Confused

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

Oh I see I didnt know 7 lbs is the limit to be considered a toy dog. I dont know Im on the fence on my views about weight because of the reasons Ive given but I do see the purpose of them being in the toy grouping

Over 100 years ago, 7 pounds was the limit, but there are other breeds who weigh over that, so I don't know what the actual rules are. I heard many breeders say, that they have gorgeous examples of the breed, but nobody wants them because they are 7 pounds, so I often wonder what would happen if the raised the limit? One breeder told me that there is a real difference weight-wise between a 5 and 6 pound dog when you are holding them all day, and I think many people want a dog they can carry around with them, and if the dog doesn't mind it, I have no problem with it.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Over 100 years ago, 7 pounds was the limit, but there are other breeds who weigh over that, so I don't know what the actual rules are. I heard many breeders say, that they have gorgeous examples of the breed, but nobody wants them because they are 7 pounds, so I often wonder what would happen if the raised the limit? One breeder told me that there is a real difference weight-wise between a 5 and 6 pound dog when you are holding them all day, and I think many people want a dog they can carry around with them, and if the dog doesn't mind it, I have no problem with it.

Yea Ive been doing alot of thinking on this this morning because I do have a larger yorkie and I do see the benefit of a larger yorkie but there is also that if you increased the weight of the yorkie the way a yorkie is supposed to look would change. Bigger yorkies are usually rectangular not square, they usually have longer muzzles and so on.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by IsabelleOllie

The breed standard has been not to exceed 7lbs since before my parents bought their first Yorkie in England 1970 when my father was stationed there. IMO a 5-7 lb dog is very capable of being a ratter. I think that the real problem is that too many people see $$$$ and breed Yorkies with no thought as to the health of the puppies,let alone the breed standard. I was very surprised when I started looking for my own Yorkie two years ago at how many off-standard pups are out there. Apple heads, huge eyes, down ears.... all puppies are cute, but half of them don't even look like Yorkies to me.

My nan was raising yorkies in England during this times (for 30+ years). Almost all of her dogs were a dependable 5-6lbs, although she did have the occasional runt that was small from the start and required hand-feeding to thrive. They were all strong terriers, and while most went to pet homes, she had steady customers in a few local farmers that liked her yorkies for ratters.

Even today, when I picture "yorkie" in my head, what she raised is what I visualize. It hard then going to visit breeders and look at puppies and seeing these "apple heads, huge eyes, down ears" that you aptly described. It seems like breeders are either breeding for a 2-3lb babydoll/teddybear face, or they're just wrecklessly breeding whatever to make a buck. And I'm now of the opinion that "papers" mean very little. I've never seen so many "AKC yorkie puppies" that clearly look like there's been some unrecorded mixing in the lines, cos what they are selling looks nothing like a yorkie.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

My nan was raising yorkies in England during this times (for 30+ years). Almost all of her dogs were a dependable 5-6lbs, although she did have the occasional runt that was small from the start and required hand-feeding to thrive. They were all strong terriers, and while most went to pet homes, she had steady customers in a few local farmers that liked her yorkies for ratters.

Even today, when I picture "yorkie" in my head, what she raised is what I visualize. It hard then going to visit breeders and look at puppies and seeing these "apple heads, huge eyes, down ears" that you aptly described. It seems like breeders are either breeding for a 2-3lb babydoll/teddybear face, or they're just wrecklessly breeding whatever to make a buck. And I'm now of the opinion that "papers" mean very little. I've never seen so many "AKC yorkie puppies" that clearly look like there's been some unrecorded mixing in the lines, cos what they are selling looks nothing like a yorkie.

Yea the papers are only as good as the breeder giving them out

[lvtyorkie]

Originally Posted by chachi

I agree if they knew things like liver shunt and hydrocephalis were going to be prevalent in the breed would their decision be different. Its just like the other dogs that have been bred to have very smushed face and now have sever breathing problems

I would have to say, lots more problems have been bred due to trying to make the yorkie smaller. Liver Shunt is one of those. Red flags should go up-teacup yorkie, micro yorkie... Research tells us...usually smaller happens for a reason. Regardless, once you take a puppy as a member of your family you love them, big or small. Making a new Yorkie parent feel bad they bought a over sized serves no purpose. I personally would prefer a larger healthy Yorkie rather than a tiny Yorkie with health problems. We should encourage healthy Yorkshire Terriers within the standard and steer away from breeders whom do not adhere to standard.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by lvtyorkie

I would have to say, lots more problems have been bred due to trying to make the yorkie smaller. Liver Shunt is one of those. Red flags should go up-teacup yorkie, micro yorkie... Research tells us...usually smaller happens for a reason. Regardless, once you take a puppy as a member of your family you love them, big or small. Making a new Yorkie parent feel bad they bought a over sized serves no purpose. I personally would prefer a larger healthy Yorkie rather than a tiny Yorkie with health problems. We should encourage healthy Yorkshire Terriers within the standard and steer away from breeders whom do not adhere to standard.

