I really do not understand why the Parti and the Biewer just can't accept what they are and go on from there, A breed unto themself!
Many test have been done by the YTCA and several independent breeders in the US, and Yorkies DO NOT carry the piebald gene! Simple.
A Parti and a Biewer having that much white MUST have the peibald gene!
Sparklingbluyorkies.com

From what I understand, that is exactly the stance of the Biewer club of AMerica. They want them recognized as a breed unto themselves, a Biewer Terrier. Which tells me they are more along the track of a true fancier once they realized they do not have a rare or different colour yorkie.
No reputable breeder of any breed of purebred dog would breed for anything other than what their breed standard outlines. As a show breeder, I know breeders with other breeds, they are true fanciers of their breed and they are utterly horrified when some fools come up with what they consider to be rare anomolies of their particular breed.

It so funny about the biewer being proven its not a yorkie, Their so called proof comprised of lying and cross bred dogs they received from Germany. I know of some biewers that have been tested and they test Pure Yorkie.
If you believe the tests that they did on the biewers are true then the tests we did on the partis that came back as pure yorkshire terrier are true. The YTCA just wants the tri colors gone from the yorkies and they will back anyone that says they are not yorkies, The club that states the biewers are not yorkies is know for their underhanded and ruthless tactics to other biewer breeders, clubs and associations. The President and her sidekick have been banned for life from showing because of their crooked ways. The president of that club pretended to be a Veterinarian to get the biewers tested per say. If the YTCA wants to back a club like that , more power to them. Thats a real club to believe in isn't it?
As for Joans tri -color and you saying you are in the know, and that you wont say anything, could it be because you know it is true that yorkies can be born tri-colored. Why did she register him AKC if he was not a yorkie? Wildweir and the Gordon sisters were The Yorkshire Terrier, that was their life. So do you honestly think Joan and Jan would have registered a mix as a yorkie especially a tri color one? Never in a million years!!!!!!!

What tests has the YTCA done? Where is the Proof? They have produced no such evidence of any testing because there was no testing for Piebald gene until recently.

Then WHY doesnt anyone answer the question if that is true, WHY did Joan Gordon state in her books that Yorkshire Terriers can be born ""all black: all tan: tan with black points; tri-color: black, white, and tan; all blue; bluish grey with tan points;
Did She just make this up and put it in her book??????

Yes, you are correct, the parti and Biewer carry the piebald gene, if early historical and present day writings are correct and the Maltese was introduced in the mid - late 1800's in order to lengthen the coats of Scotch terriers, than half of the dogs from crosses like these, would carry the piebald gene (the maltese displays the maximum expression of the piebald gene).

Could you please tell us what tests have been done by the YTCA and independent breeders in the US, that verifies that the Yorkshire terrier does not carry the piebald gene? Not all yorkies nor all lines of yorkies carry the piebald gene ... just as not all yorkies carry the gene that causes the black coat to turn the desired dark steel blue.

There are 2 ways that I know of, to determine if a yorkie carries the piebald gene and that's either a test breeding to a parti yorkie to see if it produces a parti color or to have the dog coat color tested through DNA, and that test was only recently made available.

Please see the attached scanned page from the 1945 The Complete Dog Book put out by AKC. Early authorities thought that it was "doubtful that the early yorkshire terriers could be traced back to common ancestors" and that "it would be unreasonable to suppose that all breeders used the same crosses." It seems that today's breeders know differently and they are certain, that there was never a dog with white or white genes used in the infancy of this breed. I guess they didn't have recessive genes back then? :rolleyes:

Interesting information, though. Never knew some of this and it is fascinating reading!!! The first Yorkie book I ever owned was by Joan Gordon and her sister. I practically used to sleep with that book I read it so much. Isn't there a cartoon in that book entitled "Nicely Worked" or something like that?

I am more than willing to try once again yet again, more and more times to try to explain the world of purebred dogs comprised of true purebred fanciers.
If you think tri colour yorkies and/or wrong colour yorkies are the first time people who do not understand the world of purebreds came up with a new idea you are so wrong.
About 30 years ago, a guy was trying to promote black and white German shorthaired pointers and yes the GSP does carry the gene to produce them. The GSP fanciers drummed him out and he disappeared from the show world. no, black and whites were not culled they were given away to good pet homes.
About 10 years ago a Sharpei breeder was trying to promote Toy sharpeis' which were undersized sharpei's even trying showing them.
This person was drummed out by the fanciers to disappear from the show world.
Recently the Canadian Chihuahua club has taken a stand on Merle Chi's They are not only not recognized, the club has petitioned the CKC to have them not registerable. Not sure where that stands right now.
The Pug club is dealing with some that are trying brindle pugs which colour is not carried in the breed at all.
So maybe those who are not purebred dog fanciers on this forum now understands the YTCA are not the first parent club to take a stand to preserve their breed under the breed standard.
And I reiterate once again, no purebred fancier of any breed will purposely promote or try to produce any dog or puppy without the breed standard in mind that they are striving to live up to that standard.
What is so complicated wtih being a true purebred breed fancier?
I am very well aware I am wasting my time trying to explain the purebred fancier world to those that have chosen that a breed standard means nothing.
However, my bet from PM's I get, there are many who realize what I am saying sure does make a lot of sense.
Now if you will all excuse me, I have a very busy week this week and you all have fun arguing that black is white or is that tricolour? LOL

If you want to be in the know of the Yorkie world, become a show breeder, fancier of the breed in all sense of the word. Then you will know about what happened when where.

Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain! The Great and all Powerful
OZ has spoken...

Diana :animal-pa

No, no, not a war, just an educational debate so everyone can see both sides of the story and decide for themselves :)

You didn't start a war, only resurrected a continuing debate. If not you, another would have eventually came along and asked the same question. This debate happens every few months or so and it's not likely to change any time soon.:rolleyes:

Thank You.. yes, some of the dogs have what some call a modified silk coat.. some coats are more "cottony" and not a nice silk at all.. just like some traditional yokie coats. It's a work in process, along with everything else. We started focusing on health first, then comes structure, face, ear set.. etc.. coat is certainly on the list of things we need to work on..it's like a big puzzle, trying to decide what pieces to put where and in what order. I think the Biewers have come along way especially in their coats, we are seeing some much nicer coats in recent generations.. much more silk.. much less cotton.. of course, we're never satisfied.. who ever is! LOL

Thanks again..

Diana :animal-pa