Yorkies on Dog Whisperer

[gracielove]

I haven't watched Cesare in the past three years. Basically most people do not have a clue about how to train a dog. I have found that some new dog owners actually don't realize that dogs don't just learn things on their own. It's sad. It is true that the people need to be trained first.

Cesare has gotten much more aggressive in his approach over the years and that bothers me. Maybe it is just that they started to show the dogs with more serious problems after a few seasons in order to maintain interest. The show that Brit posted is a real heart breaker. You cannot stop aggression with aggression and fear tactics.

Training should be about establishing trust, setting boundaries and being consistent with tons of praise and reward. I never use fear, intimidation, anger or physical punishment when dealing with problem behaviors. If a dog does not trust and respect a person then that person is going to have to obtain the result they want through fear, intimidation and physical punishment. That kind of dog will always be a loose cannon, a danger to other people and animals. A dog controlled by fear is a dangerous dog. That is not the result I want.

There are many ideas about training dogs but a "whisperer" should be someone who knows the animal's body language and can easily pinpoint what is causing the animal's problem. That person should be able to communicate to the animal what is expected of it without fear or physical force. Since Cesare has moved on to other methods I do not think the title of his show fits his training concept.

As for the Yorkies in the OP's post....they did needed training. The owners had always just let them do whatever they wanted to do. That is the kind of thing that gives small dogs such a bad reputation. It is not the size or the breed, it is the lack of knowledge that the owners have about training their dogs. Training should start from the first day a puppy or dog comes into the home.

[Marhcarter]

Originally Posted by LilysMomma

Hi everyone. I have to respectfully disagree with some of the points above. As a dog trainer myself I can say that Cesar has inspired many pet owners to acknowledge and seek out the understanding of their dog and the needs of the dog as separate from the human needs from the dog, psychologically speaking.

You can put 10 dog trainers - heck 10 dog parents, in the same room and they all will have a different idea of how things should be done. Cesar has a deep passion for animals and pure love in his heart for their well being. I applaud any person or thing that can bring together a group of people who want what's best for their dogs. Is there one right way to do something, especially dog training, obedience? No. Should Cesar's entertainment show be the only means for a dog parent to learn how to teach their dog basic obedience? Absolutely not. I find Cesar to be a great resource and work with a colleague trained directly by Cesar at the Dog Psychology Center. Using Cesar's techniques daily, I can certainly attest for the fact that our energy and what we project on to our dogs is a huge factor in their behavior, confidence, health, etc. I could go on and on. I appreciate his show for what it is, it should be used as just a part of a healthy balanced education on the needs of your dog. His worldview on how dogs live in the moment and relishing being in the "now" with your dog, the enjoyment of spending time with your dog - these things are priceless and should be shared by all who parent a dog.

Excellent points. I agree. No one person has all the answers and these shows should be used as educational tools.
I also agree that many times it is the owner that needs the education more than the dog.

[richards6402]

I used to watch Cesar any time I could catch his show. I saw the Holly episode when it originally aired. I couldn't believe how he handled the situation and then put it in one of his episodes. The only good thing I think he advocates is.....exercise, discipline and then affection.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by LilysMomma

Hi everyone. I have to respectfully disagree with some of the points above. As a dog trainer myself I can say that Cesar has inspired many pet owners to acknowledge and seek out the understanding of their dog and the needs of the dog as separate from the human needs from the dog, psychologically speaking.

As a dog trainer, then you should know that the AVSAB disapproves 100% of these methods.

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

Here is their statement on dominance training. ^

I would like to know why you are utilizing a theory that has been disproved by the very people who created it? Just curious.

I've been able to enjoy the experience of bonding and learning with a dog through truly positive reinforcement. Then I discovered clicker training as well. It's really amazing what you can do with a dog with a little encouragement and positive vibes. And as I said, I'm not taking never saying "no" or that I'm perfect, but I don't want a "perfect" robot dog.

I am not my dogs "pack leader" nor his "alpha". He doesn't obey commands because he HAS to... he does because he WANTS to and he ENJOYS pleasing me. He's my best friend, my every day companion, and my heart.

And with positive reinforcement, he knows well over 100 commands and tricks and names. He comes to me happily when I call his name (ok, most of the time! ), he has gotten over his fear of strangers, he has graduated agility classes, and is well on his way to becoming a canine good citizen. He's friendly with all other dogs he meets, he's able to walk into a store or go anywhere really and be on his best behavior. And this, plus much more, was accomplished without physical corrections, without dominating him or rolling him on his back, or forcing him to walk behind me (though I don't allow to pull, typically speaking), or using a prong collar/choke chain/shock collar.

Most of all, we have FUN together. We have a freakin' blast and he and I both enjoy training equally. We're a team... I'm not "above" him. We have a mutual respect for one another that's created a strong bond that will last a lifetime.

People will eventually see the light. I used to be one of the posters defending him. Looking back, I can't believe I ever watched in awe.

