over vaccinating is bad for our pets
 

Dog Vaccination Side Effects - Are We Vaccinating Dogs Too Much? | Know Better Pet Food

Please read this link and stand up for your pets. They are the ones suffering from Over Vaccinating. If your a breeder please talk to your new puppy parents about this.

:thumbup: Great post- I agree. Everyone should learn about the possible side effects of vaccines! Everyone make sure you space apart your vaccines and talk to your vet about preventing allergic reactions.

I prefer to titer my little girl to see when she needs her booster shot.

My little girl, Ashley, had a heart condition that we discovered when she was close to eleven. We stopped giving her all vaccines. We walked daily at least a couple of miles and went many different places. I'm sure she probably still had her immunity from when she was younger, but she did fine without the shots. She lived one month shy of seventeen.

Thank you for sharing this, Lori. I have read some things from Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds, but this is excellent, too.

I hope the pendulum doesn't swing the other way, and people think they don't need to get puppy vaccinations, or the first yearly booster. Also, even if you decide you don't want to get yearly shots, it's still a good idea to get a well pet check up and do blood work for heartworm. We also get titers, because I like knowing that they have immunity for parvo and distemper.

I like the titers also. They give me peace of mind. The only reason we stopped giving all shots including rabies is because my veterinarian thought they would be unsafe for Ashley.

I agree. Currently I follow Dr Dodds Vaccination protocol, But I always let any new owners know about the importance to continue the puppy boosters and follow up with the adult vaccination then figure out the vaccine schedule they feel comfortable with. I also stress about well checks and heartworm check in my contracts. I also stress that titers are important and although they may cost a little more it is worth the cost if you are preventing other medical issues that pop up from over vaccinating.

Annual heartworm test is mandatory to continue purchasing HW preventatives. I too hope that no one would skip an annual checkup.

I was very happy to read Crystal's post that newer vaccination protocols call for a 5-year interval for many of the core vaccines. Max already had 2 checkups and a rabies vacc, so I am holding off on his DHPP.

I thought titering is still a bit controversial relative to accuracy.

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Yup on the titering. It's most 'accurate' usage is for dogs who arrive into shelter/rescue and they're trying to confirm whether or not previous vax has ever been given to avoid over-vaxing (just using as example). As far as immunity - it can't confirm it, sadly. A dog can have a positive titer and still get the disease; they can have a negative titer yet still be immune. They can have humoral immunity but no cellular immunity and vice versa.

That said, titers can provide some assurance that some form of immunity *might* be present.

I read on YT that titering is practically worthless several times, but Dr. Jeane Dodds gives a different story. Since I'm taking her advice on immunization scheduling, I'm worried, if she's all wrong with her advice on titering. Here's what Dr. Dodds says on titer testing. From my understanding, every test has false positives and visa versa, but it's considered to be a low enough effect to make the test still valuable.


So bottom line, if it only gives "some assurance that some form of immunity *might* be present" it sounds pretty worthless.

When I first joined YT there was a very long thread on why are we still vaccinating our dogs. I had read a bit about the titer testing variables and issues with various tests, labs, handling/processing, readings and questioned whether or not the process was indeed a viable enough one throughout to be relied upon in any strict sense but most responses to me then seemed to think titer testing was the way to go. It does seem there might be enough worry about them as to keep vaccinating unless there are real contraindications or other significant reasons against.

I found another article where Dr. Dodds says she doesn't recommend titering for other diseases besides parvo and distemper and says that titering for other things is a waste of money, could that be part of the confusion? TITER TEST

"Confusion" is a particularly descriptive term of how I felt after reading the things I did back in 2011 about the whole process and which tests were effective, how they were handled, processed and interpreted by the lab/vet and then what that actually told them about that dog's immune response to that disease on that day vs. next month or upon a sudden insult of infection, etc. There seemed to be much surmising and assuming, uses of words like "may", "likely" and "probable", etc., in final statements at the ends of articles that I was left feeling I knew very little more than when I began.

