luxating patella

[gemy]

Just a little more reason to train to stack - or if you like call it stand

Often times you see dogs with their natural position of their feet very turned out, or worse still is one turned out and the other turned in. So just like humans over time we develop bad postural habits. WE have weak muscles here, and over used muscles there. Over time the un-equal pull and or support for our joints creates problems with our joints.

Doing this exercise daily with your dog, will help the dog to strengthen and find a new and healthier stance for themselves.

Another great exercise to do, is on your walks if there is a narrow bench - like maybe at the baseball field, or some parks use railings around plantings. Take your dog up on these and walk close beside them. The dog will automatically need to place their feet deliberately. You know in agility they have the teeter totter, and that ramp thingie; can't remember the name of the equipment right now too early not enough java!

Also a good one is Cavaletti training. You can get pvc piping and cut down to appropriate size. I did a posting somewhere on here about that.

You can train the trot with this. Also there is a exercise where we scatter the piping at different distances and angles. The dog needs to think his gait through the piping.

[bobohyde]

Everyone has given great advice. I would only add one thing: start a savings account just for the surgery. LOL Hopefully, you will never need it. But if your pup does need it some day, you'll be prepared. Columbo had mild LP which he never had a problem with until it caused him to tear his ACL at age 8.5, then the same in the other knee 4 months later. He had surgery on both knees, which was close to $3k per knee. The vet said most of the insurance companies consider it a pre-existing condition, so you can't count on them to cover it if you have pet insurance.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by gemy

How to Train Show Dogs - Whole Dog Journal Article

Here is an article on stacking. There are also you tube videos on the subject.

The command I use is Stand - then Stay. In obedience work your dog must stand and stay for the judges examination - so I use the same commands for the show ring.
The hand commands that go with it - Palm up sliding from dogs nose forward. Stay is Fingers down palm into nose with a quick push back motion.

For toys breeds depending on the size of your lap - as puppies I like to first stack on my own legs. Very gently with muzzle cradled between my thumb and forefinger and I set the muzzle parallel to the ground. My back hand - INdex and middle finger is set between their rear legs to either side of the testes. My palm rests on their buttocks.
Start with just 10 seconds or so. And reward with treats and kisses.

How far apart should the front legs be from the back legs? Well that depends on the length of the dog. Essentially you place the front feet so that the leg bones stand straight up and down and are apart the width of the chest. Toes point directly forward.
The back legs are placed so that the toes are underneath the rear pelvis or ischium. Again toes face forwards.

I am going to tell you the method that is safe and works for all dogs of all sizes.

To adjust the legs either the front or the back, do not adjust at the feet. Instead bring one hand up to where the leg comes into the chest, gently pick up and either turn inward or outward depending on if the feet are pointed naturally out or in.
At the rear same idea but here you come up high into the groin and upper leg area and do the same adjustment.

Teaching Crawl backwards. I started Magic learning this after he learnt heel backwards. I use the command BACK - for crawling backwards and BACK HEEL for the heeling command.

So to the crawl. Place dog in the down position. Stand in front of your dog and as you confidently step forward to the dog, say BACK - even two crawls back reward immediately. Also train first on non slippery surface. Try to build up to a continual 10 feet crawl back.

Awesome! Thanks for that! Now I've got two new things to teach Uni. Unfortunately I won't turn her toes inwards. Her LP makes her toes point outward, so I'll just let her be in that dept.

The back crawl sounds doable.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by gemy

Just a little more reason to train to stack - or if you like call it stand

Often times you see dogs with their natural position of their feet very turned out, or worse still is one turned out and the other turned in. So just like humans over time we develop bad postural habits. WE have weak muscles here, and over used muscles there. Over time the un-equal pull and or support for our joints creates problems with our joints.

Doing this exercise daily with your dog, will help the dog to strengthen and find a new and healthier stance for themselves.

Another great exercise to do, is on your walks if there is a narrow bench - like maybe at the baseball field, or some parks use railings around plantings. Take your dog up on these and walk close beside them. The dog will automatically need to place their feet deliberately. You know in agility they have the teeter totter, and that ramp thingie; can't remember the name of the equipment right now too early not enough java!

Also a good one is Cavaletti training. You can get pvc piping and cut down to appropriate size. I did a posting somewhere on here about that.

You can train the trot with this. Also there is a exercise where we scatter the piping at different distances and angles. The dog needs to think his gait through the piping.

