I am the worst mom ever

[SoSoNYC1]

Amen! Thank you Dee! =)

[cally930]

Well obviously OP you do not have to come on here and tell anybody anything. Its your dog and you are going to do what you have your mind set on doing. It really appears from your original post that you are looking forward to cute puppies, and you came on here looking for sympathy and support for when your little girl goes into labor, but please, please consider what all these experienced breeders have already said - before its too late. They truly, truly know more than your vet (about breeding and whelping a yorkie)!!!!

Again - I wish you and your little girl only the best.

[tjwarder]

it's common sense not to leave a female in heat anywhere

One would think. But there are many things people do (or fail to do) that should be common sense but are not simply because of ignorance ~ real, "I just never knew" ignorance, not doing something one knows to be stupid, foolish or risky. Seems as though that is the reason there initially was so much support and kindness in this thread - those with more experience seemed to recognize that OP honestly did not think the very young male would be a problem and did not condemn her mistake. As a newbie to YT, I have read hours and hours of past threads, and other than the one post that observed that OP was online but unresponsive, NONE of the comments were rude or anything less than supportive and helpful. Even that one observation was not rude, hateful or mean. A bit wry, not 'supportive' or kind, but not mean. Trust me, I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands of comments here the past few weeks, and there definitely have been some sharp, personal attacks toward posters who admit mistakes, question or disagree with the majority ~ just not this time. In one, I eventually used the "ignore" function for two over-the-top, albeit experienced and knowledgeable YTers (I've since 'un-ignored' so my pup can reap the benefit of their wisdom when they are not upset and outraged ). While I did not see anything unkind prior to OP's 'I'm so upset' response, I guess her feelings are her own and she's entitled to feel as she does . . . but an FYI, OP: the "ignore" feature is easily applied to anyone you do not wish to hear from, whether it is one person or many. Might I suggest that you use it to save yourself from any further upset while continuing to read and consider (and perhaps reply) to those who have only offered their opinions and experience without condemning you. This is how it works: suppose you decide that I am mean or just trying to bait you - put me on "ignore" then post away and discuss what is happening with the rest of the board. Sure, I (or whoever you ignore) will see your post and may fire off yet another missive that you will find offensive . . . but those words will be blocked from your view and you do not have to choose to read and engage (or escalate) the drama. Don't stay away or only return to post your own angst and anger ~ stick around and ask your questions, and be respectful of those who have offered advice and support, even if you disagree or dislike the advice given. In your original post, you knew this unfortunate event was a problem. Those who have tried to help would like to know how this turns out, no matter what you decide, and their wisdom could very well help you and your pup through a very difficult and risky situation.

Sorry so long, but as another newbie with more ignorance than wisdom, I do have one very important admission and question to those with experience.

it's common sense not to leave a female in heat anywhere

I truly did not know, or rather, just never had reason to think about that before. Yes, I did know that if a female is in heat, you should not allow her to be around male dogs and not allow her to be out roaming around where she could encounter other dogs. But I've never had a dog in heat before - each dog we've ever owned was either spayed/neutered beforehand or we promptly had it done ASAP. We planned to do that with our new rescue, Sugar Bear. Vet told us that she should have all vaccinations since we had no history on her and gave us the following time table: shots -> wait 3 weeks -> booster shot -> wait 2 weeks -> spay. She also had an ear infection and inflamed tonsils so he put her on meds and said to delay the booster until she finished them. That is where we are at now -- one round of shots, no booster yet and no spay . . . and I think she may be in heat. Don't really know, since I've never had one in heat, and don't know (despite my good friend, Google) how to determine the stage of heat if she is in it. Large (fenced) male dog next door seems especially whiny when she is outside and she had a 2-day bout of diarrhea and left one drop of blood near an accident indoors.

Assuming she is in heat, am I correct that we should NOT take her to board/train for the two weeks we will be traveling later this month? If we should not leave a female (possibly) in heat anywhere, then this would be a bad idea, right ~ possibly putting us in the sad position of the OP. Is there a way to specifically determine if she is at risk, or should we just look for Plan B or C just to be safe? I do not want to take risks with her, and am grateful that so many of you responded with information to this thread - you provided an education and may have prevented a similar (ignorant) mistake. Sugar Bear and I thank you all.

[Bitsy]

My recommendation for you (tjwarder) is to go with plan b or c. Since she is not spayed yet she is at great risk of getting pregnant...even under watchful care. Maybe you can have someone some to your house or take her to a house where there are no unaltered males around. Btw, welcome to Yorkie Talk.

