From what I have read, declawing is an amputation of the first knuckle. It is extremely painful and many cats never fully recover. People have to decide before they have cats, what is more important to them. I raised Bengal cats, which are an extremely active breed. They destroyed any climbers we built for them, but better that then our furniture. Declawed cats are defenseless if they escape from their inside home - they don't stand a chance if they encounter a viscous dog. Before declawing, please find a new home for your cat or kitten if you can't handle furniture being scratched. I hope I don't offend anyone but I feel very passionate about this subject.

I'm just curious about the "soft claw" nail tips. Does anyone use these on their yorkies? The reason I'm asking is because my Neo is plagued with allergic "itchies" (he is getting imunotherapy shots) and will scratch until he almost bleeds if I don't keep PJs on him. I thought maybe putting the nail tips on his back claws would help.

I wouldn't be surprised if a leg jumped because nerves are involved. It sounds like the older way is being used. The pads don't have to be damaged to that extent, nor does the tip of the finger have to be cut off (it's a bone piece that is cut out if done the better way). If an animal can bite during a surgical procedure, then JMHO the anesthetist and/or the person that chose the anesthesia to be used are not doing things correctly. An animal that is "properly" anesthetized with isoflurane and in the correct anesthetic plane isn't going to be able to bite. They shouldn't react or they are probably too light. And if general isn't being used and just sedation or if just injectable general is being used, I'd run from there so fast with my animals. Honestly, I have never seen an animal start to wake up or be able to bite while under iso unless they were light (in the case of a dental or whatever where it doesn't matter so much for the cleaning). Even with orthopedics, I've never heard of that happening.

Sounds like it might work. Could try it and see.

My opinion on the subject is that a surgery that is to help the animal in some way is fine. I don't believe that mutilating an animal to "save" your furniture is humane or reasonable in any way and is the epitomy of selfishness. Just as parents know they must sacrifice some things because they have children (sleeping in on weekends, barf on the carpet, etc), a pet owner must realize that having a cat or dog or whatever means that maybe you don't have the nice furniture if you're not willing to take the time and effort to train your "friend". In my opinion, I would rather see someone re-home their cat or dog before mutilating it.

Our Ozzy had his tail docked by the breeder, but we would never have done that on our own. To me, anything done to make a dog or cat "standard" is like having cosmetic surgery done on your child because you think it should look more like the other kids. Kind of ridiculous when you give it some thought!!

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That's exactly what I meant to say but didn't put it so eloquently. :)

I agree with sacrifice part (I have been sacrificing my stuff in my house last couple of weeks with the new puppy but I don't care. I still love him) :)

It is an amputation to declaw any animal. It is cruel and senseless. I realize it may be a lot of trauma to trim nails but it can be done. Usually paying $10.00 to a groomer or a vet tech will do the job.
My daughter found an apartment that she really wanted but was told she could only have her cats if they were declawed. I told her not to do it but she took her full grown cat and had it done. The cat's feet are now deformed and painful to walk on. If someone insists on declawing a cat it should be done as a young kitten not an adult. I cannot even imagine the trauma it would be to an adult dog to do such a thing. A vet that would amputate a dogs claws for mere convenience of the owner should lose their license.

Dogs use their claws to help with balance. It would deform the paw to go without the nails. They are there for a reason.

I have cats and as you can tell by my post above I do not declaw. I do trim my cat's nails. Only the cat that tends to scratch furniture. I started trimming the nails when the cat was a kitten. If someone has difficulty with that they can wrap the cat in a small blanket with only a paw sticking out and then cut the nails. Of course you need someone to help you with the procedure but it is a quick and painless way of trimming the cat's nails. My boy is very good about it but he is used to being handled and trusts me.

All this talk about amputation of animal's body parts makes me wonder if some people should even own an animal.

I don't see a problem with the soft tips being put on an animal's nails but it seems to me if you are going to go through all that trouble you may as well just trim the nails.