Ah, I always thought it was her LP, perhaps her outward toes are bc of her muscles? I walk with my toes out too if I'm wearing flats or sneakers, but if I'm wearing heels I walk straight. Maybe I should get Uni some heels.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Ah, I always thought it was her LP, perhaps her outward toes are bc of her muscles? I walk with my toes out too if I'm wearing flats or sneakers, but if I'm wearing heels I walk straight. Maybe I should get Uni some heels.

LOL on the high heels. Just how far turned out are her toes? Also stand in front of a mirror with Uni and stack her up in the air, then look at how her leg stance is non weight bearing. That will give you a hint of structural versus muscular source for the turn out.

If she is greatly turned out like 10 degrees or more, then I would start re-training back inwards gradually.

[Jacksmom052709]

Gemy - Jack has the worst bow legs (front legs) that I have ever seen and they seem to be getting worse - do you think stacking will help him with that?

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Jacksmom052709

Gemy - Jack has the worst bow legs (front legs) that I have ever seen and they seem to be getting worse - do you think stacking will help him with that?

Agrr I just typed out a whole detailed response and lost it!

Alright; can you send me a suspended stack photo, front rear and sides? As well as a stack photo weight bearing.

Have you felt his front legs a) from elbows up and b) from elbows down to feel if you feel an obvious curve of the bones?

How heavy is your boy- sorry meaning is he overweight? Is he barrel chested?

How much and what kind of exercise does he do?

At this point I think it would be ideal to either go to an osteo specialist or a vet that specializes in performance/sport dogs like Dr Chris Zink (she has a website) to get his structure evaluated.

Xrays might be usefull at this point if either of the above two experts recommend them.

In any case yes, muscular strengthening, lean and mean fighting weight, will all help out. There might be osteo type assists that might be recommended.

Also his bloodwork should be done, including looking for CA2 deficiency or malabsorption issues.

Swimming as you know I recommend for almost everything. Kiddy Pool bathtub all can work.

Treadmill work - Stacking - all great stuff

I think for you the key here is to understand if this is "structural" ie built in and born with - or if it is aresult of some muscular asymmetries, that might more easily be worked with.

Halter make sure it is not too tight and DOES not impede the free flow of front leg movement.

I am going to post this now before I lose it again. lol

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by gemy

LOL on the high heels. Just how far turned out are her toes? Also stand in front of a mirror with Uni and stack her up in the air, then look at how her leg stance is non weight bearing. That will give you a hint of structural versus muscular source for the turn out.

If she is greatly turned out like 10 degrees or more, then I would start re-training back inwards gradually.

Just tried it, and when I hold her up, yes her toes are still turned outward. To what degree I don't know, but it's easily noticeable, but it's not like omg what is wrong with your feet.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Just tried it, and when I hold her up, yes her toes are still turned outward. To what degree I don't know, but it's easily noticeable, but it's not like omg what is wrong with your feet.

Okay gal you know this you are mechanical et al with a bike shop. Now imagine a line going straight out from the second digit of her foot. Or visualize a line from the innermost corner of her lower chest going straight out. and then guess the angle from there.

Now a rough rule thumb if something is easily visible on free non weight bearing stack it is greater than 5 degrees. How much greater I don't know. Can you send a picture?

Oh just thought of another way. Place chalk marks or ribbons straight on a table, lead her into a stack without forcing any corrections, then you might be able to more clearly see the deviation.

[Nove]

Hi all sound like great advice .. I've just had my knee ligament reconstructed 4 months ago and it all make sense plus the dog glucosamine is wonderfully even when I forget taking mine for a few weeks my knee reminds me and as soon as I'm back on them three days later its so much better!!
Our Misha she a tiny 17 month old and only now found out about her luxating patella in both legs I did ask my vet she was skipping but they said it was nothing then several vets and normal check up later cuz we were travelling told me all about the patella issue
After a lot of research some vets say its best to have sear bury early and some say later but in the last six months she's now skipping on both no complaints or squeals but I'm worried that if left the bone erodes and if arthritis develops then surgery isn't gonna work as well..
I'd like to know more about the after care and how to cope with my baby after surgery ?
Can she walk or go peepi and poos... How long and painful is it going to take? How often is it not successful ? We live in Saudi Arabia but I've found a good surgeon in Bahrain ill have to drive over for 2 days have it done there cuz our local vet doesn't do it and does not recommend it done here (not very advanced) I had mine in the uk that's how I found out about misha's knees...