That's just scientific writing, they HAVE to write tentatively, there are very few absolutes, but the margin of area is really small and especially since all tests have to be replicated. That is the way I was taught to write when interpreting results. It's only the amateur who is 100% certain.

I'm in agreement with you, Nancy, about Dr. Dodds. She has spent so much of her medical career studying the affects of vaccination, and so has Dr. Schultz. I don't think anything is foolproof, but the risks of overvaccinating to me are a great concern, and it seems that titering is an excellent alternative. My vet was very happy when I asked about titering. He prefers to test every year rather than every three years, which is fine with me. My Ashley went six years not being vaccinated, and although we didn't go to dog parks or pet stores, she walked a great deal and went many places with me. Most likely dogs are fully immunized after they get their one year boosters, but I know I would worry too much if I didn't titer.

Yeah, I'm the same way, the diseases are horrible and I know I would be worried sick, if my boys didn't have protection, but on the other hand, I hate the thought that the titers aren't giving me reliable information.

I have a question for those who choose to limit their dog's vaccinations. How do you have a conversation with your vet about which vaccines you want/don't want administered without offending your vet? It seems like that would be a difficult conversation to have. I looked over Dr. Dodd's Vaccination Protocol & according to it, it seems like the typical pet gets A LOT more than they actually need. My breeder also gave me a book about this. So I'm just wondering how open your vets were to the idea.

My vet was a little skeptical. He hates online forums! He's seen the results of no vaccines and told me the story of a parvo outbreak where so many dogs died and in his opinion, the results of over vaccinating are not as clear as the results of under vaccinating. The only thing he mentioned was autoimmune disease, and I guess he doesn't see a lot of that. He's heard Dr. Dodd speak, and while he values her opinion, he doesn't think it's as clear as she seems to think, so I blamed Joey's breeder!

The purpose of titers is to check a few weeks after vaccinating to see if an immune response was stimulated. They fall over time. That is normal. A titer does not have to be high/stable for a dog to be protected.

It won't hurt a darn thing to test, but a low titer means next to nothing. If I remember correctly, Schultz says a titer as low as 1:2 is considered protective, but individual labs have different ideas. So just because a lab says the result is borderline does not mean revaccination is needed. You can give it "just to be safe", and that's fine, but doing so is putting more and more unnecessary toxic chemicals into your pup which can cause very serious diseases.

I stopped titering when Ellie's distemper came back low, then a year after revaccination came back borderline. She could just have a quick falling titer for this disease and be completely protected or it could be lab error and she could be completely protected or she could be a nonresponder and vaccinating would do no good for it to be low twice. For which of these reasons would it make sense to test and then likely have to vaccinate yearly? When vaccines only have to he about 88-90% effective anyway? Pointless for me.

It is my opinion that after the one year booster they either are protected or they aren't. Low titer or not revaccinating every year accomplishes nothing. I think I'd sooner revaccine every 5-7 years (because DHP is effective by challenge for at least that long) instead of spending $90/year for a headache of confusion.

FWIW, Ellie is 12. Her last distemper was given when she was 6. She is alive. ;) I can't think of a good enough reason to revaccinate an old goat like her. Vaccinating for no reason isn't going to make the liver happy either.

I respect Dr. schultz, but when it comes down to it if I'm being honest I would not trust Dodds with my dogs. Just look at everything she believes in....

BTW, I would never want to talk anybody out of titering. Just don't feel like every vet that understands immunology believes in doing it yearly. Look at the AAHA task force. I see nothing in their every 3 year guidelines about titering in between.

Our vet's office promotes annual vaccinations, so I was nervous bringing up the subject with our doctor. I barely completed the first sentence when the doctor said, "The 3 year plan is fine." I am a little bit concerned that our doctor assumes my boys are essentially indoor, never touch the floor type dogs, no matter what I try to say about being outdoors and going places.

