spay or no

[impish]

Hmmm let's see... real scientific evidence showing that there are health risks is foolishness? Don't read it and at least make an educated decision???

For gods sake.

For the record. My breeder - A VERY VERY reputable breeder YTCA and someone who is extremely respected far and wide is reconsidering mandatory spay and neutering because of some of this new information coming out.

She cares more for the health of her dogs than the possibility of them being bred.

I don't think that's foolishness. It's at least worth a read and consideration.

Sorry but I think shutting down people from educating themselves just because it isn't consistent with you agenda is shortsighted.

Let's see...

Scientific evidence is mounting that gonad removal can deliver serious consequences to a dog’s future health. Among those consequences: shortened lifespan, atypical Cushing’s disease, cardiac tumors, bone cancer, abnormal bone growth and development, CCL ruptures, and hip dysplasia.

But that's okay because at least we can make sure they won't get pregnant!

There are other ways to prevent pregnancy and it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Sorry but I get so angry when people call something that is CLEARLY not foolish, foolish.

Also what's foolish? Spaying and shortening my dog's life and risking her health - a dog that never gets free, never goes off leash, never comes in contact with in-tack males?

At the end of the day it's not a one size fits all and this is still America and about choice.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Didn't read the link because I feel its foolishness. It would be a much worse for a 3 pound dog to get pregnant then to be spayed. Millions of dogs are spayed and many of them live long health lives. Can you imagine if people stopped spaying how many more millions of dogs we would be killing every year in shelters and how many unhealthy dogs and pups we would have.

[impish]

Wanted to add one more thing - I think people should make these decisions with eyes wide open and I know there are a lot of health benefits to spaying/neutering as well and they aren't foolish either.

For the record, Pluto is neutered.

[ColesMommy01]

Originally Posted by impish

Hmmm let's see... real scientific evidence showing that there are health risks is foolishness? Don't read it and at least make an educated decision???

For gods sake.

For the record. My breeder - A VERY VERY reputable breeder YTCA and someone who is extremely respected far and wide is reconsidering mandatory spay and neutering because of some of this new information coming out.

She cares more for the health of her dogs than the possibility of them being bred.

I don't think that's foolishness. It's at least worth a read and consideration.

Sorry but I think shutting down people from educating themselves just because it isn't consistent with you agenda is shortsighted.

Let's see...

Scientific evidence is mounting that gonad removal can deliver serious consequences to a dog’s future health. Among those consequences: shortened lifespan, atypical Cushing’s disease, cardiac tumors, bone cancer, abnormal bone growth and development, CCL ruptures, and hip dysplasia.

But that's okay because at least we can make sure they won't get pregnant!

There are other ways to prevent pregnancy and it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Sorry but I get so angry when people call something that is CLEARLY not foolish, foolish.

Also what's foolish? Spaying and shortening my dog's life and risking her health - a dog that never gets free, never goes off leash, never comes in contact with in-tack males?

At the end of the day it's not a one size fits all and this is still America and about choice.

You are undeniably kicka**

[IDPiper]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There are many many scientific reasons to spay. The one I know most is mammary cancer when they are spayed before there first heat they have a 0.05% chance of developing it! spayed after first heat they have an 8% chance then after the second heat it raises to 26% and so on. I am positive there is more scientific research. There is an infection that can happen that if your dog gets it they have 24 hours and if you don't realize it and get them treatment for it soon enough your dog dies this infection only happens in un spayed females. Then there is the fact if you ever have to board your dog or have some one else watch them what happens if they go into heat while your gone and the boarder or babysitter is not careful and you end up with a pregnancy when you have done no health testing on your dogs or know there lines so you are putting your dog in danger because pregnancy in even the healthiest females can be dangerous but your bring puppies into this world that could later have genetic issues pop up of just be sick and suffer there whole lives. Also if your female dies you are stuck feeding puppies every 2 hours for at least 6 weeks. Then there is the fact that Yorkies are high on the stolen list and there are people who will watch you see you have a Yorkie and break into your house and steal your dog then when they find out it's not fixed bingo they hit the jackpot and it's worth a lot more money and could be sold to a puppy mill and or back yard breeder putting your dog in a life of hell.

You really should read the article, it is written by Dr. Becker. Yes, if it was medically necessary I would do it but there are studies that disprove or at least cast a shadow of doubt on if spaying will prevent mammary cancer. All of the what ifs that you mention are things that need to be evaluated for risk of by the pet owner.

[IDPiper]

Originally Posted by impish

Hmmm let's see... real scientific evidence showing that there are health risks is foolishness? Don't read it and at least make an educated decision???

For gods sake.

For the record. My breeder - A VERY VERY reputable breeder YTCA and someone who is extremely respected far and wide is reconsidering mandatory spay and neutering because of some of this new information coming out.

