b.t.w. It goes without saying that Carmen is a valued YT member, her advice and input and tenacity on and off the boards with "breeders" in need, is stand up, stand out incredible. Her dedication is what I wish all breeders were made of and most of the breeders here are equally as valued. I can't tell you how many times I have pm'd Carmen and others to help someone, regardless of the situation.

Carmen gives and gives...I don't blame her for taking a break, she has done it in the past, I can't imagine giving and giving and giving like she does and not burning out, honestly Carmen everyone here cares about you and I am in constant awe at you and all the breeders here, I just wish we could make you see how important you are to this community, we all love you!

As with any topic or school of thought their are many, many, many opinions about this...in a perfect world only perfectly healthy AND HAPPY DOGS would be here! Don't ever be afraid to add your voice. Just be open to others disagreement.

We all want whats for the best for the pups, we all just have a different way of wanting that to happen!

That is a Question I wonder about all the time, my inlaws have always had westies, at this point every one they have gotten from good breeders have had terrible allergies, something I hear is common in that breed. Now they have a westie mix, the dog is doing great no allergies so far.

This whole concept and fighting over the "betterment" of the breed gets me, well I guess if you are going for a show dog that is important, but what if someone does not have $1800 to shell out for a dog, and they want a cute pet. what if all this betterment leads to breeds with common problems within that breed. So if you want a healthy puppy not a show dog and we know people do why is is such a crime for a maltese and a yorkie to mate, after all they are both canines. Blacks and Whites in the human race do it and even without genetic testing. So why can't canines. When Lola's Momma and Daddy mated who were pom and yorkie I think they made a pretty darn good looking dog with a great personality that most of my friends would take or a clone in a heartbeat. If you are concerned and fighting only for the health of the dogs that is great, but sometimes some of you come off like such yorkie snobs, like the only possible reason to breed is to get a better looking show yorkie, for me breeding to get a healthy dog or a pet that is not neurotic is more important, regardless if they are one breed or a mix of several.

Congratulations to those that try so hard at it, another newbie has been kicked to the curb and most likely shall not return.

With a mixed breed you never know what your going to get with pure breeds at least you know what your going to get. I personally have never met a breeder who breeds mixes and does everything else right and calling them a "designer breed" and jacking up the price is not doing everything right. I have seen "designer breed" dogs go for much more then lots of people have payed for there yorkies. Not every dog bred by good breeders is a show dog or show quality and most get sold as pets. But even in cross breeding you would not breed a mix with a full bred. I may come off as sounding stuck up but there have been 5 dogs in my life growing up and all were mixes and the first one was the best dog ever and I credit her for saving my life and being there when no one else was. I have absolutely nothing wrong with mixed breed dogs and I do not see mutt as some terrible derogatory word. I am sure many will credit me with running this member off but I apologized and that makes me in a better place then some and at least I have the ability to see when I have been a little to rough.

So when you say with a mix you never know what you are going to get, do you you mean looks wise? If so like I said some people are not looking for the perfect purebred specimen of a yorkie or another breed. If your statement with a purebred you know what you are going to get is true. I wonder then why there are so many threads asking if their dog is all yorkie or why there are so many members like yourself with non standard yorkies. Personally if I could not afford to buy from a show breeder I would prefer a mix over taking the chance of getting a non standard yorkie.

You seem to have so much knowledge of breeders, how many do you actually know. Just because you know of breeders via their websites or fancy little store fronts that sell for high prices does not mean that everyone does. I bought Lola for $450.00 and anyone I know that has a mix got them as cheap or free from a friend, yes I have seen some of those websites where they sell yorkies and so called designer breeds for an arm and a leg, but just because I have seen that does not mean I would assume that ALL people selling mixes were selling that way. Since you have no trouble with mutt or mixes if someone wanted one and did not feel comfortable taking on a rescue how would you purpose they go about getting one.

Vickie

There are also pure breed dogs being sold on Craigslist, not just mix breed dogs.

I have read many post on this thread and I just want to say, that I think some of the comments are very rude, I know that everyone has the right to their opinion, but sometimes it is better not to say anything at all...

I must say that I feel very sorry for the poster that started the thread... Nice way to welcome a newbie to the board... :(

I keep on thinking of this phrase betterment of the breed. While I agree that is the ideal to strive for, it seems to be happening less and less. When I went to get a new dog about a year and a half ago I was horrified at how many awful down right ugly representations of the yorkie breed there are out there. Most were AKC but I would be embarrassed to walk them and be asked, "what kind of dog do you have" because so many looked nothing like the breed I fell in love with 25 years ago. My last three yorkies were from show breeders and the last one cost $1,850.00 7 years ago. Even though I could well afford to pay that or more I decided never again would I spend that much on a dog. I first looked into breed specific rescues in my area but without even meeting me I was turned me down for not having a fence. I checked off and on with a few of the shelters that I have done some volunteer work with and none had any yorkies or yorkie mixes that were fairly young to choose from. Not wanting to spend 2 grand and not wanting to wait two years for a high ender breeder like Taylor thinks is so great to "select" me as worthy I bought the old fashioned way from a someone that advertised in the paper and I purposely looked for a mix because I wanted some of the temperament that yorkies are known for to be tempered down. I actually thought I would look for a morkie, and then I saw Lola's picture. I still laugh that I bought her because Poms can be high strung and snippy much like the traits I was hoping to avoid, but I did and so far so good. I have friends that buy golden doodles or yorkie poo's for the same reason and so that is the reason they are bred, because people want them. Thankfully there is NO standard to worry about except the hope that you wind up with a healthy dog, as many of you know even buying from breeders you consider good does not guarantee a long life. I do not support pet stores or puppy mill but I am glad that small home breeders that have a litter or two exist, because Lola probably came from someone like the OP, and I am sorry that she was chased away by people who know nothing about her or the health of her adult dogs. If and when I have to replace Lola I would not hesitate to go the same route again, and I am lucky that buyers in America and the free world are able to make a choice between the type of breeder that works best for them.

