Strange thought-declaw dogs
 

No not dew claw removal all claws.

Okay how about just the front ones now that I think about it more, like they do to cats I think it's just the front ones.
The back are used for itching themselves, that's even indoor pet functionally needed, right?


So here's the deal I was reading and commented on the thread about nail caps which are just that: plastic soft caps that cover nails.

They are used for several reason:

to protect the nail

to protect skin from nails; both people and dogs

to protect furniture and floors

strictly cosmetic

So I was being sarcastic on the thread about just declawing the dog and I'll be honest I thought of the great frustration with Scoobers, it's a bit different it is genuinely very psychologically stressing on him he has to be safely semi sedated for his nails being trimmed & often his ears being cleaned ( we use rescue remedy & mello mut). He is a rescue that came equip with some issues he may never overcome.

If cat's get declawed why not dogs-apparently it has been done to dogs before.

What makes it so fundamentally different to declaw a cat and not a dog?

Apparently some vet somewhere did it (I really hope it was a vet in a humane procedure-yikes) I'd assume it wasn't like dew claw removal but more like declawing a cat where they take a nap and wake up to the best pain meds one can afford glued skin etc.

Yes I know I'm opening a sensitive controversial topic here and yes I am playing devils advy admittedly but I'm genuinely curious on weather you all are just shocked thinking it's wrong, think there's a functionality to it, other reasoning I haven't thought of etc.

Honestly is it that different from docket tails dew claws removed ears cropped?

Oh, and no, I am not getting my Scoobers declawed.

I don't think it's even widely available-although I may just call and ask my vet if they have ever even heard of it or if they do it.

My groomer is a vet tech she never mentioned it but suggested the nail covers.

If cat's get declawed why not dogs-apparently it has been done to dogs before.

Yes, I Googled it out of curiosity.

It's awful to do it to cats so I would assume it's equally horrible to do to any animal. I wouldn't declaw anything no matter what. I know you are just debating. I'm just saying that declawing a cat is the equivalent of chopping off the tips of your own fingers. It's not okay. So I think it's not okay for any animal.... dogs, cats, etc. Whatever. Just say no to declawing all together. ;) (For what it's worth, some cats have residual pain from declawing for the rest of their lives.)

Personally, I probably wouldn't dock a dogs tail, ears or remove their dewclaws either. Cody came with his tail docked and dewclaws removed so that's that. But if anyone had asked, I would have left it all intact for him. But that's just me. I do feel a little better about it since he clearly has no residual pain from either of those procedures.

Well I have declawed cats before so I do see the reasoning in that because cats use their claws to destroy furniture and things. Dogs dont use their claws for the same purpose as cats so I dont see the purpose in it. Now after hearing the pain cats go through with declawing Im not so sure Im even for that anymore and the cats I have now are not declawed.

I asked my vet about this since my cairn hates and I mean hates her nails clipped. He said no way it is not the same as a cat. Something about the way the dogs paws are used. And said it would not be a good option.. So I do not think they do this...

Never heard of it being done to a dog. They don't use their claws the way cats do anyway.

If they did it and if I had a dog that was being extremely destructive with their claws, I would do it (fronts only). I would do a cat too. Everybody has their opinions on what is right or wrong. IMO, it's okay to do it and I don't see me having a cat without doing it.

A coworker had her cat declawed and it limped for about 6 mos. and then it stopped limping and seemed okay, though she said it cried to get outside seemingly more after that. Don't know if she just had a bad vet or this is somewhat typical.

No thats not typical Ive had cats declawed in the past and they seem to go through it just fine

I'm seriously not passing judgement on anyone. I just want that to be clear. I don't want to be mean or anything or for people to feel like I'm passing judgement or being harsh. Totally not my intention. Just putting that out there.

However, it's not abnormal for cats to have residual pain after a declawing. Some cats never recover. Often you'll see rescues will recoomend you use clumping litter for declawed cats simply because it's softer and easier on their paws.