I am so torn on this. I'm currently looking for another puppy. ZoE's tail is docked and I know even as I type it how horrible it sounds, but I'd really like them to match. While I wouldn't choose to dock tails if I bred puppies myself. I know today, I would choose a docked tailed over a full tail if a breeder had both available in a litter (assuming equal health, traits, etc.)

Docking a tail on a Yorkie may be done for cosmetics to some but many breeders do it because they know it is practical. On any Yorkie I have had, they have probably needed it as they are reckless dogs and give no thought as they race under, through and around anything when they are chasing something or playing. Yorkies with tails carry their rather thin tail out and not curled protectively over the back. It is not a substantial tail like a Lab's is to its size - the Yorkie tail is rather frail and carried out back and is subject to catching on things. In the old days when they were under houses and under barn stall sides with rusty nails and splinters, farm equip. etc., they were racing around chasing vermin and would catch their little tails and shred them badly. Now with lawn furniture and equipment and things out back, Yorkies still race under and by things with abandon. You can find things sticking out haphazardly under some antique furniture and I have a few pieces like that - pieces Tibbe can and does get under - sometimes running. I am glad Tibbe doesn't have a tail, dewclaws or long ears to catch on anything and tear. He gives no thought to himself when he starts after a squirrel or a toy or another dog and he will go through, under or around anything to get to it.

I had hammertoes on both my feet which caused me pain and tingling on occasion. On the advice an Orthopedic surgeon I had the surgery to shorten the toes. I now have a toe that completely twists around on itself and more nerve tingling and occasional pain then I ever did before surgery. My surgery was over nine years ago and the area still bothers me. I believe based on my own experience that a declawing surgery performed on an animal would perhaps result in similar issues. I go through life not complaining as well but it still bothers me every day.

Here's a few of my thoughts here.

I really appreciate how honest people are being here. It really wasn't about weather you are pro declawing a cat or not.

I hope there wasn't a comment about just have a groomer or vet do it meant for me like I don't take my dog to the groomer or the vet to do it already and it cost $35 actually.

Like debarking it's not mainstream and it's being done.

Dew claws, tails ears should only be done when medically necessary but a vet, with a local in the least; not a breeder with a pair of scissors IMHO.

I prefer docked tails to prevent tail injury. I've seen too many tail injuries so I see the reasoning & beleive in it. But I do like the Biewer fluffy tail and how it looks-yes I feel torn on it personally.

My mini schnauzer has fully hair coated ear canals, I asked her breeder not to crop ears I had no interest in showing her, and at the time only thought it was some inhuman procedure and associated it with dog fighting.

Of course I pluck hers, she has never had an ear infection. My vet has considered we still are giving Scoobers a later ear cropping he get 3-7 infections a year even with minimal hair and a rigorous routine in hygeine, treatments. I'm very torn on it and my vet says it a last resort because she'd never consider it normally but Scoobers ears really are problematic and a rare case. I LOVE how funky floppy his ears are but if it's needed I'll have it done. So far we are dealing with the issue.

So I see where ear cropping is medically necessary at times. I despise the look of cropped ears but am for it now after understanding why.

Scoobers had an emergency dew claw removal. It was by far the most disgusting thing ever I'm blood phobic too (Hemophobia). I grew back hasn't been done since I'm not up for changing bandages again.


Cat declawing:
I'm confused about this whole amputation thing!
I read about it last night (I just had no real understanding or information on it thus no opinion). I have seen them in rescue being listed as indoor only because of it. Actually I have known someone who had it done to their cat and their cat had the back claws which I remember thinking was kind of strange but worked out last night obviously they need their back claws to itch themselves right?

It says it's like removing a fingernail in people but you clip it directly at the bone and sever a ligation. I had no idea about actually removing part if the end of the bone which is the older produre Ellie May is explaining.

I'm still running this all through my own head trying to process how I feel about it.

Here's a few of my thoughts here.

I really appreciate how honest people are being here. It really wasn't about weather you are pro declawing a cat or not.

I hope there wasn't a comment about just have a groomer or vet do it meant for me like I don't take my dog to the groomer or the vet to do it already and it cost $35 actually.

