Change of Yorkshire Terrier Standards

[GuinnessStout]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I would LOVE to see a 20# Yorkie, try to go down a rat hole to do the job that breed was designed to do initially!!!!! You have to understand what a Yorkie is bred to do....the history behind the breed. Yorkshire Terriers are ratters. That is their job and the standard for a Yorkshire Terrier ensures that the breed is able to continue to do what it was designed to do! Again, the standard dictates what is acceptable in the conformation ring....if people threw out the breed standard, and started breeding willy nilly to get Yorkies of any size and color and personality and "look", there would absolutely be total irradication and extinction of the breed as it is was originally bred to be! The standard is the template which we go by, which responsible breeders try to nail with every litter they produce. We do miss and these adorable, lovable, precious babies are no less Yorkies, and they are equally accepted by AKC for registration as Yorkies, you just can not use them to exemplify what the breed is SUPPOSED to be looking like! The AKC recognizes any purebred Yorkie of any weight...you just can not SHOW and expect to win with a Yorkie that does not exemplify the breed standard! Kind of like a 60 year old woman, weighing in at 250#, competing in Miss America pagent. Yes, she is female, just as nice as she can be, even temperment, hard worker, great wife and mother, but she is not quite "the standard" expected in a Miss America contestant!

I do not my 12lb Yorkie could get his big head even in the rat hole much less the rest of him.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

I have a yorkie over 7lbs and personally, I wouldn't like to see the standard changed.
The intent is to keep them under 7lbs, but if you occasionally get one or two that are over, that's fine as they make good pets. But my concern would be that people would then think it's ok to breed these bigger yorkies and then size/weight could keep creeping up & up. If I wanted a big breed I would have bought a big breed dog. I wanted a lil dog, and while she's bigger than both the breeder & I thought she'd be, she's still a lil dog & she's perfect for me.

Both of mine are 'off standard' in at least one way...Mia is golden, which is not just a fault but a disqualification. But...both are wonderful pups, great friends, beautiful, perfect companions AND still little dogs.

I would not want to see the standard changed...although I do think a 'Standard Poodle' sized Yorkshire Terrier with full coat flowing to the floor would be GORGEOUS!!! With the Yorkitude, I don't think I'd be able, or want to try, to wrench a toy from its mouth, however...lol

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's the way I feel about it too, if people really want a bigger Yorkie, they are fairly easy to find, and you could always get a Silky, which is a few pounds heavy and very similar in features. I really wanted a small dog, I needed to be able to lift him easily for baths and I wanted him to fit in the kitchen sink, so the size they are now works out perfectly for me.

Now I know you are all about the standard but I think there are some misconceptions about the size of the larger yorkie. Chachi is easily picked up and I bathe him in the sink. They are still small. My Jewels is 8 lbs and I wouldnt want one smaller than her. She has trouble getting on the bed even because of her small size. It just seems like the breed is plagued by injuries and LP and maybe it wouldnt be the case if they were a more sturdy size

[gemy]

I only wish LP was rife in under 10 lb dogs, unfortunately most in the Toy group have a higher incidence of LP than ideal.

A standard Poodle Sized YT - God help me! With their temperament

But seriously, (I'd have to look up AKC again), but division of breeds by color, and by weight is not very easily approved (any-more) -- particularly color.

What if we are talking about Standard Changes I would love to see, is full health screenings by breed specificity prior to a CH being awarded You can earn all the points, but the final designation is not conferred unless the breed specific tests are done and posted on the agreed upon reputable health databases And that would create a tempest in a teapot!

I think rather than up the weight "standard" of upper limit of 7 lbs - is the encouragement of breeders to breed with in say a 4-8 lb range That being the bulk of their puppies adult weight is say low end 4 upper end 8lb Major faults for males less than 3.5 lbs or females for that matter. Faults for over 7 lbs but under 8 lbs.

Structure needs equal play and judgement to coat and especially to temperament. This in my mind is the Grand Triumvirate ...