I understand the resons for declawing, I truly do. However, I also know that the folks here are animal lovers. So I guess I have a hard time understanding why with all the love and care you take with your pups, that you wouldn't invest similar love and care in training your cats. I have two cats with claws and they never destroy furniture or anything else. I make sure they have appropriate things to claw on and train them that those are the appropriate outlets for that behavior. I have never had a moment's worth of trouble with it.

Just like none of us would ever adopt a dog without being willing and able to provide the proper home and training for them, I feel cats deserve exactly that as well. There's no need to declaw... just simple love and training will do the trick. And, if there's a serious problem that you just can't overcome, the nail caps being disucussed here and on another thread can be applied at home and will keep the cat from doing any damage.

There is absolutely no health reason for declawing a cat, and in fact many health reasons not to. It's not a minor medical procedure either... those claws are the equivalent of our fingers. Again, I'm not judging the choices anyone has made. I'm just offering up an explanation for my feelings.

I dont think your judging and I understand why you have your view on it. My views on it have evolved. The last time I had a cat declawed was about 15 yrs ago so its been a while. I still knowing the reasons I did it then I dont judge someone if they do it now. I have 5 cats now and none are declawed. I only have one that scratches on furniture and Im working with her on that

:thumbup::thumbup: Great answer. I completely agree with you! We have two cats and have had no problems with them scratching the furniture. I believe it is a cruel procedure and would never have it done on any of my animals. The procedure includes cutting off the tips of their fingers to keep the nail from growing back, and it is not necessary. Like you said, cats need training as well, and scratching can be prevented by providing scratching posts.

I don't see any point in declawing a dog :(

I am also against declawing any creature. It's pretty rude to think we can have such control over an animal like that...but then again we do remove dew claws, crop ears and tails. I'm really not a fan of all that either.

I remember sitting in my living room years ago and then hearing a gawd awful scream from the neighbors dog. Well, I look out the second floor window and the guy was cutting the ears of his pit bull with a pair of scissors. I called the police and the dog was removed from the house...thankfully. Poor thing...just another way that some people think they "own" an animal to the point they can cause it great pain.

When I had cats I put those soft claws on them and that was so simple, painless and humane.

I couldn't imagine the pain a dog would have with it's nails removed, they need them for so many reasons. I would actually cry if I saw a dog that had that done to it. I can't even see how they would walk correctly either....

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Now Im not trying to be rude just debating the subject. I can understand you having your views but it didnt stop you from buying from a breeder that docks tails either. I dont see any difference in pain level from declawing a cat to docking a pups tail just saying....

I said I am not a fan of cropping ears and cutting tails, not that I think it shouldn't be done.

But I do think declawing any animal is wrong and performing your own surgery with a pair of scissors in the back yard of your house is absolutely insane.

I've had rotties and now a yorkie, I understand why the tails and dewclaws are done.

While I was recently in the hospital twice, Tibbe's nails grew out a bit too long and I was having trouble getting them short enough using the Petipaws or whatever it is called. I called the vets office and asked them to quick the nails while he was under anesthesia. They refused, explaining that doing that causes the nails to be sore and can continue to hurt after the clipping. I fussed about it a bit and thanked them and hung up. Then I got to thinking, when I cut my nail very very short, into the quick, it is quite sore for a long, long time and often I have to put a bandaid over it until it grows out. I felt pretty contrite. So, they clipped Tibbe's nails very short but not into the quick and I feel good about it and know my vet wouldn't do something just for money that might be a problem for my dog.

So I know nails and nailbeds and quicks are very tender areas and likely declawing for cats is a problem but if they are tearing up your house, wonder what else can be done other than declawing? I don't know of anything as effective.

Well no one should be cropping ears except a vet but breeders regularly dock tails. As far as docking tails and declawing I see there is a purpose behind why each is done. The docking is done to ahere to the standard and the declawing is done because the person doesnt want the cat clawing their furniture. Both are done for a purpose thats all Im saying

I'm glad Tibbe's tail is docked and he has no dew claws as he's so rough and tough when he is running and chasing something, I swear he could catch or break or hurt a Yorkie's low-carried kind of thin tail or tear a dew claw. But Tibbe's tail/dews done as a newborn.

