Are Breed Standards Good for the Dog?

[minniemn]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I was truly hoping that someone would actually address the points in the article and find evidence to refute them.

I imagine that most people are not interested in this, nor do they have the time.

The standard was set for a reason, just like the laws are set for a reason, we may not agree with them but they are what they are- we can go through steps to try and change them- but I doubt it is an easy thing to do.

With your extremly busy schedule that you posted for us, I don't know how you have the time to find all this stuff, and post about it. I am not 1/2 as busy as you and I seem to run out of time all the time... maybe you have a longer 24hrs a day than I do (lol, to be taken lightly as it is an attempt at humor)

Your dogs are your dogs, you love them for who they are, as all of us do.... it really shouldn't matter if they are standard or not.

I do wonder if you want to breed your tiny, nonstandard yorkie for a higher price since they would be "tiny" and "rare" (as I have read you say about your yorkies, they are rare) no one here is going to come to your house and lecture you.... heck you don't even have to tell anyone.

It is your consious that you have to worry about, no one elses.

I really can't understand why all the topics that are, I guess you could say "hot buttons" and the reason I say that is because this forum is full of breeders who do their best to follow standards.... and all theses posts seem to be trying to get people to agree that maybe this isn't the right way, or in the best interest in the dog.

If there were no standards, eventually we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a yorkie, poodle, rotty, maltese ect... they are there for a reason, you don't have to like them or agree with them- but they are there and probably always going to be.

Do you realize that, people on one of your other threads, well it may not have been your thread, but one you were very active on... took their personal time to call their own vets (also taking up their time) to try and get answers FOR you, yes FOR you because most of us agree with the general posters on that subject... and you didn't bother to "thank them" well not that I read anyways... and now you want people to look up stuff and try and prove this person who wrote the article you quoted and find evidence to refute it? why would they? you can do this also.... people liked to be thanked for taking their time for you, at least acknowledged that you read it....

whew... off my soapbox, hopefully you find whatever it is you are looking for- I for one can not understand it all.

ps- I also wanted to thank the breeders that do their best to withhold the standard, without them, there would be no more yorkies.

pss- I also understand that even with the best breeding you can have yorkies that are born with different colors other than standard...

[sylvan]

Originally Posted by flyorkies

i thought it was an interesting story but i feel we do need a breed standard. most of that story was about inbreeding. good breeders dont inbreed as far as im concerned. as far as breed standard i recently discover my yorkies have faults and should not be bred. i dont mind that they are perfectly healthy but they did come with full registrations and truthfully i would like breeding to be monitered in some way. if i had just said who cares and didnt post pics on yorkie talk i would have had horrible looking pups maybe with more defects or flaws then the 2 i have. see i feel i paid alot of money for my babies just to find out they have faults that arent the common ones that i had learned about before buying. now it was alot of money to me but it really wasnt becuase a yorkie that grows up to totally represent the breed standard is 1. hard to find and 2. are about triple the price that i paid. now i love my pet quality yorkies but i feel kind of cheated in a way almost lied to.i feel that with the amout of yorkies for sale in the newspaper in florida and online maybe there is 1 or 2 that will represent breed standard. learning is what ive been doing and i have learnded almost everyone i know or i have seen with a yorkie in my area has a bad representation of the breed. probrably great pets like mine but not breed standard and they paid even more for theirs then i did for mine. its a crude reality once you do your research. too many people dont, like me i thought i knew alot but i was definitly wrong about that. these people have no idea they are walking around with 3,000 dollar pet quality yorkies all because a breeder told them it was a great yorkie and they spent alot. as a purchaser of a yorkie i feel that the breed standard is great to have but it needs to be enforced to keep the yorkie quality or its truthfully a neverending battle and the yorkie will look like a poodle in 20 or 30 years.

