What should you expect to find in health warranty and be realistic

[YorkyKids]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

No not at all you silly goose. I was just saying no matter who wise you think you are (me) you can still step into a pile of manure.

Wnalegria!! You are so correct. I too as an experienced breeder also got suck for thousands of dollars recently because I took the breeders word! I ended up with a lovely Yorkie but one which could not be bred because of a gentic condition. Everything must be in writting!

[YorkyKids]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

One or no testicle...this is something that I've heard a lot about lately. To me, a breeder should deduct the cost of the neuter since these can be cancerous.

What if the breeder ONLY sells on spay/neuter contracts. The male must be neutered anyway right! Why should the breeder deduct this cost for a non life threatening condition. Especially if the condition is revealed before the sale.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by centralnewyorki

Irene, that is the sign of a great breeder, IMO. Someone that you can turn to for help and advice because it shows that you truly care about your puppies.

Thank you Susan. I try my best always willing to make improvements as needed too.

I just figured out that out of the 21 pups I have placed a total of 9 pups with families that have bought from me before. The others are still single pup families
I am truly proud of the reputation I've established.

Irene

[yorkiemom1970]

What a great thread, and a perfect opp for me to post on this...I have a problem with impulse puppy buyers. I don't like to place a pup in these situations and I won't to the best of my knowledge. They see a cute yorkie and bam! they want one now!
Usually in a situation like that, they havent done their research and have no clue all that is involved with caring for a dog. The problem is that some people can slip right through this and you won't even catch it.

Example: I placed a pup ealiar this yr that was a replacement pup to me for a boy I had that passed away. My breeder stood behind her end and gave me a replacement. However, the replacement was not to my liking as far as putting this paticular dog into my program. Health wasn't an issue, there were just some faults I did not want. Didnt mean the pup didnt deserve a great life...So i placed it with a family who had been in contact with me for some time. I felt that this family knew what they really wanted as they had been asking about a puppy for quite some time. After some time with no complaints on their end, i felt this all worked out for the best..

I got a phone call few days ago, left on my answering maching, saying that they "weren't real happy with the dog" and that they would like to know if there was any way i could "change" their limited reg so that they could sell the dog. (why they would want this done is beyond me at this time) Mistake number one in my book is the admission of wanting to sale this puppy. I have called them several times now and have not been able to get an answer or another call back. VERY STRANGE.
They signed a contract with me stating that this puppy was not being sold to them for re-sale purposes.That if they could not keep this dog for any reason throughout it's life that it would be returned to me. Of course I can't change the reg for them and even if i could heck no i wouldnt! But now I am faced with the fact that I feel they do intend to sale this puppy after having it for several months. My main concern for any puppy that I place is to know for sure that it is in good hands and that it is being taken care of by someone who truly wants it. What would you do? Would you stand behind the contract and order them to hand this puppy back over to you? This could result in a small claims suit, which I am in no state of mind to deal with at this paticular time...in any other situation i would be there with bells on if it were for the protection of a dog. My main concern here is for the well being of this puppy. I want to know that it is with good people who will love and care for it. I dont understand them calling me, leaving me that message (which i saved) and then not being able to contact them back. I also have a problem with the statement "we're not not real happy with the dog" because this leads me to think that if they aren't happy with it, that it may not be being treated as it should. Does this make sense to anyone?

So, is this an en-forcable part of a puppy contract? What steps should be taken now? I have a few ideas of my own, but i'm up for any of your input.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by YorkyKids

What if the breeder ONLY sells on spay/neuter contracts. The male must be neutered anyway right! Why should the breeder deduct this cost for a non life threatening condition. Especially if the condition is revealed before the sale.

Good God! That's NOT what I'm talking about! There are breeders out there that do not use spay/neuter contracts, buy a male and it's testicles never drop. I know of someone that this happened to recently and she doesn't know how to approach the breeder.

[YorkieRini]

Robbie,

I am so sorry you got 'the call'. If this happend to me I would say send me all the info on this puppy. Size, recent pics, price they would like to get for the pupy and if it's housebroke. I would then take it upon myself to find it a replacement home. I could handle one of my puppies going to someone i know NOTHING about. I would tell the current owners to leave it up to you and you will find a home.

Good luck!
Irene

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Good God! That's NOT what I'm talking about! There are breeders out there that do not use spay/neuter contracts, buy a male and it's testicles never drop. I know of someone that this happened to recently and she doesn't know how to approach the breeder.