Like debarking it's not mainstream and it's being done.

Dew claws, tails ears should only be done when medically necessary but a vet, with a local in the least; not a breeder with a pair of scissors IMHO.

I prefer docked tails to prevent tail injury. I've seen too many tail injuries so I see the reasoning & beleive in it. But I do like the Biewer fluffy tail and how it looks-yes I feel torn on it personally.

My mini schnauzer has fully hair coated ear canals, I asked her breeder not to crop ears I had no interest in showing her, and at the time only thought it was some inhuman procedure and associated it with dog fighting.

Of course I pluck hers, she has never had an ear infection. My vet has considered we still are giving Scoobers a later ear cropping he get 3-7 infections a year even with minimal hair and a rigorous routine in hygeine, treatments. I'm very torn on it and my vet says it a last resort because she'd never consider it normally but Scoobers ears really are problematic and a rare case. I LOVE how funky floppy his ears are but if it's needed I'll have it done. So far we are dealing with the issue.

So I see where ear cropping is medically necessary at times. I despise the look of cropped ears but am for it now after understanding why.

Scoobers had an emergency dew claw removal. It was by far the most disgusting thing ever I'm blood phobic too (Hemophobia). I grew back hasn't been done since I'm not up for changing bandages again.


Cat declawing:
I'm confused about this whole amputation thing!
I read about it last night (I just had no real understanding or information on it thus no opinion). I have seen them in rescue being listed as indoor only because of it. Actually I have known someone who had it done to their cat and their cat had the back claws which I remember thinking was kind of strange but worked out last night obviously they need their back claws to itch themselves right?

It says it's like removing a fingernail in people but you clip it directly at the bone and sever a ligation. I had no idea about actually removing part if the end of the bone which is the older produce Ellie May is explaining.

I'm still running this all through my own head trying to process how I feel about it.

dear god, where do you work????? I would be very against declawing if i worked at your hospital.

I too am a vet tech and have helped with hundreds of declaws. 1) the surgery is not bloody at all if done properly. A tourniquet should be used at the elbow to hold off the vein to prevent the bleeding and slowly let up when the glue has been applied. 2) the legs shouldn't "jump" either if a nerve block is used (and it should be). 3) The cat shouldn't "wince" in pain, bite, or move a muscle during the procedure if the cat is properly anesthetized. They should be under general anesthesia and have pain meds plus a nerve blocker. 4) fingers are not snapped off, nothing should be snapped or clipped off. a surgical blade should be used to remove the nail. 5) Glue is applied to each incision to close the hole. Pads are NOT cut, in fact no part of the skin is removed. When finished, the paw should appear normal as if the nails are still there. Once the glue has dried the paws should be wrapped up to the elbow (and hock/stifle if backs are done). I used to wrap them the same way I would wrap a splint, with 3 different layer and lots of padding on the toes. 6) Yes some cats do wake up and flip out. They can do that with any procedure, some just don't agree with anesthesia or the pain meds used. The right pain med needs to be figured out and the patient should be made comfortable. IV pain meds and a fentanyl patch are best and should be used for at least 2 days after surgery (meaning the cat needs to stay in hosp for a few days). Before the cat goes home, the bandages are removed. If cat freaks out with licking the paws they get a party hat (e-collar) and thin bandages to just act as a preventative.