Originally Posted by tjwarder

One would think. But there are many things people do (or fail to do) that should be common sense but are not simply because of ignorance ~ real, "I just never knew" ignorance, not doing something one knows to be stupid, foolish or risky. Seems as though that is the reason there initially was so much support and kindness in this thread - those with more experience seemed to recognize that OP honestly did not think the very young male would be a problem and did not condemn her mistake. As a newbie to YT, I have read hours and hours of past threads, and other than the one post that observed that OP was online but unresponsive, NONE of the comments were rude or anything less than supportive and helpful. Even that one observation was not rude, hateful or mean. A bit wry, not 'supportive' or kind, but not mean. Trust me, I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands of comments here the past few weeks, and there definitely have been some sharp, personal attacks toward posters who admit mistakes, question or disagree with the majority ~ just not this time. In one, I eventually used the "ignore" function for two over-the-top, albeit experienced and knowledgeable YTers (I've since 'un-ignored' so my pup can reap the benefit of their wisdom when they are not upset and outraged ). While I did not see anything unkind prior to OP's 'I'm so upset' response, I guess her feelings are her own and she's entitled to feel as she does . . . but an FYI, OP: the "ignore" feature is easily applied to anyone you do not wish to hear from, whether it is one person or many. Might I suggest that you use it to save yourself from any further upset while continuing to read and consider (and perhaps reply) to those who have only offered their opinions and experience without condemning you. This is how it works: suppose you decide that I am mean or just trying to bait you - put me on "ignore" then post away and discuss what is happening with the rest of the board. Sure, I (or whoever you ignore) will see your post and may fire off yet another missive that you will find offensive . . . but those words will be blocked from your view and you do not have to choose to read and engage (or escalate) the drama. Don't stay away or only return to post your own angst and anger ~ stick around and ask your questions, and be respectful of those who have offered advice and support, even if you disagree or dislike the advice given. In your original post, you knew this unfortunate event was a problem. Those who have tried to help would like to know how this turns out, no matter what you decide, and their wisdom could very well help you and your pup through a very difficult and risky situation.

Sorry so long, but as another newbie with more ignorance than wisdom, I do have one very important admission and question to those with experience.



I truly did not know, or rather, just never had reason to think about that before. Yes, I did know that if a female is in heat, you should not allow her to be around male dogs and not allow her to be out roaming around where she could encounter other dogs. But I've never had a dog in heat before - each dog we've ever owned was either spayed/neutered beforehand or we promptly had it done ASAP. We planned to do that with our new rescue, Sugar Bear. Vet told us that she should have all vaccinations since we had no history on her and gave us the following time table: shots -> wait 3 weeks -> booster shot -> wait 2 weeks -> spay. She also had an ear infection and inflamed tonsils so he put her on meds and said to delay the booster until she finished them. That is where we are at now -- one round of shots, no booster yet and no spay . . . and I think she may be in heat. Don't really know, since I've never had one in heat, and don't know (despite my good friend, Google) how to determine the stage of heat if she is in it. Large (fenced) male dog next door seems especially whiny when she is outside and she had a 2-day bout of diarrhea and left one drop of blood near an accident indoors.

Assuming she is in heat, am I correct that we should NOT take her to board/train for the two weeks we will be traveling later this month? If we should not leave a female (possibly) in heat anywhere, then this would be a bad idea, right ~ possibly putting us in the sad position of the OP. Is there a way to specifically determine if she is at risk, or should we just look for Plan B or C just to be safe? I do not want to take risks with her, and am grateful that so many of you responded with information to this thread - you provided an education and may have prevented a similar (ignorant) mistake. Sugar Bear and I thank you all.

[tjwarder]

Thank you Bitsy. Is there a definitive way to know for sure if she is in heat and if so, how far along? I am working on a Plan C (getting someone to come to the house) but it doesn't look promising. Plan B would be to either (b)(1) Board her at the vet or (b)(2) Have her spayed and boarded at the vet while we are gone. Boarding without spaying could have almost as much risk as the training school. Probably fewer dogs and more control there, but no guarantee. It would be 'easy' (logistically) to have the spay done and all her recovery at the vets, but it makes my heart hurt to just leave her, not know if she's okay, and not be there to reassure her afterwards. I don't know if she needs that, perhaps that would work well, but none of the options 'feel' right. Even being gone doesn't feel right, but it is unavoidable and it was better that we accepted her when we did rather than leaving her in a bad situation. Even though we love our local vet, and he has always provided competent and compassionate care for our previous (much larger) pets, I would like her to be seen by a vet who specializes in small breeds. A Dallas vet has been recommended here, and if we spay/board then I would want to have it done at his facility. Any other things I should consider? Sorry for so many words, I know you are not my priest, manicurist or bartender . I'm just very glad I happened to read this thread and realized that taking her to the obedience school (unspayed) was a very bad idea.