I watched an episode with a sheltie who was terrified of the toaster. Cesar took the toaster and pinned the dog into a corner and kept flicking the popping mechanism. The poor sheltie was terrified. His eyes were wide and he kept trying to get away. Finally, the dog was so stressed that he laid on the floor and was panting heavily. Cesar said that the dog "overcame his fear". No that's just a dog who is broken down and absolutely terrified. And this dog was not "aggressive" and shelties are known to be somewhat quirky.

When Jackson is scared or unsure of something (and he has some VERY weird quirks), I simply encourage him to check it out, bring some high value rewards, and start treating him for being close to it, or near it. I did this with the oven. He was deathly afraid after the smoke alarm went off, so he wouldn't come into the kitchen for a few weeks. It just took time and patience. I can't imagine if I had just dragged him in there and pinned him down. OMG he would be traumatized.

http://vetmedicine.about.com/b/2009/...sar-millan.htm

[Bentleysmom1985]

Originally Posted by richards6402

I used to watch Cesar any time I could catch his show. I saw the Holly episode when it originally aired. I couldn't believe how he handled the situation and then put it in one of his episodes. The only good thing I think he advocates is.....exercise, discipline and then affection

This is the only thing I agree with Cesar. I know so many people who never walk or train their dogs and then they wonder why they destroy things in the house or misbehave.

I started watching his show because it was recommended by a friend but I never made it past the second episode. I think he's way too cruel and mean to animals. >:-[

I hate when he goes "Shh shh!!" And pushes the dog the other way to stop a certain behavior.

[pink66]

I have never really paid a lot of attention to that Cesar, I really like Victoria but now it seems like these "trainers" are coming out of the woodwork. All I know is I turned on the Holly video and stopped it because I was appalled at how that dog was treated. I will avoid anything to do with him in the future-i thought he just exuded an air of cruelty.

[celstu1]

I haven't watched him a lot at all. I do remember watching an episode that I thought was great though. There was a German Sheppard, who was clearly not exercised enough. Caesar also said something about working with a breeds inherrent traits, GS are working dogs and need a job to do all the time. He suggested putting a vest with pockets on the dog and putting things in the pockets for weight, making the dog feel like he was doing a job while getting exercise. It seemed to have made a world of difference in this particular dog.
I do love Victoria Stillwell though!

[dollydoodle]

Wow, didn't realize I was going to open a can of worms here! There are lots of videos available free on Hulu.com.

[Anny Mendoza]

I can´t watch the video
It says that it's only available in the USA...

[LilysMomma]

Originally Posted by dollydoodle

Wow, didn't realize I was going to open a can of worms here! There are lots of videos available free on Hulu.com.

No kidding!! I'm with you there. As I said before - there are plenty of positive things that Cesar does and plenty of positive and negative things that other people do. When people are "upset" with Cesar's methods, they always talk about the toaster episode. I think we need to remember that there is a lot of Hollywood editing that goes in to every show - Cesar's or not. Cesar also has a team of trainers, the show is not entirely based on his efforts with the dogs. Having worked with many of his trainers and been trained myself by one of the canine behavioral specialists, I have to again insist that you understand that ALL of these trainers are different and use different techniques.

Let's all be proud that we're dog owners who do the very best for our dogs by giving them lots of exercise and positive reinforcement. There is no "right" answer here as dogs come in as many different temperaments with any and every kind of behavioral issue. I'll repeat again, you ask one question to ten different dog trainers and you'll most likely get ten different answers. I do train dogs at every level from basic obedience, puppies to seniors and dogs with disabilities as well as owners young and old, able-bodied and those with special challenges. Many of my most rewarding training experiences have been training medical assistance and therapy dogs - NONE of these dogs were EVER HARMED! I do this with love from the bottom of my heart, I've never hurt an animal and I do use many of Cesar's common sense techniques because I want what's best for the dog, not because I want my dog to do what's best for me.

Thanks for hearing me out, I think we're all speaking on behalf of the dogs here and they surely deserve our very best in the most positive way possible!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Britster

As a dog trainer, then you should know that the AVSAB disapproves 100% of these methods.

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

Here is their statement on dominance training. ^

I would like to know why you are utilizing a theory that has been disproved by the very people who created it? Just curious.

I've been able to enjoy the experience of bonding and learning with a dog through truly positive reinforcement. Then I discovered clicker training as well. It's really amazing what you can do with a dog with a little encouragement and positive vibes. And as I said, I'm not taking never saying "no" or that I'm perfect, but I don't want a "perfect" robot dog.

I am not my dogs "pack leader" nor his "alpha". He doesn't obey commands because he HAS to... he does because he WANTS to and he ENJOYS pleasing me. He's my best friend, my every day companion, and my heart.

And with positive reinforcement, he knows well over 100 commands and tricks and names. He comes to me happily when I call his name (ok, most of the time! ), he has gotten over his fear of strangers, he has graduated agility classes, and is well on his way to becoming a canine good citizen. He's friendly with all other dogs he meets, he's able to walk into a store or go anywhere really and be on his best behavior. And this, plus much more, was accomplished without physical corrections, without dominating him or rolling him on his back, or forcing him to walk behind me (though I don't allow to pull, typically speaking), or using a prong collar/choke chain/shock collar.

