Feeding Fruit for Effective TarTar Control..?

[Jacksmom052709]

I don't know how you all feel about DentaStix, but I give one a day to Jack and Izzy and Jack has not had to have a dental yet - he will be 4 in May and my vet was amazed at how good his teeth were. I also supplement that with the Tropiclean Gel and just now started brushing (always had to fight with Jack but Izzy loves it) with CET brand pet toothpaste. I am interested also in other more natural ingredients as I am trying to go more "green" in every aspect of my life. (Wish us luck on that one)...

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I have spent a small fortune on 4 different water additives....not impressed with tarter removal. I have researched different doggie toothpastes with no huge success....maybe I am expecting too much from these products. I am thinking there HAS to be fruit that can be added to daily meals....like some pineapple, or papaya, or oranges....something that can just keep eating away at tartar, on a daily basis....breaking dsown stubborn tarter and preventing "laying down" of NEW tartar. Papaya has an enzyme that kills bacteria that stimulates the beginning of tartar build up. I have read clinical studies and double blind studies and I am now trying to firgue out if human toothpaste actually does do a better job of breaking down tartar, and then if it ACTUALLY is not good for dogs and why it is not good for dog....is it if the concume an entire tube, or is it actually toxic to dogs in small quantities. Rembrand toothpaste utilizes fruit enzymes, especially from the papaya....at least that was the article released by the "inventors" and patent holders of the product. I am wondering if it is toxic to dogs, and in what quantities...not willing to use any live subjects for testing!!!....just searching for valid research articles. I am wondering if I fed chopped up papaya to my dogs everyday, if it would break down the tartar that is already built up on their teeth, or if another acidic fruit would work better.....and would these fruits be safe for them to ingest, say 1/4 cup a day with no side effects. Any ideas, or input or suggestions or direction?? I woul;d much rather be able to feed them 1/4 cup of fruit a day, then spend the $485.00/per dog, for tooth cleaning....not to mention the risk of anesthesia! I am real big on "evidenced based research and outcomes"....if anyone has any info in this area, I hope you will share....

I have read numerous sources that say orange juice is terrible for teeth, as bad as soda. The acid damages the enamel, making the tooth more susceptible to decay. I started drinking orange juice and soda through a straw for this reason.

As for human toothpaste and dogs, there are so many ingredients that are inappropriate for both humans and dogs. Thankfully, we humans can spit out the toothpaste and rinse our mouths.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Interesting!! Do you see this first hand? Also, do you hear a lot of anecdotal proof from others using coco oil?

YorkieMom - I've tried some teeth stuff. Petzlife has a fairly good reputation...but I was inconsistent w/ using it, and so I can't attest to it. I know others have reported good results.

I also used Plaque Off, and that was easiest in terms of compliance bc you sprinkle it on their food. I think it does help, and it's a fair price bc the jar lasts a long time.

Some have had luck w/ Leba III.

I think raw bones are the best for working the teeth. My kiddos are 8, 6, and 3 - and have never had dentals yet. I use RMBs and also various chews - the RMBs maybe once a week; various chews every other day or so.Oh, have you tried CET chews?? Excellent! Read about the dental chemical component of CETs.

You cant get any better than that! RMB??? Raw Meat Bones??/What kind? and do you just get them from your grocery store or butcher? Some of these breeders have told me turkey necks are great for keeping the teeth clean. I am so scared of any kind of poultry bones...fear from hearing all my life NOT to feed a dog chicken bones! I think I will get some of these RMB's when you tell me what that is and where you get it....I have used Petzlife gel...guess I will try the Tropiclens as suggested....I will also try DentaStix, as I have not used them before..."navillusc", I am hoping you will continue with your research into papaya and the use and risk/benefits ratio, if any, of papain....I have for some reason also been drawn to research this more closely....
I do have the CET chews, and while they are good, they are still going to be needing dentals in a year......Teresa Ford, I couldnt agree with you more...there has to be a better way, a healthier way with less risks than going under anesthesia, for our babies....and breeders with more than a couple of dogs, have a very real financial drain to the tune of several thousand dollars a year, just in dental cleanings....there is something there we just have not stumbled on....

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

I am watching this thread with interest. I worry about my Yorkies teeth ...Surely there are things out there that would help keep their teeth healthy.
I would love some something that really worked.

Me, too.