No vaccines, or insufficient vaccines? How often do you give your boys the DHPP?

Katie needed both her rabies and her booster this past May. I was thrilled when my vet said that he didn't want Katie to have both vaccines the same day and that he wanted to wait a month between them. Once I asked about titering, he said that was his preference, since he did not want her to have a vaccine unless it was necessary. We gave her a rabies vaccine because that would have involved sending the blood to California, and regardless, I'm still not sure how New York handles a rabies titer. The vet techs said that some boarding places, groomers, etc. don't recognize a titer test, but that wasn't a concern to me.

I have been with the same vet for fifteen years, and I have great faith in him. I would have listened closely to his concerns if he was against titering, but I still think it's important to be well informed.

This is not what Dr. Dodds says, she says to titer before you do the immunizations. Also, she says, that a low titer gives you valuable information, "When the tests reveal that the animal has borderline or low titer values, the owner and veterinarian should consider revaccinating and then testing the titers again. It may turn out that the animal simply needed a booster to stimulate a stronger immune response. Or, maybe the people involved learn that the animal lacks the ability to respond normally to vaccines, that is, by mounting a proper immune response. In this case, the owner and veterinarian have gained very valuable information about the dog’s compromised immune status – information they never would have gained by simply vaccinating and assuming the dog was “protected” as is usually the case with healthy dogs. As you can see, in reality, simply administering vaccines to dogs every year is more of a guessing game than using titer tests to learn about the dog’s immune competence."

I mean, I can understand why you've made the decision for Ellie May, but what do you mean you wouldn't trust Dr. Dodds and please tell us more about why. I have no idea what else she believe in.

We were getting an annual booster every year until 2010 and since then the titers have said they are covered.

Do you get the bordetella?

Humans and dogs get different diseases but there is nothing to indicate that the immune systems of each are that different. Live, attenuated virus vaccines would be things like distemper, parvo, and measles. So my question is this:

Have you had your measles titer checked this year?:D

No bordetella. Max had it once when he was 13 weeks old.

I didn't titer Ashley, even though we didn't give her vaccines between the age of eight and seventeen. My veterinarian thought the risks of vaccines were too high. We wouldn't be titering Katie yearly, either, if she had had the DHPP booster this May. Since we titered her this May instead of giving her the booster, my vet recommended that we do it again next spring. In my fifteen years with him, I have never felt that he is doing any unnecessary treatment for the money it would bring him. I'm not sure if the results are valid, but if my vet feels it would be safer to titer every year, I have no problem with it. There seemed to be conflicting information from Dr. Schultz and Dodds about how often to titer when a pup is not immunized.

I should add that our vet knows we are there often. With other dogs, I think part of the concern is that the dog won't have a wellness check for years if no vaccination is scheduled. Some people will argue that the vet's motive is solely more visits and profit, but I do think there is also a general health concern.

No, but I'm not worried about getting measles. We are often in a park that many dogs use, Joey and Ralphie are not lap dogs.

Thanks, I was worried about not getting him that too.

She is a major veterinary homeopathy supporter, which is fine if that is the kind of medicine you believe in...

Her views on heartworm preventative and balanced diets are not good, imo.


Rylee will also only be vaccinated every 5 years. The kids do not go to and never will be allowed to go to dog parks but they definitely are allowed where strange dogs have been. My biggest concern here is lepto honestly..

I think if titering makes an owner feel more secure then they should do it. But just like vaccinating doesn't mean 100% protection for all dogs, neither does a high titer.

BTW, I don't think Dodds even recommends titering annually for most dogs. Triennially or more...

The AAHA, AVMA, and all veterinary schools in the US seem to be fine with vaccinating no more than every 3 years without mentioning titers.

ETA: It is good to titer before and after, but weeks after to see if the vaccine 'took'. It will naturally drop a year after.

Dodds and Schultz also seem to have differing opinions on what a low titer represents. Dodds says revaccinate. It looks like Schultz says that unless it is 0 it is ok.