Dogs, dew claws, tails and ears, IMO, I hate doing things to animals that are purely for cosmetics, or human convince.
I work actively to get the AKC and Breed Clubs to revise their standards concerning docked ears and tails. I think it is wrong that a full tailed Yorkie can not be shown.
(Yes, if I were breeding Yorkies, I would dock tails. Good breeders want to have dogs as close to standard as possible.) BUT I would encourage pet only owners, to let their Yorkie keep a natural tail. Dew claw removal is for medical reasons, like having baby teeth removed. Gracie has dew claws and has sagged them twice. What a bloody mess, and God love her, the torn dew claw was painful and stayed sore for about 2 weeks.
I am pro spay and neuter too. Some of my friends are on the fence about it because of new research. I may be wrong about it but, still belive the benefits out weigh hormone benefits.
Cats ? IMO Train them and let them keep their claws. It is natural, and I think like their whiskers, they need claws.
PEOPLE alter their bodies too ! So much is cultural, we pierce girl babies ears and routinely circumcise boy babies. People (not are all are teenagers) pierce their body and get tatoos of things they may later regret. We glue on fake nails, color our hair, have breast implants, tummy tucks and wear false eyelashes, change our teeth and and have hair implanted or removed. So it makes perfect sense that some of us want our dogs to look the way we think they should look. Even if it means cutting off their tails and part of their ears. I feel bad about some of our values, so superficial.... and perhaps compleatly selfish too.

as far as declawing goes, I am only for doing it to cats under a year old, preferably under 8 months, when they are spayed or neutered. I also recommend that training be done first and all other methods exhausted before doing this procedure. granted if the procedure is going to be done at a young age you only have a small window of time to train your kitten.

As a tech and as a groomer, I would rather work with a declawed (front and back) cat any day then a cat with his claws. I have way too many scars from cats. No matter how good of a hold you have on a cat they always manage to contort their body in any way possible to get to your flesh. lol

aMy daughter had two adult cats declawed by two different vets. One now has deformed feet and walks very painfully while the other one is less physically damaged. This was done 3 years ago. Neither of the cats have ever been the same mentally. They do not have the same lovely personalities anymore and they are also missing a very important part of their anatomy. It is cruel and unnecessary. I trim the nails of my cat that likes to scratch furniture. If a cat resists you just wrap them in a blanket and do one foot at a time. Very simple.

When a puppy has it's tail docked or dew claws removed they are only a few days old. The tail is soft tissue as are the dew claws. The animals never misses the tail or the dew claw. A really big difference from removing their nails. I have never heard of anyone doing such a thing to a dog and I hope that no vet would consider doing such a thing to any animal. You do not go around amputating body parts that are not convenient for you. You find ways of dealing with the problem.

Someone was on here a while back considering cutting off the tail of her adult Yorkie because it had not been done as a puppy. I don't understand this type of thinking. Cutting things off of animals for cosmetics or convenience is just so self centered that I don't understand why a person would have an animal at all!

LOL. And of course it's the ones that are indoor/outdoor and aren't vaxed for rabies...

Here the techs and vets tend to be very happy when there are less nails to deal with.

My cat was declawed a long, long time ago when I was very young. It was bloody, but it was also done by a country vet that had no business doing this procedure. He was not damaged for life and had all four done. However, IMO it has to do with what they are doing and how they are doing it that causes or does not cause problems later for the most part.

Just saw a cat the other day 1 or 2 days after declaw. Its feet hurt, but it certainly didn't appear damaged for life.

I had to laugh at the we Peirce out babies ears and circumcise them...no not here. I'm a conundrum...but at least I'm not about defending training a dog to not injure and self clean and then mutalating children or worse defending not altering a dog for looks but doing o to a child.

I'm debating and pro the 'mutilation' (let's call it what it is altering is a form of mutilation here) of my animals because it's for their own good I can't train my dog to stop getting ear infections to run carefully when playing ball or not to scrape his tail. But when it comes to altering children without their consent as baby's I'll flip out. :p

I can train my son's to wash their 'winkies' so hygiene wise we're good, I don't plan on having my son's sit in trenches where in WWII 5% of soldiers got infection and we didn't start circumcision until them and part of it was political...we aren't Jewish the free men nation of Cherokee in South Carolina just got back the last of the DNA results we in fact are not of any Jewish ancestry which is liek anyways way OT- My son's fit in here just fine less than 30% of the population here circumcises their boys.