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by MyDearSam

I cannot argue with your expertise. Sorry I spoke out of turn.

No need to apologize!! This is how we learn....and when you think you know it all, expertise or not, that is when you get boondoggled!! You ceretainly didnt speak out of turn....dont ever think that!!It is a learning situation here on this forum! We ALL learn!!

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by MyDearSam

I absolutely hate that the standard has been set to such a small size. It seems like the efforts to produce ever smaller dogs is going to result in the extinction of the breed.

I would love to see a standard of 10, 15, or even 20 pounds for Yorkies. The breed might have a chance of survival then, instead of being frail creatures ever in danger of illnesses and injuries who are thought of more as cute accessories than beloved companions.

I know what you are saying..but it is not the "breed standard" that is causing the tiny yorkies. That is a whole different issue all together!! imo

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

Now I know you are all about the standard but I think there are some misconceptions about the size of the larger yorkie. Chachi is easily picked up and I bathe him in the sink. They are still small. My Jewels is 8 lbs and I wouldnt want one smaller than her. She has trouble getting on the bed even because of her small size. It just seems like the breed is plagued by injuries and LP and maybe it wouldnt be the case if they were a more sturdy size

Not just for Yorkies, but for all breeds, UNLESS the breed is having trouble because of it's written standard, and this is true of about 5 breeds, thankfully not the Yorkie. I really don't think raising the weight limit will help us breed healthier Yorkies, we will still have those who breed before they even know if their breeding dogs have LP. I'm glad people aren't as obsessed here with the ultra-tiny Yorkie as they once were, but I know a lot of really great breeders complain, that if a dog is much over 6 pounds people aren't interested, no matter how beautiful the dog is. We need to educate that size is only one factor, but most puppy buyers seem obsessed with size and color, and don't seem to realize there are many factors that make up standard.

[Teresa Ford]

I think my ideas are more along the thinking of the poster Gemy. I think the standard is fine. Except, I do not think docked tails should still be required. Natural tails should be permitted.
I don't have a problem with creating new Yorkie groups and standards. AKC does this for Cocker Spaniels, and some other breeds. Example we could have a new group called Chocolate Yorkies. Their standard might require a weight of 5 to 9 pounds, pendant not prick ears and a brown nose. Parti Colored Yorkies standards might require white legs and a natural tail and weight under 16 pounds.
Parent Clubs create the standard. The standard is the ideal of a certain pure bred dog. Very few dogs meet their breed standard in every area. Their gait may be a little off, have the wrong top line or ear size or placement, too high to low, too big, too small. Deviation from the ideal is considered a fault. A fault does not make them stop being a pure bred dog. A serious fault may keep them from competing in bench shows.
Real changes in my opinion need to be made by parent clubs. One way to cut out bad breeders would be requirements about health. Example: to register an AKC litter, parents (both) must be DNA tested pure bred and certified free from diseases listed by the parent club. With Yorkies it would most likely include, Liver Shunt, LP (sliping knee caps) and Blue Born mutation gene. Sadly Dog breeding is always done to better the breed. It is more about cuteness than health.
I have five Yorkies ( three come from show parents and well known AKC breeders) one was a rescue, and one Craigs List rehome. None are close enough to the standard to compete in conformation, bench show. Three are wonderful Therapy dogs. And Gracie my rescue, is the love of my heart !

[MishyMish]

Originally Posted by MyDearSam

I absolutely hate that the standard has been set to such a small size. It seems like the efforts to produce ever smaller dogs is going to result in the extinction of the breed.

I would love to see a standard of 10, 15, or even 20 pounds for Yorkies. The breed might have a chance of survival then, instead of being frail creatures ever in danger of illnesses and injuries who are thought of more as cute accessories than beloved companions.

I agree with you.

[MyDearSam]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

I think my ideas are more along the thinking of the poster Gemy. I think the standard is fine. Except, I do not think docked tails should still be required. Natural tails should be permitted.