My cats were very efficient at tearing up everything I had and their own posts but the soft claws worked wonders and they stay on very well. I bow down to the person that invented those things.

I hear that England considers declawing inhumane...I wonder if there is truth in that.

I didn't know if those really worked or were just a gimmick. I do think if I had a cat destroying my house, I would try anything before I had his claws removed.

It probably is because its also illegal to dock tails there also.

Yeah, I thought they were a gimmick before I tried them. They are pricey too. Well, they were when I bought them years ago. About 39 bucks then for a package of them but, it was so so worth every penny! I was able to actually put leather furniture in my house after that and they stayed on a long time. :)

It was also good when my nieces and nephew came over I didn't have to worry about them getting scratched anymore. Icky things live on the nails of cats.

Yes, declawing is illegal in the UK. Probably why I don't know anyone that has an in-house pet cat.

What if you declawed a dog as a newborn? Would that make a difference?

Just thinking here but if you can remove the dewclaws at birth with no continuing pain and it doesn't affect them, could you do the same with the rest of the nails?

I personally would never do it even if it was an option. I see no reason for declawing whether it be cat or dog. If you want to declaw your cat that is your decision, it just isn't for me.

I've done dewclaws before as that is more of a safety precaution for the dog as those nails grow long, curl and can easily tear/break. So there is a very good reason for doing dewclaws.

Having said that I have had one cat years ago declawed and won't ever do it again. For the rest of his life that cat suffered from having sour paws because of being declawed.
I now have 2 cats and neither of them are declawed. I give them their trees, scratching posts and never have a problem with them wanting to destroy furniture or anything.

There are different methods of declawing. The old method is going to cause more pain, more recovery time, and it is more like cutting off the end of a finger. The newer, better methods cannot necessarily be compared to this. If the pad in the area is left, the cat is much more comfortable quicker. They can also just cut a ligament so the claws can't be extended.

Cat scratches can be very dangerous. In situatios where an imunocompromised person is involved, then it is probably the best option to get rid of them. And people would really rather see a cat get brought to a shelter and probably getting euthanized instead of declawing it??

Most do fine with it, esp. with the better procedures. There are complications just like with any surgery, but sometimes it is the best thing to do. Not everybody would be willing to use Soft Paws. I'm personally not a big fan. That's not to say I think every cat should be declawed routinely. i think training should be attempted. But if needed, it's just something I wouldn't hesitate to do.

FWIW on the quicking the nails under anesthesia thing, my vet does that to her own dog because he hates having his nails clips. Then she cauterizes them after. I'll be asking her to do the same with Rylee when he goes under next because his nails are crazy long. Is it the best thing to do? Probably not. But I don't think he's all too comfy with his nails being so long either.

There are a lot of things done in vet med for owner convenience. That won't stop anytime soon.

It's totally a fair question. It seems those things are done routinely to all pups so there was no way for me to find one that wasn't already done. However, I'll also admit I didn't do an extensive amount of research... I trusted my breeder and it was already done so that was that.

For what it's worth, I've also adopted rescue cats that have already been declawed. My first cats were all declawed, but not by me. My two that I have now have all of their claws and are keeping them.

My college roommate had a cat and had her declawed. She was fine after the procedure, bounced right back, and never showed signs of residual pain. I didn't realize there was so much controversy over declawing cats until probably a year ago. But then again, I don't own a cat, nor do I want to own one...so I had never really read up on it. I doubt I will ever have to make that decision because I doubt I'll ever have a cat of my own.

I can see the reason for removing dewclaws in certain breeds of dogs. Levi does not have his; my brother's little Whippet mix, Dallas, does. Those darn dewclaws are always in Dally's way. He's had to go to the vet a couple of times after getting the dewclaw snagged on something - and he ends up with a big bandage like in the picture below. I think his dewclaws cause him more pain now than a procedure to remove them as a puppy would.