Did yall know you should never pierce ears before 7 years in the least the ears are still growing! Not to mention your daughter should choose to mutilate her body or not herself....

oh, and yes I am a hypocrite on this because, I have 15 tattoos, at one point in my life my belly pierced and my tongue :eek: two holes in each ear and a fifth ear piercing at the top (how tacky were those in the 90's? I know not as tacky as my tongue-but the glow stick balls were awesome!). I never did get that chin piercing...my children will never have tattoos my daughter thinks they are so lame because her mom has them her rebellion is to not to YAY for one of life's little miracles!

LOL I freaked out when I first read about tattooing a dog! I was like why! what's wrong with you people! I didn't realize it was to show they had been altered already for females or to provide a # to be registered to the owners before micro-chipping.

Getting off my soap box now, ok I was not saying that it was acceptable to me personally, to pierce baby girls ears or circumcise boy babies. I was just pointing out people do it routinely and think it is fine.
People have cats declawed and think it is fine. People cut off dogs tails and crops ears to get a preferred 'look' and also think that is fine. People do alter themselves, their children, their pets to get a certain look. I was saying, maybe we as thinking human beings should think about why, we are doing these things. IMO if it is for health reasons yes, if it is not, maybe we should let it be.
Being an old hippie myself, I have a tattoo and I also have 3 holes in each ear. LOL
I might cover the grey and and wear control top panty hose, SO am I sort of shallow too ? :)

I worked for orthopedic surgeons for years and one of them performed hammertoe corrections and none of his turned out badly like that. Their surgical result was nice straight - and for a change - painfree toes. It sounds like your surgeon did not perform the procedure correctly or something else went very wrong but our patients toes did not hurt any more once they had correction and the great deformity gone. Oh, they still might have some arthritis in the non-operated joints. So, maybe, done correctly, declawing is not painful in cats or dogs, once they heal from surgery.

:eek: No I was just pointing out my hypocrisy here...but I really like your points here.

LOL old hippie-organic planet or henna hair dye!

But strange to me (not pointing at anyone here there just everywhere) we balk about this with our dogs but maybe not our kids?:confused:

Anywho that was just my whole dime on some food for thought


I do think buster brown should see another Dr. IO'm worried about your feet!

I forget who was teasing me about the Yorkie tatooe saying it says, " I love my mom call her at ###-###-###"
I was like seriously a heart with mom and wth if your phone # changes!?! I totally was lost on that!

On the same note, I've always found it kind of ironic on the breeding threads, how much careful attention it paid to who our dogs breed with, but many humans seem nilly-willy about who they themselves produce offspring with.

I guess Im one of the those people that are cruel to thier kids and animals then, because, I had ALL 3 of my baby girls ears done when they were 3 months old and my son was circumsized as a infant, I have 3 cats, 2 of which are front only declawed (my vet only does the fronts) and I also have a a toy poodle and yorkie mix that both have their tails docked and dew claws removed. I choose to have Tuckers done as I had full control over what happened to him as I picked him out at 1 day old. I personally feel that dogs that are suppose to have docked tails, should have docked tails.
My girls have had no long lasting effects of thier ears being peicerd not even so much an infection and they still wear earings on a regular basis. My 2 cats had no trouble what so ever with thier declawing as I had it done when they were kittens, they came home the next day, they healed great and have had no long lasting effects. They are indoor cats only. I dont regret having done one bit. The cat that isnt declawed has torn up couches, walls, wooden bed furniture etc, despite all the "training", nail clipping and scratching devices I have tried. Ive had her for 5 years, she is part of the family and I have no intentions of getting rid of her, I just deal with tore up stuff..:/ and replace it often. I wont have her declawed now because of her older age, I have heard that the healing time is much harder on them. SO I guess Im not that cruel after all.
I wouldnt have any of my dogs declawed,just done see the purpose in it. Im very thankful that my dogs let me, my vet and groomer clip thier nails without any trouble. Sorry if I seem a little off in this post but I love my children and animals very much, my life revolves my whole family and I dont think that the things that I have choosen to do to my kids or animals has cruel.

