I don't get it - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Kenneth62 · 01-24-2013, 04:19 AM

Thanks for all the thoughts. My boy has been neutered and was very difficult to house break(much more then my first one) I had thought about the possibility of UTI about a 1 1/2 months ago and took him to a Vet. They catherized him and the pee was almost water and they said that he was over drinking and I told them that I was only putting water in his bowl about three times a day because I knew he drank a lot of water. They said that he might be over drinking because he did not know when he would get his next water and suggested that I not restrict his water and then suggested that I pad train him in the winter and wait till summer to teach him to go outside.
They also told me it was possible that he had a very rare condition called Diabetis Insipitus and gave me a syringe to collect another pee specimine so that they could see if he concentrated his pee at times.
I have been unable to collect a specimen because he stopped peeing in his cage after that. I also spoke with a trainer at pet smart and he suggested that I do continue to restrict the amount of water available especially during the evening. I have tried to compromize. I read how much water he should normally drink in a day and he was drinking way more then that so I now try to keep water in his bowl but only the bottom of it to keep him from overdrinking and don't refill later in the evening.
I also decided to not go with suggestion of pad training as I had put so much effort in getting him to go outside and do not want to start over next summer. Also I live in Tennessee and the winters in general are not that bad.
I take him out on a leash so he doesn't roam but I suspect at times he is going out as something else to do in addition to playing with his toys. I don't let him have more then about 5min to do his thing and promting him to go helps now.
I don't think that he has a UTI or he would have problems holding his pee when he is caged overnight and like I said up to about 5 hours in the middle of the day when I am out.
Like I said I am tickled that he seems to be pretty much house broke if I take him out with the freqency that he requests it but if I don't or there is a few minutes delay there he goes peeing.
The idea of putting a belly band on him when he comes in after several freqent trips outside and telling him no for awhile may be the answer for a little break for me so I may try that. Are they something that he could take off with his teeth very easily?
Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.

Marhcarter · 01-24-2013, 04:45 AM

Huey hates to be dressed, but he doesnt seem to even notice the belly band. As for your pup potentially having diabetes insipidus, I would have further testing done. If he does have DI, restricting his H2O could cause him to become dangerously dehydrated because in DI, you can't concentrate urine. It is a deficiency in ADH (antidiuretic hormone). It can be caused by a neurologic insult like a closed head injury or problem with the pituitary gland. There are many treatments available. I would definitely look into this further, if for nothing else than peace of mind. Wikipedia actually has a good article. I am a people nurse, not a vet tech, but many disorders are the same across the species. Good luck and keep us updated.

of course, if it were DI, I don't think he would be able to hold it 5 hours during the day...

Farleys · 01-24-2013, 06:15 AM

You should never ever restrict a puppies acess to water. They drink when tey are thirsty and if they continuously overdrink its for a reason. I would for sure take back for more testing! And never ever restrict water intake. A dog or puppy takes many small drinks all day. 3 times a day is not enough. Im sorry but it makes me mad that a trainer would even suggest such a thing.
The only time i have ever heard this is right before bed to take water away but never ever to a puppy.
And i would listen to a veterinarian before any trainer.
I would be very concerned with getting a u/a done.
And the fact that he doesnt do it while in a kennel may simply be because he refuses to pee where he sleeps.
And when he is out he can go whenever needed.
I wouldnt connect the two.

Teresa Ford · 01-24-2013, 09:52 AM

We don't bell ring train.I think of it as the Yorkies training us to come running. Not good for most Yorkies, because they can get really bossy.I want to go out and sniff, I see a butterfly I want to chase, and so on. We have set times to potty (right now I have 7 Yorkies my five and two fosters) We do have a doggy door on the screen porch but they only have use of that when we let them on the screen porch. and they can go into a covered potty yard. My sister rings a hand held bell to call her poodles to the door to go out and Rings it to have them come in and get treats. LOL

concretegurl · 01-24-2013, 10:08 AM

Restriction of water can be hazardous!!!

Have you tried a water bottle instead of bowl?

Dog water bottles are great but even a giant rodent bottle will work, add a couple drops of Apple Cider Vinegar (with mothers)
weekly.

Are far as getting a urine sample with a male, use a baking sheet put a grocery store or postal box in it...urine catch.