I would think if you wanted to avoid this you would need to include something like, 'cannot guarantee that puppy will be of standards considered appropriate for breeding as an adult'...or something like that?

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Robbie,

I am so sorry you got 'the call'. If this happend to me I would say send me all the info on this puppy. Size, recent pics, price they would like to get for the pupy and if it's housebroke. I would then take it upon myself to find it a replacement home. I could handle one of my puppies going to someone i know NOTHING about. I would tell the current owners to leave it up to you and you will find a home.

Good luck!
Irene

**Type o...I meant couldn't

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by YorkyKids

Earmites mange etc. Geeze at what point does the buyer take any responsibility. Some of these conditions can be determined by a novice buyer by inspecting the puppy and his surrounding before purchase! there is really no excuse for any buyer to accept a puppy with these conditions.

I forgot that you weren't around when I posted this thread...hence the referrence to the earmites and mange...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...lthy+guarantee

[YorkyKids]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Good God! That's NOT what I'm talking about! There are breeders out there that do not use spay/neuter contracts, buy a male and it's testicles never drop. I know of someone that this happened to recently and she doesn't know how to approach the breeder.

Oh Then that's a whole different problem. I was only talking about placing pet/companion puppies. Of course a dog sold for breeding or show purposes should be guaranteed by the breeder to perform to the contract specifics. Breedability is different if the dog was sold with full breeding rights. It all depends on what the breeders contract stated at the time of purchase. Sorry I didn't understand your question initially.

[yorkiemom1970]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Robbie,

I am so sorry you got 'the call'. If this happend to me I would say send me all the info on this puppy. Size, recent pics, price they would like to get for the pupy and if it's housebroke. I would then take it upon myself to find it a replacement home. I could handle one of my puppies going to someone i know NOTHING about. I would tell the current owners to leave it up to you and you will find a home.

Good luck!
Irene

Irene, that is exactly the reason for my "right of first refusal" in my contract. If someone cannot keep one of my puppies for any reason, I want the right to take it back into my care and find it a suitable home. These people read and understood this and signed it. I don't understand their way of thinking now. Do they think I am just a push over or that I dont care one way or other what happend to this yorkie? Thats what i think they must be thinking which couldnt be farther from the truth. I would love to have the size, recent pics and all the info, however I have not been able to make contact with them since their intitial phone call to me. I do have their address. I was thinking of driving to their home myself this week. It's so frustrating. And I'm going through so much as it is, I really felt even WORSE when I got that call because I immediately started worrying over this paticular puppy now. If I could just speak with them or get them to call me back I would remind them to read their contract and that it will be left up to me to place this puppy again. I find it very odd that they called me and left the message and when I return their call, I can't get anyone on the phone or by email. Really makes me wonder what is going on here...

[YorkyKids]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

I forgot that you weren't around when I posted this thread...hence the referrence to the earmites and mange...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...lthy+guarantee

That is just awful. Awful!! It's pretty clear this guarantee is absoluely "no guarantee". It's one thing to be an uneducated breeder but what's worst IMO is an uneducated buyer. I don't mean to be cruel but again at what point so we stop protecting people from themselves and their stupidity. Please do not flame me. A breeders job is a hard one. I am sadden beyond belief when I see trash (the human type) such as this on the internet. Trash ?? sorry I just couldn't think of another word at this time. I surely wish there was a way to "rescue" these poor unfortunate animals.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by yorkiemom1970

Irene, that is exactly the reason for my "right of first refusal" in my contract. If someone cannot keep one of my puppies for any reason, I want the right to take it back into my care and find it a suitable home. These people read and understood this and signed it. I don't understand their way of thinking now. Do they think I am just a push over or that I dont care one way or other what happend to this yorkie? Thats what i think they must be thinking which couldnt be farther from the truth. I would love to have the size, recent pics and all the info, however I have not been able to make contact with them since their intitial phone call to me. I do have their address. I was thinking of driving to their home myself this week. It's so frustrating. And I'm going through so much as it is, I really felt even WORSE when I got that call because I immediately started worrying over this paticular puppy now. If I could just speak with them or get them to call me back I would remind them to read their contract and that it will be left up to me to place this puppy again. I find it very odd that they called me and left the message and when I return their call, I can't get anyone on the phone or by email. Really makes me wonder what is going on here...