This I agree with wholeheartedly!

Real changes in my opinion need to be made by parent clubs. One way to cut out bad breeders would be requirements about health. Example: to register an AKC litter, parents (both) must be DNA tested pure bred and certified free from diseases listed by the parent club. With Yorkies it would most likely include, Liver Shunt, LP (slipping knee caps) and Blue Born mutation gene.

Absolutely!

Sadly Dog breeding is always done to better the breed. It is more about cuteness than health.

I'm not sure I understand this statement? I guess it depends on your definition of bettering the breed. To me, bettering the breed includes reducing the chances of illness and or chronic issues such as LP and liver shunts, as well as preserving the appearance.

One of my all time favorite movie quotes is:
"Just because it is doesn't mean it should be."

I don't believe in following anything blindly just because a group got together and said this is the way to be.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I would LOVE to see a 20# Yorkie, try to go down a rat hole to do the job that breed was designed to do initially!!!!! You have to understand what a Yorkie is bred to do....the history behind the breed. Yorkshire Terriers are ratters. That is their job and the standard for a Yorkshire Terrier ensures that the breed is able to continue to do what it was designed to do! Again, the standard dictates what is acceptable in the conformation ring....if people threw out the breed standard, and started breeding willy nilly to get Yorkies of any size and color and personality and "look", there would absolutely be total irradication and extinction of the breed as it is was originally bred to be! The standard is the template which we go by, which responsible breeders try to nail with every litter they produce. We do miss and these adorable, lovable, precious babies are no less Yorkies, and they are equally accepted by AKC for registration as Yorkies, you just can not use them to exemplify what the breed is SUPPOSED to be looking like! The AKC recognizes any purebred Yorkie of any weight...you just can not SHOW and expect to win with a Yorkie that does not exemplify the breed standard! Kind of like a 60 year old woman, weighing in at 250#, competing in Miss America pagent. Yes, she is female, just as nice as she can be, even temperment, hard worker, great wife and mother, but she is not quite "the standard" expected in a Miss America contestant!

Yorkies have been breed down they were a bit bigger when used as ratters. I can not imagine a 3 pounder with an actual rat lol

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's the way I feel about it too, if people really want a bigger Yorkie, they are fairly easy to find, and you could always get a Silky, which is a few pounds heavy and very similar in features. I really wanted a small dog, I needed to be able to lift him easily for baths and I wanted him to fit in the kitchen sink, so the size they are now works out perfectly for me.

Actually a bigger yorkie from a good breeder is very hard to find trust me I have looked. Silky's have a different attitude then yorkies.

[yorkiecrazy]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

It happens! I have had one 4#, and a sibling mature to 16#! Loving them both, but I missed the mark! the 16# looks like a typical Yorkie, has that effervescent personality of a Yorkie, is adorable and playful, great coloring developing black/gold, and devoted to his momma...me....but I couldnt put him in a showring and expect to win with him! Doesnt make him any less a Yorkie, or any less loved....just not what we want the Yorkie breed as a whole to develop into! GOD BLESS THE BREED STANDARD! KEEP IT TIGHT!!!

[OwnedByJezebel]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Yorkies have been breed down they were a bit bigger when used as ratters. I can not imagine a 3 pounder with an actual rat lol

Yes, and plenty of the larger* breeds of terrier (JRT, Cairn, Scotty, Norfolk, etc) compete in Earthdog trials and have no trouble going to ground and maneuvering in the tunnels to go after those rats in the cage at the end of the tunnel.

ETA: By "larger," I mean larger than the standard Yorkie.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by OwnedByJezebel

Yes, and plenty of the larger* breeds of terrier (JRT, Cairn, Scotty, Norfolk, etc) compete in Earthdog trials and have no trouble going to ground and maneuvering in the tunnels to go after those rats in the cage at the end of the tunnel.

ETA: By "larger," I mean larger than the standard Yorkie.

Even looking at my 16 pounder and the small spaces she can get in I am sure she could rat.