Ir othee desirable marking item...boxes are the big ones here.

yorkietalkjilly · 01-24-2013, 11:12 AM

Most of us go through this in the early training of dogs asking to go out when it's fairly obvious they probably don't really need to and they do stop it as they mature. When I first trained my dog I arbitrarily took him out every 30 minutes all day and evening for about the first two weeks to strongly imprint him with the idea of going outside over inside and help him learn that even if he got the urge to go, in just a short time we'd be going out. Rest of the time I just watched him and took him out when he showed the usual signs or after ANY intense situation or any sustained activity, even a nap. When I couldn't watch him or keep him with me, I crated him to prevent accidents. He was 9 mos. old when I got him and had only used a crate to eliminate his whole life. By the time he was 21 mos. or so, he was no longer crated but did have the occasional accident a while longer, oddly enough all in once place - his bed. Since then, he has been totally clean in the house, except for very pretty, sunny days, just asks to go out when he really needs to go and will, sadly, hold it for hours if I'm detained when away from the house, even though I leave potty pads down for him. You don't need bells or things to train dogs to tell you they need to go outside and all of them to one extent or the other do fib a bit to go outside when they are young. You could take up the bell and ignore what you suspect are pleadings to go out for other things than elimination to avoid some of the novelty of the bell ringing = outside action. A dog will obviously "tell" you when they need to potty and each is a little different in his tell but quickly learned as you observe them. I hope things smooth out for the two of you before too long.

gracielove · 01-24-2013, 12:00 PM

If you are gone for several hours a day try taking him for a 15 minute walk when you get home. If you ever noticed a dog on a walk will pee several times while they are going along. It takes a while to empty out the body that has been sitting collecting fluid for a few hours. A dog's body doesn't empty out quickly like a human does. He has energy that is pent up as well so a good walk will help use up some of that energy, too. A young dog has tons energy. They do need a way to burn it up. The body movement also get the other organs working and flowing. Exercise is really important to get everything working right.

Jacksmom052709 · 01-24-2013, 12:09 PM

I would be way concerned about the diabetes insipitus and either find a way to collect a urine sample or take him to the vet and have them "hold" him there until they can get a good sample. I would never restrict water from any of my animals - we have three cats and two Yorkies and they have access to 6 different water bowls throughout out house, filled fresh daily. Like the OP said, if he is drinking that much water, there is a reason for it. I would definitely look further for additional medical conditions.

lynzy420 · 01-24-2013, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacksmom052709

I would be way concerned about the diabetes insipitus and either find a way to collect a urine sample or take him to the vet and have them "hold" him there until they can get a good sample. I would never restrict water from any of my animals - we have three cats and two Yorkies and they have access to 6 different water bowls throughout out house, filled fresh daily. Like the OP said, if he is drinking that much water, there is a reason for it. I would definitely look further for additional medical conditions.

Kenneth62 · 01-25-2013, 03:09 AM

Thanks for the suggestion. I previously was restricting the amount out in the bowl and one time but not neccessarily the amount as I checked it repeatedly during the day and added more water when it was empty. I mainly did this to keep him from gulping water and give him a chance to see if he was still thirsty or not.
I think that he is fairly housebroke so will go ahead and start filling the bowl and see if he is still overdrinking.
If he continues to drink a lot of water I will try to put a cake pan down and collect a first pee in the morning when it should be more concentrated if everything is working the way that it should be. I am doubting that it is diabetes insipitus since he is holding it when he has to ie. during the night in his cage and when I am gone for 5 hours but it is worth checking if he continues to wet inside after I have just taken him out.
May also try the belly bands for a little while.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Thanks

Farleys · 01-25-2013, 05:45 AM

From experience in my dog with a uti, it doesnt matter if they can hold it for 5 hrs or all night.
My dog would NEVER pee in the house!! But was drinking more than normal and when outside would urinate multiple times. And wanted outside soooo often. He had a uti!
IF it is a uti and you wait it can become life threathening. I have seen dogs and cats die because they were left with a uti.
If your dr said to bring in a sample i would have brought in a sample that day. Also you said you walk him on a leash, so it would be very very simple to catch a sample.

Farleys · 01-25-2013, 05:50 AM

[QUOTE=Kenneth62; I read how much water he should normally drink in a day and he was drinking way more then that so I now try to keep water in his bowl but only the bottom of it to keep him from overdrinking and don't refill later in the evening.
[/QUOTE]

This is restricitng.. And not healthy. You can not go by what a book or internet says your dog should drink. Each and every dog is different.