Now, I am no expert, lol, but...my understanding, from looking into such things for many, many years, first for humans, is that the tarter and plaque buildup on teeth is at least partly because we eat mostly 'dead' food...food that has been 'processed' in such a way that it lacks the enzymes for its own digestion (it does not 'rot' in other words...which also gives it a looooong, profitable shelf life), and our bodies must manufacture the enzymes to digest it, if possible...which the body may not be able to do at that particular moment anyway...'food combinations' and pancreatic involvement, etc.

These foods "take from" the body rather than "give to" the body...think 'photons' and 'electrons' and 'free radicals' and etc...and since our saliva often lacks the 'right' stuff to break down these foods, some particles may remain on the teeth, and calcification, etc. occurs because our bodies must 'neutralize' the pH since (dare I say?) all processed, pre-packaged 'food' is 'acidic in the body'...then it is 'stored' for later disposal or maybe just 'sticks' to surfaces...as I understand it both in the mouth and the rest of the body.

Now, please understand that I am being seriously overly simplistic with this description...but hopefully you can see what I mean in 'general' terms.

Fresh organic fruits, vegetables, raw milk, etc., do (hopefully always) contain these important to digestion things...but sometimes, since it can be hard to get everything fresh, raw, and organic...or consume them that way...they may contribute to tarter and/or plaque as well, particularly with other factors involved. These are some reasons some people take "digestive enzymes" in pill, etc., form.

Oh, and I went looking into this because, among other reasons, dentistry is a relatively "new" thing in human kind, and while there have undoubtedly been tooth problems in our species...probably occasionally since the first human appeared on this planet...however that happened......but they didn't have fluoridated tooth pastes, fluoridated water, etc. back then (I don't think...lol). But, so many skulls 'we' (archeologists, etc.) find still have all or most of their teeth intact, making it look like they must have had/done something different than us. Also, since wild animals do not suffer the same ills as domesticated animals, I figured there was a connection...a similarity...between eating in the wild and natural world, and eating in the drive thru lane.

I am a weird thinker, huh...lmao...and I just wanted to know if possible!

[Buster Brown]

For me I love HealthyMouth and the CET Dental Chews. So far I have not had to do any dental cleaning on Buster other than the brushing. He will be four in July and his yearly visit to his Vet dentist (he retained his baby canines so we went to a Vet dentist for the surgery) will be in May. I really love the Healthymouth. Here is a great product comparison chart from Healthymouth https://www.healthymouth.com/Articles.asp?ID=301

[Ldyrev1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Interesting!! Do you see this first hand? Also, do you hear a lot of anecdotal proof from others using coco oil?

YorkieMom - I've tried some teeth stuff. Petzlife has a fairly good reputation...but I was inconsistent w/ using it, and so I can't attest to it. I know others have reported good results.

I also used Plaque Off, and that was easiest in terms of compliance bc you sprinkle it on their food. I think it does help, and it's a fair price bc the jar lasts a long time.

Some have had luck w/ Leba III.

I think raw bones are the best for working the teeth. My kiddos are 8, 6, and 3 - and have never had dentals yet. I use RMBs and also various chews - the RMBs maybe once a week; various chews every other day or so.

Oh, have you tried CET chews?? Excellent! Read about the dental chemical component of CETs.

Sorry Ann but I guess I'm a bit dumb...can you tell us what are "RMB's" and "CET Chews"? Thanks!!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

For me I love HealthyMouth and the CET Dental Chews. So far I have not had to do any dental cleaning on Buster other than the brushing. He will be four in July and his yearly visit to his Vet dentist (he retained his baby canines so we went to a Vet dentist for the surgery) will be in May. I really love the Healthymouth. Here is a great product comparison chart from Healthymouth https://www.healthymouth.com/Articles.asp?ID=301

Alright!!!!!!!!!! THATS what I am talkin about!!!!! I just KNEW there was fruit that could be utilized somehow to get rid of tartar and keep it from forming....and I keep going back to that papaya! I had tested several of these brands listed on the chart...thanks for THAT information...useless for what I was trying to get done on my babies teeth....so NOW! Do you get Healthy Mouth from your vet? You know alot of the time you can get products that they claim are strictly thru the vet, directly from the company....just wondering...