Well I dont think anyone is trying to make a pet owner feel bad that they bought a yorkie too large or so on. What happens on here is someone says they believe reputable breeders breed to the standard and someone with an off standard yorkie gets offended because their dog doesnt fit in that when the reality is alot dont fit into that and the poster is not trying to make them feel bad they are just stating what a reputable breeder does or trying to refer someone looking for a pup to that kind of breeder. It gets perceived that someone who thinks dogs should be bred to the standard are snobbish and just care about looks, So there are always 2 sides to the story

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lvtyorkie

I would have to say, lots more problems have been bred due to trying to make the yorkie smaller. Liver Shunt is one of those. Red flags should go up-teacup yorkie, micro yorkie... Research tells us...usually smaller happens for a reason. Regardless, once you take a puppy as a member of your family you love them, big or small. Making a new Yorkie parent feel bad they bought a over sized serves no purpose. I personally would prefer a larger healthy Yorkie rather than a tiny Yorkie with health problems. We should encourage healthy Yorkshire Terriers within the standard and steer away from breeders whom do not adhere to standard.

I don't really agree with with your first statement, Liver shunt hasn't occurred because breeders are breeding down, but MANY dogs are under 4 pounds because they have Liver Shunt. Some dogs are under 4 pounds due to genetics, and are very healthy. Liver shunt is a complex disease and they haven't found the marker for it yet, but I've heard they are close. It sounds like it’s a recessive gene, and this is very difficult to manage because it could passed it on, yet the breeding dog shows no signs of the illness. I do agree with your other statements, and I also want to add that good breeders generally do not breed females under 6 pounds. I certainly don't think people at Yorkietalk try to make pet owners feel badly about their dogs, I think they are tremendously supportive of every size, it's just the breeders we are hard on!

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by chachi

Well I dont think anyone is trying to make a pet owner feel bad that they bought a yorkie too large or so on. What happens on here is someone says they believe reputable breeders breed to the standard and someone with an off standard yorkie gets offended because their dog doesnt fit in that when the reality is alot dont fit into that and the poster is not trying to make them feel bad they are just stating what a reputable breeder does or trying to refer someone looking for a pup to that kind of breeder. It gets perceived that someone who thinks dogs should be bred to the standard are snobbish and just care about looks, So there are always 2 sides to the story

It's difficult too when we just talk about size in terms of weight. ZoE varies between 6.8-7.2lbs depending on the day/time of the week we visit the vet (and she's a week shy of a year old, so may still grow/fillout which would put her solidly over the standard.) But, while she is slim/trim, she is a BIG yorkie to me. She is tall and long and just overall bigger (chest, bones, paws, etc.) Starving her to get her technically under 7lbs wouldn't change that.

My last yorkie, Chelsea, was 5lbs. While I would have never thought much of 2lbs prior to this, there is a huge difference in size between the two. Chelsea was easy to carry around all day, ZoE...not so much so. But I love ZoE just the same

Just like my son would be a heckuva lot easier to hug & kiss on if he was 6ft, but at 6'4" (almost a whole foot taller than me), I need a step stool (or he needs to sit down) to get quality hug time. I still love my son even though he grew taller than the 6ft his pediatrician predicted when he was small.

[IsabelleOllie]

Originally Posted by lvtyorkie

I would have to say, lots more problems have been bred due to trying to make the yorkie smaller. Liver Shunt is one of those. Red flags should go up-teacup yorkie, micro yorkie... Research tells us...usually smaller happens for a reason. Regardless, once you take a puppy as a member of your family you love them, big or small. Making a new Yorkie parent feel bad they bought a over sized serves no purpose. I personally would prefer a larger healthy Yorkie rather than a tiny Yorkie with health problems. We should encourage healthy Yorkshire Terriers within the standard and steer away from breeders whom do not adhere to standard.

The Yorkies I had growing up were a 7-8lb male and a 8-9.5lb female (they both gained weight as they got older) and I don't have a problem with Yorkies being larger than the standard. Heck, my grandparents had a big boy who had to be at least 12lbs! I do have a problem with people purposely breeding for tinies due to all of the health issues.