Kenneth62 · 01-25-2013, 07:10 AM

Again my dog does not have a UTI. I had a concern about that being a possibility and took him to a Vet a little over a month ago. They catherized him and his urine was like water from overdrinking.
I was told that there was a remote possibility of a condition called Diabetes Insipidus in which the pituitary gland does not put out proper anti diuretic hormone and thus is unable to retain water and concentrate it and drinks more water as a result. I understand that lack of water can cause dehydration no matter what the cause and since I am retired and with my dog most of the time keep a close watch on his water bowl and add water when empty. I simply don't fill it full. Since I have been doing this it has stopped him from gulping water as much. The vet wanted to see if my dog was able to concentrate his urine at times and gave me a syringe to collect some. The problem was that my dog was potty training and it was impossible to collect a specimen as I never knew where or when he was going to pee.
What I was saying previously is if he has this condition probably the best opportunity to collect specimen and see if he is able to concentrate urine would be in the morning after he has woke up from a nights sleep when you would expect the pee to be more concentrated.

My dog is not getting dehydrated. He is very active, plays, wags his tail and is happy. I keep an eye on the moisture in his mouth. I have a medical background and understand that he needs to be allow to satisfy his thirst.
Although I don't think that he has Diabetes Insipidus it is worth ruling that out if I can collect a pee specimen. I didn't do it this morning as we got bad ice storm today and I was focused on just getting him outside without falling on the ice and cracking my skull but I plan on doing this as I don't think that he should be requesting to go outside so frequently at this stage and then peeing inside shortly after coming in if I don't take him back out when he requests it every time.
I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions though. I'll try to let everyone know after I get a pee specimen what the Vet says.

gracielove · 01-25-2013, 10:27 AM

Dog's don't "over drink" they drink because they are thirsty. The urine should be clear if they are drinking enough. Concentrated urine would indicate the dogs is not drinking enough. Water is needed to keep the body hydrated and to help with the elimination of toxins. You might also want to check the ingredient list of the food you are feeding. Certain ingredients can cause increased thirst. Diabetes can also increase thirst. If the dog has to go out frequently there is something causing the problem that needs to have further investigation.

concretegurl · 01-25-2013, 10:32 AM

A grains allergie can be indicated by both itching and excessive thirst-checking food ingredients is a good idea.

01-24-2013, 04:45 AM	#17
Marhcarter ♡Huey's Human♡ Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ringgold, Ga Posts: 3,333	Huey hates to be dressed, but he doesnt seem to even notice the belly band. As for your pup potentially having diabetes insipidus, I would have further testing done. If he does have DI, restricting his H2O could cause him to become dangerously dehydrated because in DI, you can't concentrate urine. It is a deficiency in ADH (antidiuretic hormone). It can be caused by a neurologic insult like a closed head injury or problem with the pituitary gland. There are many treatments available. I would definitely look into this further, if for nothing else than peace of mind. Wikipedia actually has a good article. I am a people nurse, not a vet tech, but many disorders are the same across the species. Good luck and keep us updated. of course, if it were DI, I don't think he would be able to hold it 5 hours during the day... __________________ Huey's mom, Marilyn :When a day starts & ends with puppy kisses, I can handle anything that comes in between! Last edited by Marhcarter; 01-24-2013 at 04:47 AM.

01-24-2013, 09:52 AM	#19
Teresa Ford Therapy Yorkies Work Donating Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Central, Florida Posts: 3,863	We don't bell ring train.I think of it as the Yorkies training us to come running. Not good for most Yorkies, because they can get really bossy.I want to go out and sniff, I see a butterfly I want to chase, and so on. We have set times to potty (right now I have 7 Yorkies my five and two fosters) We do have a doggy door on the screen porch but they only have use of that when we let them on the screen porch. and they can go into a covered potty yard. My sister rings a hand held bell to call her poodles to the door to go out and Rings it to have them come in and get treats. LOL __________________ Teresa & Rubin, Gracie, Abba, Ginny Joy and Julia Rose Act like a dog, be kind, forgiving, and loyal.

01-24-2013, 10:08 AM	#20
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	Restriction of water can be hazardous!!! Have you tried a water bottle instead of bowl? Dog water bottles are great but even a giant rodent bottle will work, add a couple drops of Apple Cider Vinegar (with mothers) weekly. Are far as getting a urine sample with a male, use a baking sheet put a grocery store or postal box in it...urine catch. Ir othee desirable marking item...boxes are the big ones here. __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!