I mean temperaments, coat, size everything. There are massive amounts of yorkies being breed by bad breeds and that is where most of the non standard yorkies come from mine including I have said many times I did not know about brokers and such and that is where mine came from. If you look at the throw backs that good breeders have they still look 100% like a good example of the yorkie just a bit bigger. The people who say is this a yorkie have generally gotten there yorkie from a bad breeder. Not all good breeders are show breeders ie Carmen is not a show breeder but she is a good breeder who does things right. If you are going to breed ANY dog mix pure breed what ever it will be you should do genetic testing, a regular health checkup to make sure the dog is free of LP and such, you should also know some lines from your dog to make sure there are certain things not in there lines, you should know what your doing and not have to ask strangers for advise, you need to have a mentor and you certainly need to make sure you have money set aside for c-sections, other emergency care, and for care of the puppies. You are set out to think I am a terrible stuck up snob against all non full bred breeding and that is not it per say I am very much against breeding wrong and not doing the things you should do to make sure your not bringing sick puppies into this world that are going to suffer and or have to be put down. I online or personally have never met ANYONE who has gotten a mixed breed dog that the breeder did all the things a good breeder would do. The only cases I have come across with mix breed breeders is it was an accident, they just decided to try it and put to dogs together, they just wanted there dog to have puppies, or they are one of those puppy mill breeders breeding "designer breeds". I have said before I would love to meet a mix breed breeder who does it right I am very open to that.

Yes but either educating people to be better breeders and what they should do can get us closer to a perfect world or at least one where pups are not being born with terrible problems, going home to early and then dying because they where to young to go and where dogs are just money makers instead of living things that feel pain and love. We can make a difference and no one can say they are against puppy mills, back yard breeds and bad breeding if you just set there and never say anything.

You either are not listening to me or not caring what I have to say. I never said a high end breeder or what ever. I said ANY BREEDER who cares about dogs and the puppies they are bring into this world would do it right by genetic testing and everything else I mentioned that doesn't necessarily make a high end breeder it makes a good breeder who wants to make sure they are bringing healthy pups into this world whether they are mixes or not.

What is genetic testing and how much does it cost? What exactly is tested for and what does it prove?

What is genetic testing and how much does it cost? What exactly is tested for and what does it prove?

Just for the record...I love my "mutt". :animal36

My mother always said to me, "It's not what you say but how you say it". I have always found this to be true. People are much more willing to listen when you say things in a nice way. Just my two cents :)

Wow.. Look at this thread- too bad it wasn't 5 pages of Welcomes and helpful advice!

OP- Welcome and I wish you luck on your girls delivery, I hope all the babies are healthy as well as Momma! Hopefully we get to see some pics of Momma and babies!!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Bingo your are correct on that point, when someone talks or in this case types to people like your quotes below show you do, it is very hard to hear what they have to say.



Members can ask questions but I am not fooled when questions are disguised as accusations and assumptions. So I am curious and would like to ask you a question, do you know this OP, do you know her dogs, do you know anything about her, or are you just making assumptions based on your vast knowledge from spending hours at your keyboard. You are very quick to say Carmen is a good breeder, why have you met her, have you seen her dogs (other than pictures) have you met or seen or talked to anyone that owns her pups. Several times I read where you said good breeders should not be in it for the money, well if Carmen is not showing dogs then I guess she must be in it for charity. If you have not met Carmen than I will take a risk and assume that you think she is a good breeder because she posts good information. Well this OP only made one post so how do you know she is so different from Carmen, did you even give her chance to find out.

This thread is useless and going no where no matter what I say you will have some thing nasty to say about it so why should I try? If you don't do it for money it can simply be because you love the dogs. I apologized for the love of God let it go.

Taylor- know when to stop- let it go. Just ignore. Don't keep this thread going 4 more pages of back and forth non sense.