"HealthymouthTM dog::Essential Ingredients
Purified water, organic glycerine, organic pomegranate, organ yucca extract, zinc gluconate, organic blueberry, natural xanthan gum, organic papain (papaya extract), riboflavin (VitB2), ascorbic acid (VitC) organic clove extract, organic cinnamon extract, chlorophyll, sorbic acid (natural preservative from mountain berries). (cat::ESSENTIAL also contains taurine and mercury-free salmon oil as a source of omega 3). The dog and cat gel formulations also contain Sodium bicarbonate, sorbitol and extra glycerin to take the concentrate from a liquid to a gel form.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Me, too.

Now, I am no expert, lol, but...my understanding, from looking into such things for many, many years, first for humans, is that the tarter and plaque buildup on teeth is at least partly because we eat mostly 'dead' food...food that has been 'processed' in such a way that it lacks the enzymes for its own digestion (it does not 'rot' in other words...which also gives it a looooong, profitable shelf life), and our bodies must manufacture the enzymes to digest it, if possible...which the body may not be able to do at that particular moment anyway...'food combinations' and pancreatic involvement, etc.

These foods "take from" the body rather than "give to" the body...think 'photons' and 'electrons' and 'free radicals' and etc...and since our saliva often lacks the 'right' stuff to break down these foods, some particles may remain on the teeth, and calcification, etc. occurs because our bodies must 'neutralize' the pH since (dare I say?) all processed, pre-packaged 'food' is 'acidic in the body'...then it is 'stored' for later disposal or maybe just 'sticks' to surfaces...as I understand it both in the mouth and the rest of the body.

Now, please understand that I am being seriously overly simplistic with this description...but hopefully you can see what I mean in 'general' terms.

Fresh organic fruits, vegetables, raw milk, etc., do (hopefully always) contain these important to digestion things...but sometimes, since it can be hard to get everything fresh, raw, and organic...or consume them that way...they may contribute to tarter and/or plaque as well, particularly with other factors involved. These are some reasons some people take "digestive enzymes" in pill, etc., form.

Oh, and I went looking into this because, among other reasons, dentistry is a relatively "new" thing in human kind, and while there have undoubtedly been tooth problems in our species...probably occasionally since the first human appeared on this planet...however that happened......but they didn't have fluoridated tooth pastes, fluoridated water, etc. back then (I don't think...lol). But, so many skulls 'we' (archeologists, etc.) find still have all or most of their teeth intact, making it look like they must have had/done something different than us. Also, since wild animals do not suffer the same ills as domesticated animals, I figured there was a connection...a similarity...between eating in the wild and natural world, and eating in the drive thru lane.

I am a weird thinker, huh...lmao...and I just wanted to know if possible!

I love your research and digging and searching and finding....!!!! You know, as many of those million year old skulls that they dig up and you see them coming out of the ground, it was not until you mentioned it that I realized that indeed, MOST OF THEIR TEETH REALLY ARE INTACT!!!! I do want to add that I used to use the SoniCare electric tooth brush, and I had to stop because it kept loosening the caps on my teeth! So it occured to me to use it on my dogs and see if that plaque would eventually come off like my caps did! I have to admit, I am A HORRIBLE MOMMA AND I DID NOT KEEP UP THE TOOTH BRUSHING EVERY DAY!!!! TOOO MANY MOUTHS TO DO, NOT ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY!!! I had NO time left to do anything at all....so I am thinking when I retire, I will have the time to devote a sincere effort in getting these babies teeth in shape!

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Alright!!!!!!!!!! THATS what I am talkin about!!!!! I just KNEW there was fruit that could be utilized somehow to get rid of tartar and keep it from forming....and I keep going back to that papaya! I had tested several of these brands listed on the chart...thanks for THAT information...useless for what I was trying to get done on my babies teeth....so NOW! Do you get Healthy Mouth from your vet? You know alot of the time you can get products that they claim are strictly thru the vet, directly from the company....just wondering...

"HealthymouthTM dog::Essential Ingredients
Purified water, organic glycerine, organic pomegranate, organ yucca extract, zinc gluconate, organic blueberry, natural xanthan gum, organic papain (papaya extract), riboflavin (VitB2), ascorbic acid (VitC) organic clove extract, organic cinnamon extract, chlorophyll, sorbic acid (natural preservative from mountain berries). (cat::ESSENTIAL also contains taurine and mercury-free salmon oil as a source of omega 3). The dog and cat gel formulations also contain Sodium bicarbonate, sorbitol and extra glycerin to take the concentrate from a liquid to a gel form.