01-24-2013, 11:12 AM	#21
yorkietalkjilly ♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas Posts: 22,140	Most of us go through this in the early training of dogs asking to go out when it's fairly obvious they probably don't really need to and they do stop it as they mature. When I first trained my dog I arbitrarily took him out every 30 minutes all day and evening for about the first two weeks to strongly imprint him with the idea of going outside over inside and help him learn that even if he got the urge to go, in just a short time we'd be going out. Rest of the time I just watched him and took him out when he showed the usual signs or after ANY intense situation or any sustained activity, even a nap. When I couldn't watch him or keep him with me, I crated him to prevent accidents. He was 9 mos. old when I got him and had only used a crate to eliminate his whole life. By the time he was 21 mos. or so, he was no longer crated but did have the occasional accident a while longer, oddly enough all in once place - his bed. Since then, he has been totally clean in the house, except for very pretty, sunny days, just asks to go out when he really needs to go and will, sadly, hold it for hours if I'm detained when away from the house, even though I leave potty pads down for him. You don't need bells or things to train dogs to tell you they need to go outside and all of them to one extent or the other do fib a bit to go outside when they are young. You could take up the bell and ignore what you suspect are pleadings to go out for other things than elimination to avoid some of the novelty of the bell ringing = outside action. A dog will obviously "tell" you when they need to potty and each is a little different in his tell but quickly learned as you observe them. I hope things smooth out for the two of you before too long. __________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis

01-24-2013, 12:09 PM	#23
Jacksmom052709 Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,044	I would be way concerned about the diabetes insipitus and either find a way to collect a urine sample or take him to the vet and have them "hold" him there until they can get a good sample. I would never restrict water from any of my animals - we have three cats and two Yorkies and they have access to 6 different water bowls throughout out house, filled fresh daily. Like the OP said, if he is drinking that much water, there is a reason for it. I would definitely look further for additional medical conditions. __________________ ~Lori ~ Mom to fur babies Jack, Izzy & Jada & their kitty siblings, Mr. Poops, Milo, Pearl & barn kitty Nanny.

01-24-2013, 04:19 AM	#16
Kenneth62 Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Knoxville,Tn,USA Posts: 20	Thanks for all the thoughts. My boy has been neutered and was very difficult to house break(much more then my first one) I had thought about the possibility of UTI about a 1 1/2 months ago and took him to a Vet. They catherized him and the pee was almost water and they said that he was over drinking and I told them that I was only putting water in his bowl about three times a day because I knew he drank a lot of water. They said that he might be over drinking because he did not know when he would get his next water and suggested that I not restrict his water and then suggested that I pad train him in the winter and wait till summer to teach him to go outside. They also told me it was possible that he had a very rare condition called Diabetis Insipitus and gave me a syringe to collect another pee specimine so that they could see if he concentrated his pee at times. I have been unable to collect a specimen because he stopped peeing in his cage after that. I also spoke with a trainer at pet smart and he suggested that I do continue to restrict the amount of water available especially during the evening. I have tried to compromize. I read how much water he should normally drink in a day and he was drinking way more then that so I now try to keep water in his bowl but only the bottom of it to keep him from overdrinking and don't refill later in the evening. I also decided to not go with suggestion of pad training as I had put so much effort in getting him to go outside and do not want to start over next summer. Also I live in Tennessee and the winters in general are not that bad. I take him out on a leash so he doesn't roam but I suspect at times he is going out as something else to do in addition to playing with his toys. I don't let him have more then about 5min to do his thing and promting him to go helps now. I don't think that he has a UTI or he would have problems holding his pee when he is caged overnight and like I said up to about 5 hours in the middle of the day when I am out. Like I said I am tickled that he seems to be pretty much house broke if I take him out with the freqency that he requests it but if I don't or there is a few minutes delay there he goes peeing. The idea of putting a belly band on him when he comes in after several freqent trips outside and telling him no for awhile may be the answer for a little break for me so I may try that. Are they something that he could take off with his teeth very easily? Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.

01-24-2013, 06:15 AM	#18
Farleys No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 551	You should never ever restrict a puppies acess to water. They drink when tey are thirsty and if they continuously overdrink its for a reason. I would for sure take back for more testing! And never ever restrict water intake. A dog or puppy takes many small drinks all day. 3 times a day is not enough. Im sorry but it makes me mad that a trainer would even suggest such a thing. The only time i have ever heard this is right before bed to take water away but never ever to a puppy. And i would listen to a veterinarian before any trainer. I would be very concerned with getting a u/a done. And the fact that he doesnt do it while in a kennel may simply be because he refuses to pee where he sleeps. And when he is out he can go whenever needed. I wouldnt connect the two.