She cares more for the health of her dogs than the possibility of them being bred.

I don't think that's foolishness. It's at least worth a read and consideration.

Sorry but I think shutting down people from educating themselves just because it isn't consistent with you agenda is shortsighted.

Let's see...

Scientific evidence is mounting that gonad removal can deliver serious consequences to a dog’s future health. Among those consequences: shortened lifespan, atypical Cushing’s disease, cardiac tumors, bone cancer, abnormal bone growth and development, CCL ruptures, and hip dysplasia.

But that's okay because at least we can make sure they won't get pregnant!

There are other ways to prevent pregnancy and it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Sorry but I get so angry when people call something that is CLEARLY not foolish, foolish.

Also what's foolish? Spaying and shortening my dog's life and risking her health - a dog that never gets free, never goes off leash, never comes in contact with in-tack males?

At the end of the day it's not a one size fits all and this is still America and about choice.

Well said!!!

[Hrossen11]

It is a personal decision, but I spay/ neuter my animals because I don't want to have to worry about the testrone in males and I don't want to worry about heat cycles in females. I can take my pets out whenever and not ave to worry about any oops happening. Also, both of my large dogs are 12

[MyFairLacy]

There are health risks and benefits of any medical procedure.

I can say that all my PETS and any dog I'm no longer breeding will be spayed/neutered. Heat cycles are a huge inconvenience when you have intact males in the house. The boys are going nuts, girls are nuts, barking/howling/whining escalates, you have to separate and be extra careful for almost 3 weeks...it's just not a fun time. I do require all puppies I sell to be spayed/neutered because I don't want them bred...there are some owners that are responsible enough to always keep them from breeding, but sometimes even the most careful owners have accidental breedings occur. I know responsible breeders that have had accidental breedings occur.

My spayed/neutered pets are more layed back. Some of the intact Females I've had fought Nd had to always be separated and my intact boys will fight and have to be kept separate. Another situation that's not fun to deal with.

Just my opinion on things...

[Faboosh]

I just feel like for her to be so small, it'd be life threatening for her not to be spayed and get pregnant. If you're not able to monitor her every heat cycle of her life to ensure she isn't able to get pregnant, please weigh whether it's riskier to keep her in tact or not.

[MyFairLacy]

One risk to staying unaltered is pyometra....with each heat cycle, the risk of pyometra increases. If you end up with a closed pyometra it is usually recommended to spay as it's hard to treat an infection that has no way of draining itself from the body...you end up with a swollen, inflammed, pus-filled uterus...riskier surgery, especially on a tiny one.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Didn't read the link because I feel its foolishness. It would be a much worse for a 3 pound dog to get pregnant then to be spayed. Millions of dogs are spayed and many of them live long health lives. Can you imagine if people stopped spaying how many more millions of dogs we would be killing every year in shelters and how many unhealthy dogs and pups we would have.

You didn't read? How then do you keep current with new and the ever advancing health knowledge that is underway? THat is very short-sighted of you.

And yes milllions of dogs are spayed but the research is building the preponderance of evidence that in actual fact they do NOT live long and HEALTHY lives. Most especially in these early days in North America for the large breed dogs.

Surrendered dogs has nothing to do with with a spay and neuter policy, surely European countries have proved this claim false. Responsible folks will quite frankly be responsible if they have the education and the tools to be so. Responsible folks are the ones neutering their animals, because they thought it was always the best overall thing to do, for the health of their dog, to insure that THEY don't contribute to the pet over population problem. Irresponsible folks are the ones contributing to the pet over population problem. Ya know the ones out to make a buck? The commercial pet breeders, the stores that sell to any Tom Dick or Harry, and your neighbourhood back yard breeder.

And btw the argument can be at this point in research time be made, that the "when" is particularly important for all dogs, males or females, large or small. So if a six month delay beyond the usual six month old time frame for de-sexing generates a 50% decreased overall health risk across the board, why not wait?????? And in fact get the vets educated in other surgical procedures for stopping procreation. Tubal ligation, vascetomies are very viable options and keep the important sexual hormones happening.

I do encourage you to do the reading.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

There are health risks and benefits of any medical procedure.

I can say that all my PETS and any dog I'm no longer breeding will be spayed/neutered. Heat cycles are a huge inconvenience when you have intact males in the house. The boys are going nuts, girls are nuts, barking/howling/whining escalates, you have to separate and be extra careful for almost 3 weeks...it's just not a fun time. I do require all puppies I sell to be spayed/neutered because I don't want them bred...there are some owners that are responsible enough to always keep them from breeding, but sometimes even the most careful owners have accidental breedings occur. I know responsible breeders that have had accidental breedings occur.

My spayed/neutered pets are more layed back. Some of the intact Females I've had fought Nd had to always be separated and my intact boys will fight and have to be kept separate. Another situation that's not fun to deal with.

