04-14-2014, 06:23 PM	#6
Sandyld7 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Franklin TX Posts: 4	Hello gracielove and thanks for your response. I have actually been doing searches for quite some time now, and have contacted breeders on the YTCA list for my state and have also been attempting to talk to some at shows. As I explained above, I show Labs, so much of what you said is what I have also told many others looking for labs. However, approaching a breeder and asking the right questions can be a daunting task, and I know this from when I started out "green" in Labs. I posted here because I thought it might be interesting to get feedback that I have not gotten from the breeders I have talked to so far. I am trying to understand type as it relates to the Yorkie. I was sure if there was the same divide among Yorkie breeders on type as there is in Labs. You mentioned that larger eyes and shorter noses are not in the breed standard, yet that is what I have seen at shows, and even the picture of the pup on the AKC site, here: Yorkshire Terrier Page I really lean towards that look, and thus the reason for my question. I have read the standard on the AKC site, but that does not really give me the visual I was looking for. I tend to research things to the end degree (that is part of the fun) and was struggling to understand. I thought there might be some show breeders that might chime in on type. Thanks again for your input!

04-15-2014, 06:56 PM	#10
Sandyld7 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Franklin TX Posts: 4	theporkieyorkie - thanks for posting the pictures. The first pup is cute, but certainly looks a little odd next to the Yorkies I have seen at shows. I am NOT looking for a tiny one - hoping for around 5 pounds or so. Your comments on bone structure are intriguing - those are things I am trying to learn about Yorkies. mimimomo - thanks for the article link! I am going to read this - love doing the research. MyFairLacy - I would love to talk to you! I appreciate your description of the head, and have lots of other questions if you are willing to talk to me. I am sending you private message.