Well said...
The line breeding that was used to establish the standard can have diasterous affects if not done carefully, however, without these originating breeders, all dogs would be a generic jumble of mixes. Standards were established to maintain the features that are inherent to a particular breed. The number of dogs that do exhibit the standard features are such that heavy line-breeding and in-breeding is no longer neccessary to maintain the correct qualities of the breed. When breeding is done without regard to the standard, you begin to see the yorkies that barely resemble what we love about the breed, including temperment and appearance. Why would anyone promote this and claim to LOVE the breed?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

I will have to look at other breeds standard but the YTC devotes time to health of the breed. http://www.ytca.org/foundation.html

Maybe when describing standard they only include things that you can see? A judge would have a hard time "judging" health wouldn't it? They can see confidence and that is part of what they judge.

Thanks for posting the link. It was nteresting to read and I find it commendable that the club does work in these areas as they are so imprtant to the breed. What you cited was the YTCA Foundation which is an offshoot part of the club not directy related to breeding or breed standards.

A lot of breeds include a great deal about temperament in their standard and even if they didn't I would still argue the fallacy inthis since the temperament of a dog is so much more important than his outward appearance. It should be included in every standard unless it is a "beauty contest" only.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by sylvan

Well said...
The line breeding that was used to establish the standard can have diasterous affects if not done carefully, however, without these originating breeders, all dogs would be a generic jumble of mixes. Standards were established to maintain the features that are inherent to a particular breed. The number of dogs that do exhibit the standard features are such that heavy line-breeding and in-breeding is no longer neccessary to maintain the correct qualities of the breed. When breeding is done without regard to the standard, you begin to see the yorkies that barely resemble what we love about the breed, including temperment and appearance. Why would anyone promote this and claim to LOVE the breed?

Is it possible for the breeders who responsibly breed outside the standard to do so and the "show breeders" continue to responsibly breed within the standard? What is the problem with both types co-existing and why can't they all be yorkies, just soem are for the show ring and some are for loving only?

Please show me logically how this would "ruin the breed"?

[sylvan]

For those who are unfamiliar with the Yorkshire Terrier Club of
America Foundation, I have quoted from the by-laws of the Foundation
for your information. It is further noted that membership is not
limited to YTCA Members.
.

"The specific purpose and objectives of the Foundation shall include
but not be limited to the following:
.
1) To foster and promote the public's knowledge and appreciation of
dogs in general and Yorkshire Terriers in particular;
2) To further understanding of the diseases, defects, injuries and
other ailments that afflict dogs in general and Yorkshire Terriers in
particular;
3) To support and promote study of and research on the history,
character, varieties, breeding, genetics, and particular health
problems of Yorkshire Terriers;
4) To establish a national data base of resource materials about
Yorkshire Terriers;
5) To produce, publish and distribute to the general public
educational materials about the proper care, treatment, breeding,
health, development and training of Yorkshire Terriers."
.
If you are interested in knowing more about the Foundation and how you
can be a part of it's goals, you may contact:
.
YTCA Foundation, Inc.
Sharon McCadam, Secretary
2901 East Section Street
Mount Vernon, WA 98274-6101
.

.
I would say this is directly related to breeding and is integrally linked to the YTCA.

[sylvan]

[QUOTE=sylvan
. When breeding is done without regard to the standard, you begin to see the yorkies that barely resemble what we love about the breed, including temperment and appearance. [/QUOTE]
Already stated...do you need pictures?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by minniemn

I imagine that most people are not interested in this, nor do they have the time.

The standard was set for a reason, just like the laws are set for a reason, we may not agree with them but they are what they are- we can go through steps to try and change them- but I doubt it is an easy thing to do.

With your extremly busy schedule that you posted for us, I don't know how you have the time to find all this stuff, and post about it. I am not 1/2 as busy as you and I seem to run out of time all the time... maybe you have a longer 24hrs a day than I do (lol, to be taken lightly as it is an attempt at humor)

Your dogs are your dogs, you love them for who they are, as all of us do.... it really shouldn't matter if they are standard or not.

I do wonder if you want to breed your tiny, nonstandard yorkie for a higher price since they would be "tiny" and "rare" (as I have read you say about your yorkies, they are rare) no one here is going to come to your house and lecture you.... heck you don't even have to tell anyone.