Most of all, we have FUN together. We have a freakin' blast and he and I both enjoy training equally. We're a team... I'm not "above" him. We have a mutual respect for one another that's created a strong bond that will last a lifetime.

People will eventually see the light. I used to be one of the posters defending him. Looking back, I can't believe I ever watched in awe.

I watched an episode with a sheltie who was terrified of the toaster. Cesar took the toaster and pinned the dog into a corner and kept flicking the popping mechanism. The poor sheltie was terrified. His eyes were wide and he kept trying to get away. Finally, the dog was so stressed that he laid on the floor and was panting heavily. Cesar said that the dog "overcame his fear". No that's just a dog who is broken down and absolutely terrified. And this dog was not "aggressive" and shelties are known to be somewhat quirky.

When Jackson is scared or unsure of something (and he has some VERY weird quirks), I simply encourage him to check it out, bring some high value rewards, and start treating him for being close to it, or near it. I did this with the oven. He was deathly afraid after the smoke alarm went off, so he wouldn't come into the kitchen for a few weeks. It just took time and patience. I can't imagine if I had just dragged him in there and pinned him down. OMG he would be traumatized.

Veterinary Behaviorists Take a Stand Against Cesar Millan

Couldn't agree more. I saw that flooding episode with the toaster! I've tried that in the past and one dog just freaked in slobbering panic, crouched low down to the ground, ears back, mouth gaping, heart rate off the charts, white gums, wall eyes and was extra fearful for a good while around his trigger fear of a swinging door after that for days - just ran. The first one I tried it on seemed to accept flooding and it helped him right away - walking through a narrow area that spooked him over and over until he lost his fear within the hour. Flooding used to be a popular technique but once I saw outright panic in a dog from flooding, NEVER again. Not a good method. I changed my thinking entirely all those years back. Anything that can do that to a dog is cruel beyond measure for some dogs and you never know which dog might react that way - just suddenly go into shock from terror of repeatedly triggering his fear! I went back to the old rewards and praise method of training - basically positive reinforcement - and began to learn that pleasant associations with the trigger in very, very short sessions followed by immediate retreat and treats are far more effective for real hard trigger fears. Once the dog is beginning to accept the trigger, treats during the triggering session are great, if the dog isn't too fearful to take them but afterward if he is. Soon, the dog will take them during the triggering event as he desensitizes. Plus, any fearful dog needs to be involved in regular positive-reinforcement obedience training, life enrichment, challenging games, frequent exercise and making it all fun for the dog with lots of enthusiasm and a great deal of cheerleading and ginning up the fun. These methods are far better ways to train a dog without stressing or confronting it.

Later I did see CM desensitizing a GSD and he used short desensitization sessions with immediate retreat and that seemed to work fine for that dog.

[M4rtin]

I also cannot watch that show since I'm in Canada.

As with everything on TV/Internet you have to take it with a grain of salt and use your own judgment.
I do not agree with a lot of things that he shows, but I also do get a lot of good pointers, that I wouldn't think about on my own.

I never heard of Victoria, but I'll google her, maybe try to find few episodes, if she has any.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by M4rtin

I also cannot watch that show since I'm in Canada.

As with everything on TV/Internet you have to take it with a grain of salt and use your own judgment.
I do not agree with a lot of things that he shows, but I also do get a lot of good pointers, that I wouldn't think about on my own.

I never heard of Victoria, but I'll google her, maybe try to find few episodes, if she has any.

I like Victoria's training for the most part. She's very kind and gentle with dogs but firm when called for. Works to teach training, behavior modification using positive reinforcement, life enrichment and slow desensitization to triggers. Her shows at the end got a little too confrontational and fake-seeming to me(a lot of "this is the worst case of _________ I've ever seen" and seemed more like a reality TV genre at times but the early years were good. Wish they would rerun all but the last two years of her shows.

[gemy]

In terms of spike collars, there is absolutely no need for a Yorkie to be trained with one.

How-ever large guard and protect breeds there is.

And each temperament of every dog is different.

Also you need to be trained in the proper use of a spike collar. You don't just purchase one, and go on to happily and "safely" use one.

I don't like Casear's dominance alpha in your face way of doing things, for all dogs.

He is 100% right that folks don't exercise their dogs enough, or train them enough.

Positive re-inforcement is great, but so is discipline and consequences for mis-behaviour. Imo for many dogs a mix of same might be necessary.

And I said this before, and again just my opinion, I would give a wide berth to any individual walking a largish dog on a Flexi Lead. Those things should be out-lawed for large breeds. You have absolutely zero control over that dog, and the handle and the small button to lock the lead is usually difficult to work in an emergency situation.
They have their use in early and continuing training situations with-in controlled environments.
But not for a walk in the park.