Well I have that same clause whatever works right?

If you are like me than you are worried sick about that poor puppy being in a home where he's nolonger wanted what a HORRIBLE feeling. I had someone return a puppy to me because he was not what he wanted looks wise. I knew he was being cared for but not being wanted and being away from me broke my heart. He was returned to me a couple days later. Poor little fella. He's in a home with a pup he grew up wiht from another litter so his was truly a happy ending. But the stress!!!

(((hugs)))
Irene

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by YorkyKids

What if the breeder ONLY sells on spay/neuter contracts. The male must be neutered anyway right! Why should the breeder deduct this cost for a non life threatening condition. Especially if the condition is revealed before the sale.

I paid the difference between a regular alter and the more complicated surgery because I felt that I had a obligation to do so. Remember this was not a puppy that I bred but one that I purchased. I still had an obligation even with full disclosure

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by YorkyKids

Very good question! Kathy I'm with you I do not guarantee floppy ears or even retained tesicles on a pet male. For goodness sake these conditions are NOT life threatening and these conditions are what makes a pet a pet and not a show dog or a breeding dog. Doesn't at all mean they don't deserve a loving forever home.

as to what conditions are grounds for a refund or new puppy. Leggs perthe disease, livershunt, PPA (eye disease) PDA (a heart disease) are among the most notable in Yorkshire Terriers. A breeders contract should (IMO) be written for the benefit of the buyer and not the breeder. If one reads the contract of most breeders carefully. You will find the puppy MUST die or if it's a life threatening condition the puppy MUST be given back to the breeder. Now doesn't it stand to reason that a puppy owner is not going to give a puppy back after bonding? Sure it does and most breeders know this. It is a pretty save bet that the breeder with contracts of this nature will never see the pup again. For goodness sakes if you as consumers do not start holding breeders responsible for the "product" they produce then nothing will ever change in regards to breeding dogs. Nothing! If the breeder refuses to give you a 100% genetic guarantee whether the animal lives or dies then you should walk away. No matter how much you want the pup walk away. And the guarantee should also guarantee against life threatening (but not fatal) genetic diseases. Do not be in a hurry to buy the first puppy you see. Most of todays problems are based on the "buy it now" mentality or "I want it now" mentality with little or no thought given to what happens after the sale or what has happened to that puppy in his short life BEFORE the sale. Find a breeder you like and trust then get on his/her waiting list. You will be so happy when that healthy specimen arrives and you can take your bundle of joy home. The internet is a wonderful tool to use when looking for a puppy. But I think nothing takes the place of face to face meetings. Please do not just go to the airport for your bundle of joy sight unseen. The breeder has your money and you are in no way assured of the health of the puppy.

So 1) check for genetic diseases in the contract. Some are common and some not so common, but a vet must provide proof of such disease. 2) check the length of guarantee. Something longer that a normal 3 day well-ness checkup. You need a guarantee of at least one year for genetic disease to become apparent. some breeders offer 2, 3, or 5 years. Some breeders even offer a lifetime guarantee for genetic disease. 3) Determine what if anything the breeder is required to do when notified the puppy is ill!

I am not a breeder (yet) nor do I play one of tv. But, I would like to say this even if I have no business in this thread. I do intend to be a responsible breeder in a few years. When I purchased my little maleCeeby, I had looked high and low for a dog with erect ears. I had found one that was already eight or nine months old near my home. He was proced reasonable and within my budget. Only problem his ears had never come up. Seller said he thought it was because he had ear mites as a pup. WELLLLLL, to make a long story short, I jumped on YT and asked you guys about this and most of you, nearly ten to one, stated that the floppy ears was a genetic problem. The rest of you said it was debatable. So based on your advice, I passed that little man up. i didn't want to start my program with a dog with a genetic problem that would be passed on to my pups. I have seen ears come up several weeks after people get their dogs from the breeder. They don't all go up by six weeks. So, my question is why shouldn't it be covered in warranty? Ceeby's ears were erect at six weeks when I picked him up. All his parents and grandparents were on site. They all had erect ears. Now, if I had gotten him home and they had flopped down, it would have been my responsibility to trim them and tape them. But if they were never up and i thought I was buying a dog for breeding purposes with no genetic defects, I would have been highly pi$%$$ at the breeder after learning on here that most of you think it is a genetic defect. Pet only, it wouldn't matter to me but breeding program foundation, it means a lot.