I first got it from the Vet Dentist but she is about a 30-40 minute drive away. I found it at Vet's closer to me but the markup was about equal to what I would pay to have it shipped to me from healthymouth so I do that now. I buy the super saver size 16 oz. I tried the 36 oz but it took us so long to get through it I prefer buying smaller/fresher. I bought a PABA free Gallon container and fill that up it and keep it in the fridge. Buster never balked at all with the taste or the light green color.
Call the clinic and ask their price what the local Vet (not mine) was asking for the 8oz is about what I paid for the 16 oz including shipping
https://www.healthymouth.com/v/vspfiles/vetfinder.htm

[Jacksmom052709]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Me, too.

Now, I am no expert, lol, but...my understanding, from looking into such things for many, many years, first for humans, is that the tarter and plaque buildup on teeth is at least partly because we eat mostly 'dead' food...food that has been 'processed' in such a way that it lacks the enzymes for its own digestion (it does not 'rot' in other words...which also gives it a looooong, profitable shelf life), and our bodies must manufacture the enzymes to digest it, if possible...which the body may not be able to do at that particular moment anyway...'food combinations' and pancreatic involvement, etc.

These foods "take from" the body rather than "give to" the body...think 'photons' and 'electrons' and 'free radicals' and etc...and since our saliva often lacks the 'right' stuff to break down these foods, some particles may remain on the teeth, and calcification, etc. occurs because our bodies must 'neutralize' the pH since (dare I say?) all processed, pre-packaged 'food' is 'acidic in the body'...then it is 'stored' for later disposal or maybe just 'sticks' to surfaces...as I understand it both in the mouth and the rest of the body.

Now, please understand that I am being seriously overly simplistic with this description...but hopefully you can see what I mean in 'general' terms.

Fresh organic fruits, vegetables, raw milk, etc., do (hopefully always) contain these important to digestion things...but sometimes, since it can be hard to get everything fresh, raw, and organic...or consume them that way...they may contribute to tarter and/or plaque as well, particularly with other factors involved. These are some reasons some people take "digestive enzymes" in pill, etc., form.

Oh, and I went looking into this because, among other reasons, dentistry is a relatively "new" thing in human kind, and while there have undoubtedly been tooth problems in our species...probably occasionally since the first human appeared on this planet...however that happened......but they didn't have fluoridated tooth pastes, fluoridated water, etc. back then (I don't think...lol). But, so many skulls 'we' (archeologists, etc.) find still have all or most of their teeth intact, making it look like they must have had/done something different than us. Also, since wild animals do not suffer the same ills as domesticated animals, I figured there was a connection...a similarity...between eating in the wild and natural world, and eating in the drive thru lane.

I am a weird thinker, huh...lmao...and I just wanted to know if possible!

I'm thinking the skulls that are found with the teeth still in is because they did eat a "raw" diet back then with no processed foods, no processed sugars, no sodas or crud that we eat now... hmm... maybe there is something to this going green/organic way of life.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ldyrev1

Sorry Ann but I guess I'm a bit dumb...can you tell us what are "RMB's" and "CET Chews"? Thanks!!

Ack, sorry. RMBs = Raw Meaty Bones. CET chews are the actual name/brand...here are the 2 different types, each containing a different kind of dental chemical:

Amazon.com: C.E.T. Enzymatic Oral Hygiene Chews,...
Amazon.com: C.E.T. HEXtra Premium Oral Hygiene...

That Healthy Mouth looks super interesting!

[pookybear]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Raw beef bones are great for keeping tartar at bay

The Royal Canine kibble the breeder gave me a week ago runs out tomorrow, Pooky will be 15 weeks tomorrow as well and he's going raw. He's already been chewing on a raw beef marrow bone all week and loves it. I've read so many testimonies and know 1st hand how raw bones keep tarter off of dog's teeth, we have 4 dogs, two working breeds and two toy breeds.

[Teresa Ford]

NOTE: Some prehistoric people had a much shorter life span. Mummies have been found missing, damaged,and abscessed teeth that involved facial bones. Some could have even the cause of death, once the infection went into the blood system.
Ancient people that lived in areas with sand had teeth that were often damaged by the constant sand they ate in their food.
Early Native American Indians that had a diet that was corn based suffered with tooth decay and early loss of teeth.
European people also lost teeth early in life. If you only lived to be 35 or 40 it was not uncommon to be nearly toothless.
Poor diet, little or no dental hygiene and no dentists to fix minor problems were major factors in early tooth loss.
About wild animals with dental problems. They too suffer from worn down teeth, missing teeth and decay if they live long enough. (some wild animals grow several sets of teeth like sharks.) Things get stuck between their teeth, teeth crack and chip.
I did research years ago for a dental brochure.