01-24-2013, 12:00 PM	#22
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	If you are gone for several hours a day try taking him for a 15 minute walk when you get home. If you ever noticed a dog on a walk will pee several times while they are going along. It takes a while to empty out the body that has been sitting collecting fluid for a few hours. A dog's body doesn't empty out quickly like a human does. He has energy that is pent up as well so a good walk will help use up some of that energy, too. A young dog has tons energy. They do need a way to burn it up. The body movement also get the other organs working and flowing. Exercise is really important to get everything working right.

01-25-2013, 03:09 AM	#25
Kenneth62 Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Knoxville,Tn,USA Posts: 20	Thanks for the suggestion. I previously was restricting the amount out in the bowl and one time but not neccessarily the amount as I checked it repeatedly during the day and added more water when it was empty. I mainly did this to keep him from gulping water and give him a chance to see if he was still thirsty or not. I think that he is fairly housebroke so will go ahead and start filling the bowl and see if he is still overdrinking. If he continues to drink a lot of water I will try to put a cake pan down and collect a first pee in the morning when it should be more concentrated if everything is working the way that it should be. I am doubting that it is diabetes insipitus since he is holding it when he has to ie. during the night in his cage and when I am gone for 5 hours but it is worth checking if he continues to wet inside after I have just taken him out. May also try the belly bands for a little while. Thanks for all the suggestions. Thanks

01-25-2013, 05:45 AM	#26
Farleys No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 551	From experience in my dog with a uti, it doesnt matter if they can hold it for 5 hrs or all night. My dog would NEVER pee in the house!! But was drinking more than normal and when outside would urinate multiple times. And wanted outside soooo often. He had a uti! IF it is a uti and you wait it can become life threathening. I have seen dogs and cats die because they were left with a uti. If your dr said to bring in a sample i would have brought in a sample that day. Also you said you walk him on a leash, so it would be very very simple to catch a sample.

01-25-2013, 05:50 AM	#27
Farleys No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 551	[QUOTE=Kenneth62; I read how much water he should normally drink in a day and he was drinking way more then that so I now try to keep water in his bowl but only the bottom of it to keep him from overdrinking and don't refill later in the evening. [/QUOTE] This is restricitng.. And not healthy. You can not go by what a book or internet says your dog should drink. Each and every dog is different.

01-25-2013, 07:10 AM	#28
Kenneth62 Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Knoxville,Tn,USA Posts: 20	Again my dog does not have a UTI. I had a concern about that being a possibility and took him to a Vet a little over a month ago. They catherized him and his urine was like water from overdrinking. I was told that there was a remote possibility of a condition called Diabetes Insipidus in which the pituitary gland does not put out proper anti diuretic hormone and thus is unable to retain water and concentrate it and drinks more water as a result. I understand that lack of water can cause dehydration no matter what the cause and since I am retired and with my dog most of the time keep a close watch on his water bowl and add water when empty. I simply don't fill it full. Since I have been doing this it has stopped him from gulping water as much. The vet wanted to see if my dog was able to concentrate his urine at times and gave me a syringe to collect some. The problem was that my dog was potty training and it was impossible to collect a specimen as I never knew where or when he was going to pee. What I was saying previously is if he has this condition probably the best opportunity to collect specimen and see if he is able to concentrate urine would be in the morning after he has woke up from a nights sleep when you would expect the pee to be more concentrated. My dog is not getting dehydrated. He is very active, plays, wags his tail and is happy. I keep an eye on the moisture in his mouth. I have a medical background and understand that he needs to be allow to satisfy his thirst. Although I don't think that he has Diabetes Insipidus it is worth ruling that out if I can collect a pee specimen. I didn't do it this morning as we got bad ice storm today and I was focused on just getting him outside without falling on the ice and cracking my skull but I plan on doing this as I don't think that he should be requesting to go outside so frequently at this stage and then peeing inside shortly after coming in if I don't take him back out when he requests it every time. I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions though. I'll try to let everyone know after I get a pee specimen what the Vet says.

01-25-2013, 10:27 AM	#29
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	Dog's don't "over drink" they drink because they are thirsty. The urine should be clear if they are drinking enough. Concentrated urine would indicate the dogs is not drinking enough. Water is needed to keep the body hydrated and to help with the elimination of toxins. You might also want to check the ingredient list of the food you are feeding. Certain ingredients can cause increased thirst. Diabetes can also increase thirst. If the dog has to go out frequently there is something causing the problem that needs to have further investigation.

01-25-2013, 10:32 AM	#30
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	A grains allergie can be indicated by both itching and excessive thirst-checking food ingredients is a good idea. __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!