Just my opinion on things...

At this point in time, my contract is being modified to disallow de-sexing prior to full maturity for my large breed dogs. \if done my health warrantee is null and void.... That is how serious I believe is, the deleterious effects of early spay and neuter for my large breed.

My personal experience with multiple studs and females in the same home, environment is mixed. Even when my female was in heat, my BRT and my YT full males did not mix it up. Came close, and standing heat is not something that is easy to go through with two full males in the home, but they did just okay together. Also I was on vacation for a week with at least three full YT studs and one BRT stud with 8 females of which only one was de-sexed. No male problems YT on YT or BRT to male YT's not of his pack.

ON the other hand, I have had BRT males I have had to keep a very wide margin of space with my male BRT.

In summary, I guess it truly depends upon the character of the dogs, which is something that is not evident until full maturity.

My experience in training and in multiple performance sports and venues, the most aggression often comes from de-sexed males, followed by de-sexed females, followed by older full females.

[IDPiper]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

There are health risks and benefits of any medical procedure.

I can say that all my PETS and any dog I'm no longer breeding will be spayed/neutered. Heat cycles are a huge inconvenience when you have intact males in the house. The boys are going nuts, girls are nuts, barking/howling/whining escalates, you have to separate and be extra careful for almost 3 weeks...it's just not a fun time. I do require all puppies I sell to be spayed/neutered because I don't want them bred...there are some owners that are responsible enough to always keep them from breeding, but sometimes even the most careful owners have accidental breedings occur. I know responsible breeders that have had accidental breedings occur.

My spayed/neutered pets are more layed back. Some of the intact Females I've had fought Nd had to always be separated and my intact boys will fight and have to be kept separate. Another situation that's not fun to deal with.

Just my opinion on things...

I agree that there are health risks and benefits of any procedure but in the case of spaying and neutering, the risks far outway the benefits as far as I'm concerned. Mammary cancer has had a shadow of doubt cast in favor of spaying, pyometra can be treated after the fact (and yes with some risk). I would love to see some percentage data on intact females that have actually developed these "preventable if spayed" diseases. I personally would love to see vets learning how to do tubal ligations and vasectomies opposed to total desexing, then we could have the best of both worlds.

It's just something to look at for people that are on the fence about spaying/neutering vs not spaying/neutering.

I personally have no male dogs so the heat cycle would not be that much of an inconvenience. My dog is an indoor dog and when she is outside it is never alone and never off leash.

[Connie]

Originally Posted by impish

Hmmm let's see... real scientific evidence showing that there are health risks is foolishness? Don't read it and at least make an educated decision???

For gods sake.

For the record. My breeder - A VERY VERY reputable breeder YTCA and someone who is extremely respected far and wide is reconsidering mandatory spay and neutering because of some of this new information coming out.

She cares more for the health of her dogs than the possibility of them being bred.

I don't think that's foolishness. It's at least worth a read and consideration.

Sorry but I think shutting down people from educating themselves just because it isn't consistent with you agenda is shortsighted.

Let's see...

Scientific evidence is mounting that gonad removal can deliver serious consequences to a dog’s future health. Among those consequences: shortened lifespan, atypical Cushing’s disease, cardiac tumors, bone cancer, abnormal bone growth and development, CCL ruptures, and hip dysplasia.

But that's okay because at least we can make sure they won't get pregnant!

There are other ways to prevent pregnancy and it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Sorry but I get so angry when people call something that is CLEARLY not foolish, foolish.

Also what's foolish? Spaying and shortening my dog's life and risking her health - a dog that never gets free, never goes off leash, never comes in contact with in-tack males?

At the end of the day it's not a one size fits all and this is still America and about choice.

[IDPiper]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I was thinking if I should pay is zoey at 7 months and because she has and introverted vulva which she is prone to infections I guess so I was wondering if I should spay her early or not she's also 2&a half pounds I don't know if anyone here has ever spayed there pup
at two and a half pounds?

I have been doing some research on this and I found some interesting information on a Labrador Retriever forum and they say you should not spay your dog with an inverted vulva until she has had her first heat because that will correct it and prevent a lifetime of UTI's. Do lots of research and make an educated decision based on your research opposed to following blindly.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by IDPiper

You really should read the article, it is written by Dr. Becker. Yes, if it was medically necessary I would do it but there are studies that disprove or at least cast a shadow of doubt on if spaying will prevent mammary cancer. All of the what ifs that you mention are things that need to be evaluated for risk of by the pet owner.

I can tell you from personal experience that in a female spayed before her first heat there is almost no mammary tissue the nipples are flat against the chest and it feels flat like the rest of the skin. In a female who is not spayed or spayed after her first heat it is different so I highly believe there is a difference and a higher chance in mammary cancer because they are move formed and there is more tissue there.