[gemy]

Turkey necks are cartilagenous not bones. And all my dogs love them. I usually buy one neck and have the butcher divide in three - that is for the large beasties. For Razzle divide in 6 pieces. I freeze the necks, and give them individually maybe twice a week.

Then a knuckle beef bone for the big ones a week or a Bison thigh bone. I have friend who buys me the bones from a Bison farm.

Now my caveat being some dogs can chew all day on a bone, and some like my Zoey loses interest in 20 minutes of chewing! Piffle

In any case pick up the discarded bones - don't leave around especially outside.

Raw food. When Zoey got sick I started cooking their diet because of her compromised immune system. I did notice an uptick in tartar build up. I really need to go back to just raw - I haven't yet for some unknown reason.

I also use healthy mouth - but Magic won't drink his water that has Healthy Mouth in it I tried different dilution rates etc. He does like Suzie's Tartar Liquid and it does a pretty good job.

The oral gels work fine if I am consistent with them; at least 3x per week plus all the other stuff

And Yorkie Mom1 I am with you on time! I'd rather be walking, training, and dematting my fur machine then brushing teeth!

I am watching this thread with interest

[lisaly]

I have done a lot of research and have decided to order Healthymouth. They have come out with an additive that has all of the ingredients in HealthyMouth with something added for joiny motility. I am trying to decide between the two of them. I love the fact that the clinical trials have been conducted by Dr. Jean Dodds.

A few years ago the vet techs recommended Leba III but Ashley was having problems with gas pockets in her stomach, and my vet was afraid that it would stimulate her saliva and cause more problems for her. We had been doing yearly dentals on her until he discovered that she had an enlarged heart at ten years old, and we only had dentals when they were absolutely necessary due to the anesthesia risk. My vet told me that I should give Ashley raw chicken wings and that I would never have a problem with her teeth. He said that chewing on the muscle would polish up her teeth. Although I trust my vet immensely, I just couldn't bring myself to give it to her.

The list of ingredients in HealthyMouth have a lot of fruit in it.

List of ingredients in HealthyNouth: Healthy Mouth | Dog, Cat, Horse

Papain: Papain has been of the best kept secrets for oral care and joint care, digestion and immune support. Papains are the enzymes extracted from papaya and where the most powerful health benefits of papaya are found. Papain provides potency, but is gentle to the system with its antioxidising and anti- inflammatory properties. For the mouth, the enzymes act as cleansing agents with its proteins building barriers on the buccal cavity. For the joints, the enzymes have been found to reduce inflammation associated with sprains, strains and arthritis. For the digestive system, papain acts as a soothing agent.

Yucca: Yucca acts as a saponin - a natural cleansing agent for the mouth. For joints, yucca is a treatment aid for arthritis and rheumatism, lessening swelling of the joints. For overall health, yucca boosts immune response.

Cinnamon: The benefits of cinnamon are multi-faceted; from its antioxidant properties and anti-microbial actions, which help stop the growth of bacteria in the mouth and act as a natural breath deodorize, to its demonstrated ability to provide arthritis relief.

Pomegranate: Pomegranate possesses anti-bacterial properties providing anti-plaque benefits. Chocked full of antioxidants, pomegranate is also used as a treatment aid to prevent cartilage deterioration. Its anti-inflammatory properties of shown to be beneficial for both the mouth and mobility.

Blueberry: Blueberry contains the highest amount of antioxidants and is #1 in Vitamin C, protecting the body against inflammation. Studies also have shown that blueberries help boost the immune system.

Clove: Clove, with its antimicrobial, analgesic and antiseptic properties is a treatment aid for sore gums, helps boost the immune system and protects against degenerative diseases like arthritis.

Chlorophyll: With its cleansing, detoxification and deodorizing properties, chlorophyll can help control germs and help prevent their growth in the mouth. Its anti-inflammatory properties can help boost the immune system function which can help lessen arthritis pain.

Vitamin C: Vitamin C is essential for the immune system and as an antioxidant, maintaining healthy teeth, gums and bones. It helps the body build collagen, an important protein used to make cartilage, tendons and ligaments and healthy gum tissue.

Vitamin B2: An important antioxidant and necessary for maintaining a healthy immune system often deficient in the body.