Well well well 6 pages of what? I took my morkie to the vet today and I told him things you guys where saying to me lol. He told me to not listen to you and to leave his professional work to him. But you guys can talk blah blah blah because you maybe board I can get that way to but I usually don't go so far with it to make myself look pathetic but hey that's your doings.. And thank you for people who are taking up for me it's very appreciated and means a lot seriously. Oh and by the way there are suppose to be 3 and my grandma and uncle are going to share him/her for the kids they are going to carry it around in a doggy purse, and I'm getting one. So 1 left and everyone is begging me for it and I think we are going to draw out of a hat. She is doing great I love feeling her babies kick. I really really don't like this site but I did want to say what I just said. I don't need you guys help AT ALL my mom helps me a lots. And I'm not selling none but 1 for the shots, docked tail, and whatever else comes up what 100$ people would pay that in a heartbeat go ahead and say something like you wouldn't ever pay that. Hey, it's your opinion and your not from around here. I paid $350 for my morkie and she was the last out of her litter left so apparently people want them and there was 3.

:thumbup:

I don't mean to add anymore to this thead, because there is no doubt I have had to much to say, but i did want to add I think Carmen is great, i only used her as an example trying to prove a point that we never gave the OP a chance so I hope no one read this wrong, I think Carmen is not a good and ethical breeder.

Hi, welcome, and congratulations! I hope everything goes okay during the welping and look forward to seeing photos of your new babies.
:D

you see ladies this is what happens when we let our passion go high and Hot, I KNOW Donna did not mean what she wrote above, she is a good caring person, but when we feel so hot about something so delicate as BREEDING a dog is, misunderstanding are always at the door, if I was a new breeder here I will be furious, first it was said that I am not a show breeder, YES I AM, I don't show yorkies, but my daughter DOES show silkies, I never brag here because this is a YORKIE board, and my yorkie Prada is just a PET, My puppy parents, for those of you that are curious, about my breeding puppies, the owner are very happy I have a facebook page for my silkies and parents post there all the time for the world to see.. and finally ladies, please let it go, ethical breeding is a wonderful idea, but is really UP to each breeder and their RIGHT to breed their dogs, some people do it right and do their homework and learn, and get a mentor and so on, others think that putting two dogs together and letting "MOTHER NATURE" do her thing is the right way, and then when they find themselves in a deep jam, then they run for help, Thank God, for the internet, that now help can be given to them fast and most of the time save the life of the mom and the litter, you might not agree with this but think about it, is the Right thing to do.. and with that said, Donna yes my box is overflowing,and I appreciate every single one, Taylor, to you girl, no offense but take a breather and think what if you needed help and people would just jump on you with critizing and not really the detailed help you need.. just think about it , the more critical you are of a newbie the more defensive and the less chance of helping and teaching them a lesson , everyone deserves a chance you have no idea how many breeders from here I have turned into NON breeders, but I do it in private and by making them understand how hard it is, for them and the mama dogs..
I am not telling you to stay in a corner and be invisible but is a time and place for everything, and if you just welcome a person, give them a little help and then when they are ready tell them why is that you feel is wrong to do what they did , the person is more receptive of your help, also remember this is written, people can't get the tone of which you are posting, they only read harsh words, not the caring tone that you might be using..
hugs to all and have a good day..

Wow.. Look at this thread- too bad it wasn't 5 pages of Welcomes and helpful advice!



I so agree

OMG Carmen so sorry about my typo, thankfuly I get the sense you knew what I meant, I do try hard to correct my mistakes but that one slipped through the cracks and like you said it could have been misunderstood very badly. Here I am trying to pove a point about being nice and my typo wound up being insulting, I will leave now with my tail tucked and hope you will forgive me. But heck i will say that got another very wise and wisdom filled post out of you:D:D

Bolded part, exactly.

No one is asking you to say nothing. They're asking you to say it without negativity toward the poster, and/or toward the situation the poster has created for themselves and their dogs and the dog population at large. If we alienate the poster, the chance to educate and change behavior and help dogs is over.

----------------

Bottom line is this:

1) We need experienced breeders who are willing to help without negative judgment - this not only helps the vulnerable pups, but it also creates a trusting relationship w/ the new member/breeder. That trusting relationship is an ideal starting place for education later.

2) We need (and should expect/allow) experienced members whose main goal is to educate about good breeding practices. And this is where the educators can go 1 of 2 ways: either educate, or alienate. If you want to *truly* educate, then do it - without monopolizing the thread. If what you're going to say is going to alienate or attack, then don't post.

You had an opportunity to take the high road here; I'm sorry to see you didn't take it. It would've been great to just see a genuine Thank You to those who helped, if you really meant it. I may be the odd one out, but when I see someone denigrate others and then say 'btw, thank you' - the meanness pretty much cancels out the potential sincerity of the thank you.

Hope everything works out well for you and your puppies. I hope you have the courage to stick around, open your mind, and see possibilities. :)

[QUOTE=carmen in nj;4102276]you see ladies this is what happens when we let our passion go high and Hot, I KNOW Donna did not mean what she wrote above, she is a good caring person, but when we feel so hot about something so delicate as BREEDING a dog is, misunderstanding are always at the door, if I was a new breeder here I will be furious, first it was said that I am not a show breeder, YES I AM, I don't show yorkies, but my daughter DOES show silkies, I never brag here because this is a YORKIE board, and my yorkie Prada is just a PET"

I almost posted on this when I saw this because I always read you posts and had seen where your daughter had shown some of your babies but didn't want to add fuel to this thread. Glad you clarified it all. God bless.