I'm generally against things done purely for cosmetic purposes (like tail docking and ear cropping), but I can definitely see both sides for removing or not removing dewclaws in dogs. As far as fully declawing dogs...I don't see the point, really. Mine have never done any damage with their nails.

My son's dog has torn a dewclaw twice now. It is just the ugliest wound and so hard to heal! I hate that dogs have to have those things in that dogs are usually so carefree and give no thought to their bodies when chasing or playing. And I think it must hurt like heck. Tibbe had his removed but he does have a residual growback on his right foreleg that I keep clipped short and watch all the time.

I can definitely see why dew claws are removed just hearing some of the stories of yorkies on here that have them and they have caught on something and let painful wounds. That is terrible and unnecessary when its a simple proceedure to remove them. I have also heard of them growing back though too

This is true, I really didn't ask for it to be done on Jimmy. It had been done already to my baby boy when I got him. If he came the way he was born than I wouldn't have had anything done to him since I really don't see the need in it, personally.

However, I didn't go out looking for one that didn't have these things done either. It's not really something I'm adamant about. You won't see me protesting these procedures by carrying signs and shunning it. (However, I would protest removing a dogs claws).

From an RVT standpoint,
de-clawing is a very bloody surgery and no, cats don't generally handle it very well. What owners don't see is how their legs jump each time their fingers are snapped off, what owners don't see is that even while they are under they wince in pain some even bite. It's reflex, they are heavily sedated however their nerves still detect whats going on. When the cats wake up the majority of the time the glue that holds their pads closed usually comes out and they bleed all over the cages or they bite at their stitches. Generally we have to put the glue back in and it's very painful for them as their paws are really sore. The cats are so confused, yes they have pain medication but that look in their eyes is awful. What did they do to deserve that? Our clinic stopped de-clawing because people were so flippant about it. It's always "my cat is destroying my furniture". Cat's are rather stoic in the sense that it's weak in the wild to show pain so it looks like they are okay but usually they are in pain for months. Some will even stop using the litter box because post surgery (even with the special litter) they don't understand why it hurts to scratch in the box so they associate pain with the litterbox. Which kind of defeats the purpose because now the cat is being more of a "bother" to the owner for now it's pooping on the floor, it's not tearing up the furniture but it's soiling it.

What I will say is that it's a cats natural instinct to scratch, they have to shed their dead nails. As a responsible owner it's your job to teach them where to scratch and clip their nails like you would a dogs. I own two cats one of which was declawed before we got him. He's declawed in the front AND the back. He doesn't like to use the litterbox, and he still makes scratching motions on the scratching posts because it's his instincts. What his previous owners don't understand is that he has no way of defending himself and he's run outside of my house several times and i've had to go after him. I feel awful for him, but we give him a good home with love and understanding. My other cat I got as a kitten and I've been diligent about clipping his nails and teaching him where to scratch. I have no issues with him and we have leather furniture. SOOO I guess im so against it because it shouldn't be an alternative, owning a pet shouldn't have such an "easy" way out because in the long run it has consequences. Sometimes there are none but i've seen more cases where there are some. My de-clawed cat is slightly arthritic when it's cold and he can barely walk. I know it's because of the surgery. He's only 3 years old and didn't deserve the hand he's been given.

I do have somewhat of an understanding for owners that choose to do it, but it's my own personal preference based on experience to be so firmly against it.

sorry this got kind of long.

To address the dog aspect, I don't think they should be declawed in the front, in the back, anywhere. They can't retract their claws like a cat so it would permanently affect their gait. We need our toes, so do they. I can't imagine it being done in the past, those poor dogs.

I don't think this is comparable to cropping and docking. I am against it, my own yorkie is really against all standards. He's parti-colored and natural tail. (I finally get him in 5 days!) dew claws are different. They are vestigial, like wisdom teeth. It's not just for aesthetics it's to avoid getting it caught on something. Great Pyrenees are the only ones that keep them in their breed standard because of their double set.

If this canine de-claw were done as a newborn I would think it would still have detrimental effects later on in their life. It might not be as painful if they were adults but I think it would end up diminishing their quality of life.