Actually, there is a big difference. While I do not like docking tails either, at least it causes pain for all of, what, 10 seconds? And then they are fine, have no more affects. Dewclawing is a surgical procedure, and a painful one at that, with recovery time. There's a difference. But like I said, I do not like tail docking either. I find it to be completely unnecessary and pointless and purely cosmetic. There's a reason it's banned in other countries, as is dewclawing.

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Lol, if dogs were supposed to have docked tails, they would be born with them docked, right?

We humans decided dogs need docked tails. And back then, it WAS for a reason. Terriers went under and hunted vermin and the tails would get in the way or a rat could bite onto it, etc. Makes sense back then. How many of us today are breeding Yorkies to be ratters? I am assuming, like, none. I just would only do certain things for a reason.

I don't really care about people who choose to do things to themselves. I don't have any piercings or tattoos, but I have nothing against those who do. They chose to do it to themselves and that's all fine with me, I'm pretty open minded.

It's not really even so much that the animals don't "get a choice" or anything, because they are animals... and pets... they don't really get a choice about a lot they do. We choose what they eat, when they eat, when they potty, etc, so it's not really even about that to ME. I just find certain procedures completely unnecessary, it's kind of like, why even bother? I find spaying and neutering, for example, to be necessary in the society we live in. Others don't spay and neuter their pets, and I am fine with that, so long as they are responsible with it. There are health benefits to leaving in tact as well.

But, just because I don't like tail docking, doesn't mean I won't own a dog with a docked tail. I happen to like a lot of terriers, who often have docked tails, but I will do my best to have my next dog have his tail just out of personal preference. I do get that we as humans care about cosmetics. I wouldn't own or seek out a dog that I find to be unattractive, I am admitting that. So I get the appeal of course in preferring one look over the other. But it doesn't take away the fact that I think it's a completely pointless procedure. And I always see people trying to pull the "it has health benefits" thing when it comes to docking tails.... I just wish people would admit it's just purely cosmetic and they simply like the look better. Nothing WRONG with that.

Since cats and dogs are two totally different species who use their paws/claws in completely different ways, I personally don't understand how they can be compared or even to the finger nails of humans, not at all the same. But that's me.

That said, cat's have a need to hone their nails which is the reason they scratch. As cat owners are being educated on this, there is less of a need to have cats declawed because cats do develope a preference on what and where they like to scrach/hone their nails. If no other alternatives are provided they will choose their own honing spot, or your furniture. If you provide various types of scratching posts with different textures, you will find something that suits them and they will leave your furniture alone. Adult rehomed cats may present a bigger challenge however in redirecting their desires for honing their nails.

Just as a clarification, cats do not only scratch to take care of their claws. I understand why some might find declawing to be a natural solution if that were the case. But the motion of clawing also helps a cat stretch various muscles in the back and shoulders. That need is going to remain regardless of whether you declaw the animal or not. (Even folks with declawed cats should see their cats looking like they are clawing things. That's why.) It's necessary for their well being. As the previous poster said, it's a matter of finding what your cat prefers to scratch on and then teaching them to use it. How hard they are to teach really depends on your cat's existing habits and personality. But then, that's the same as with any animal (including humans!).

More Confessions :D All of my sons are circumsized. When my sons were born, not being a man, I ask their daddy what we should do. He said of course we should have them circumsized, so we did.
This was a good thread and it made us think and share our views, that is how we learn new things.
Like hugz4all4, I love my children, grandchildren, and animals and I am not cruel at all. Some of what we said was poking fun at ourselves. What I said in my first post is still true. So much of what we beleive is cultural and life experience based. As a very wise person warned: If you want to get along with people perfectly, never talk about anything important. Where were we ..... ? Oh um, I would not declaw a dog.

All this lasting pain cats have and then not using the litter box because of the declawing I sorry i just didnt see it with my cats and I had 5 of them declawed. They lived happy healthy indoor cat lives. Thats all I have to say. I dont think someone is selfish either because they dont want their furniture clawed up. There are alot of cats in shelters so do I think it is better for them to live a declawed life or end up euthanized at a shelter yes I do.