Unfortunately, I don't see how raising the standard weight for showing would change anything in our breed when it comes to the trend of downsizing and breeding tinies - the people breeding these dogs DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR HEALTH! It has happened to other breeds as well. The shih tzu breed standard is 9 to 16lbs, however there are many now breeding "Imperials" who are TINY little shih tzus, some under 5 lbs.

Of course any dog that becomes a member of a family should be loved no matter how big or small he/she is! And no one should be made to feel bad about their family member. My point is that Yorkies are being way over bred by people who know nothing about our beloved breed and there are too many posts on here where new members post pictures of their dog to ask "Does she look like a Yorkie?"

[concretegurl]

I carry my 9# pure Yorkie & 21# Schnorkie (Yorkie mini schnauzer mix) all day long-well okay not all day but ya know.

It's the 22# skin kid all day that's giving me back troubles LOL

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I carry my 9# pure Yorkie & 21# Schnorkie (Yorkie mini schnauzer mix) all day long-well okay not all day but ya know.

It's the 22# skin kid all day that's giving me back troubles LOL

I can't believe your baby is this big already! I swear it seems like you just had him a few weeks ago. How times flies. His first Christmas...did you get him a special outfit? Hoping you post pics. I miss the days of having lil babies.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

I can't believe your baby is this big already! I swear it seems like you just had him a few weeks ago. How times flies. His first Christmas...did you get him a special outfit? Hoping you post pics. I miss the days of having lil babies.

Actually his Dad picked it out & got it to surprise me when he went out shopping on Black Friday so did my mom, daughter-12, grandma & auntie-I stayed home with my two boys 7 & 7 months.
Definitely will post some pics!
Yes it seems it is going even faster with this baby than it did with the last two I swear as I get older time goes by faster!

[Britster]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I carry my 9# pure Yorkie & 21# Schnorkie (Yorkie mini schnauzer mix) all day long-well okay not all day but ya know.

It's the 22# skin kid all day that's giving me back troubles LOL

LOL, I do agree that my 16lb'er isn't exactly a joy to carry around for long periods of time. I love picking up little 4lb Bandit sometimes - it's just so funny to me, he feels like a piece of paper compared to Jackson.

[Teresa Ford]

Britster I just went back and read all the postings after the last time I posted here. You are a very thoughtful person. I agree with your ideas about breeding for looks and not excellent health. So many of our pure breed dogs have been 'over bred' for extreme features. Health should be the priority.

I work to change the AKC standards to allow dogs with natural tails and ears to compete in show.
I am praying and hope, the younger generation will be able to change how we judge pure bred dogs in shows. IMO, Health First, Second priority Ability, Can they do what they were created for. Third Breed Beauty. Wouldn't that be amazing ?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

Britster I just went back and read all the postings after the last time I posted here. You are a very thoughtful person. I agree with your ideas about breeding for looks and not excellent health. So many of our pure breed dogs have been 'over bred' for extreme features. Health should be the priority.

I work to change the AKC standards to allow dogs with natural tails and ears to compete in show.
I am praying and hope, the younger generation will be able to change how we judge pure bred dogs in shows. IMO, Health First, Second priority Ability, Can they do what they were created for. Third Breed Beauty. Wouldn't that be amazing ?

Just to clear up a few misconceptions, dogs aren’t judge for “beauty” and a dog show is not like a beauty pageant. Dogs are judged on how well they fit an ideal breed standard. This covers physical as well as behavioral traits. While other countries have banned tail docking, it’s still legal for working dogs, and this means that working dogs benefit from the safety aspect of docking, a broken tail is a very painful thing, and I hope we study this more before we change standard. Don’t know much about ear docking because it isn’t done with Yorkies although some people think it is. I’m not sure how you would judge a dog on ability, or what good that would do as far as making sure that dog would be a good breeder and could pass good genes? They are judged on behavioral traits, for example a certain confidence and cockiness, which I love. What is the ability that you think they should look for in a Yorkie? I understand that at one time they were good ratters, but what’s wrong with having a dog that a great companion?

Totally agree with you on the health issue, there is no doubt this is the most important thing to me. I do want to add that the official standard for the Yorkshire Terrier has caused no known health problems, and this is untrue of at least 5 other breeds. Everything from colors, to wriggling skin to overly short muzzles and extremes in body styles has caused numerous health issues. The main problem we have Yorkies is due to their popularity, and people are breeding them who have no real interest in the breed or their health problems.