It is your consious that you have to worry about, no one elses.

I really can't understand why all the topics that are, I guess you could say "hot buttons" and the reason I say that is because this forum is full of breeders who do their best to follow standards.... and all theses posts seem to be trying to get people to agree that maybe this isn't the right way, or in the best interest in the dog.

Do you realize that, people on one of your other threads, well it may not have been your thread, but one you were very active on... took their personal time to call their own vets (also taking up their time) to try and get answers FOR you, yes FOR you because most of us agree with the general posters on that subject... and you didn't bother to "thank them" well not that I read anyways... and now you want people to look up stuff and try and prove this person who wrote the article you quoted and find evidence to refute it? why would they? you can do this also.... people liked to be thanked for taking their time for you, at least acknowledged that you read it......

Wow! I didn't realze people were calling their vets for me??? The thread was Kimberley's and I am and always have been curious but I actually argued that the poll wasn't very helpful since most vets are not experienced enough with breeding to offer much credible opinion on the subject imo. Thank you to anyone who spent their valuable time on my behalf?

You stated that you don't think people are interested in this thread topic, but there are already 39 posts and you are posting I think there is interest and there certainly should be since we have thought that breeders were breeding to "improve the breed" when this may not even be possible.

I don't think it is appropriate to compare a dog Breed Standard set by a hobby club to a law that we are all required to follow or suffer possible punishment. Breed standards are not "laws"...they are guidleines for "club members". Most of us are not in the "club" and so we are not bound by the standards.

You questioned my time and how I can do all this with my busy schedule and I can confess that I ended up not going to Florida due to my health so I have a "free" day so to speak. Yay! I am really trying hard to get away from the computer and I have to soon but it is enjoyable to me and if I could I would discuss yorkie issues all day!! Sick, huh? At least I am amongst people of a like mind here!

I do not know why there are some on here who question my firm stance against breeding and the fact that I could NEVER breed one of my females pets!! I have said it over and over again and just because I question breeder bashing and want all the facts does not mean I am wanting to breed. I know there is no money in breeding and I cannot frankly understand why anyone would risk a female yorkies life by breeding her but I am not to judge and so I respect the responsible breeders on here and I mean no offense. It is just not for me. I have other hobbies and don't need a time consuming one like breeding...lol.

I love tiny yorkies ( they make great service dogs) and have purchased four of them in the last year...there are others on here looking for tinies and so the question on breeding them is one that all are interested in . Obviously no one wants to support animal cruelty or abuse by buying puppies from a breeder who does this so, as consumers, not breeders, we want to know if it really is "cruel or abusive" to breed a certain size yorkie and if it is ..why...and what are the limits so we can not buy from breeders who knowingly breed outside those guidelines set by the repordcutive specialists. I do not know why my motives are questioned and actually find it insulting that some continue to do so but I will try not to be defensive and explain my need to know. As you said, we all must deal with our consciences. I have never been dishonest on this board and I don't intend to start now. I would not start breeding my females and not post about it. I am too honest and open with my personal life on here but that is me.

I am sorry you are uncomfortable with the views I cite and post but they are out there and you are free to ignore them as you see fit. I like to discuss "hot topics" and see what everyone else's opinions are. I wasn't always aware of the "over-vaccination" issue or the fact that altering is not "routine" and there are other options, or that tail docking is painful. I believed what my vets told me. I learn something new everyday on here and I hope that opne a few eyes and that people are better educated about their dog's needs by reading soemthiogn n here and looking into it further. I always encourage everyone to do their own research and then make the decision that is int he best interst of their pet..do not take my word or anyone else's becasue everyone's situation is different.

I hope this clears up some of your concerns.

[PlatinumYorkies]

I joined this site in March. I still don't have a yorkie(it has taken a while to find a breeder)

When I joined this site, I was a lover of Yorkies( I didn't need convincing) Once I joined this site my love for the breed grew. So, what I am saying is...before YT all I knew was the love I have for the breed standard, and that haven't changed. No matter how many different Yorkies I've seen. Thing's like this is making this site repetative and predictable!