[katy-yorkie]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I love those blinking little eyes in your Avatar. First time I saw that out of the corner of my eye I jumped, then laughed out loud.

Not to get off the subject, I had to look twice! I thought old age had finally gotten me.

[Bitsy]

You are welcome....I just wanted to suggest that you start a new thread for this where you can get more suggestions and expert opinions. Good luck and I'm so glad you did a rescue.

Originally Posted by tjwarder

Thank you Bitsy. Is there a definitive way to know for sure if she is in heat and if so, how far along? I am working on a Plan C (getting someone to come to the house) but it doesn't look promising. Plan B would be to either (b)(1) Board her at the vet or (b)(2) Have her spayed and boarded at the vet while we are gone. Boarding without spaying could have almost as much risk as the training school. Probably fewer dogs and more control there, but no guarantee. It would be 'easy' (logistically) to have the spay done and all her recovery at the vets, but it makes my heart hurt to just leave her, not know if she's okay, and not be there to reassure her afterwards. I don't know if she needs that, perhaps that would work well, but none of the options 'feel' right. Even being gone doesn't feel right, but it is unavoidable and it was better that we accepted her when we did rather than leaving her in a bad situation. Even though we love our local vet, and he has always provided competent and compassionate care for our previous (much larger) pets, I would like her to be seen by a vet who specializes in small breeds. A Dallas vet has been recommended here, and if we spay/board then I would want to have it done at his facility. Any other things I should consider? Sorry for so many words, I know you are not my priest, manicurist or bartender . I'm just very glad I happened to read this thread and realized that taking her to the obedience school (unspayed) was a very bad idea.

[RachelandSadie]

updates please??? i really am just concerned. not trying to be mean or nasty. just wondering how Miss Baby Bee is doing and what you have decided.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by tjwarder

Thank you Bitsy. Is there a definitive way to know for sure if she is in heat and if so, how far along? I am working on a Plan C (getting someone to come to the house) but it doesn't look promising. Plan B would be to either (b)(1) Board her at the vet or (b)(2) Have her spayed and boarded at the vet while we are gone. Boarding without spaying could have almost as much risk as the training school. Probably fewer dogs and more control there, but no guarantee. It would be 'easy' (logistically) to have the spay done and all her recovery at the vets, but it makes my heart hurt to just leave her, not know if she's okay, and not be there to reassure her afterwards. I don't know if she needs that, perhaps that would work well, but none of the options 'feel' right. Even being gone doesn't feel right, but it is unavoidable and it was better that we accepted her when we did rather than leaving her in a bad situation. Even though we love our local vet, and he has always provided competent and compassionate care for our previous (much larger) pets, I would like her to be seen by a vet who specializes in small breeds. A Dallas vet has been recommended here, and if we spay/board then I would want to have it done at his facility. Any other things I should consider? Sorry for so many words, I know you are not my priest, manicurist or bartender . I'm just very glad I happened to read this thread and realized that taking her to the obedience school (unspayed) was a very bad idea.

I don't think Doc Hawthorne boards.....but, he is a geat vet.


Here's the heat cycle.........

Total 21 days (but I keep my hormonally imbalanced girls seperated for a period of one month).

1. Week 1; known as coming into Season (7 days). Female begins to swell and turn pink. Probably has been acting a bit coquettish for a couple of weeks and had a ravenous appietite.

2. Week 2;known as Showing Color (7 days). This is when she begins to bleed; starting a light pink and as each day passes it does get bright red. Keep in mind you may not always see color; yorkies bleed minimally. But, if you take a tissue and press it to her as soon as she urinates...you will be able to spot the color.

3. Week 3;known as going out (7 days). This is when she is receptive to the male and can concieve. Danger time....no males, however, each female is different, some ovulate earlier and can be fertile in week one or 2...and even in week four....so best to keep the girl away from all boys four one month...

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by katy-yorkie

Not to get off the subject, I had to look twice! I thought old age had finally gotten me.

Ha! No kidding! Now I want blinking eyes or a barking mouth for Tibbe in my Avatar!!! Or, Tibbe could turn around in circles - that would be cute. hehehe

[Evie the evil]

My two cents ...for what it is worth.

1) I believe that what took place between Lauren's little bee and the larger young male was not accidental. My theory it was intentional. It isn't like anyone .. even inexperienced isn't going to know when their bitch is in heat.

2) I believe the story about "accidental" was made up in an attempt to avoid chastisment for what the OP would know YT members would feel was careless and irresponsible.

3) OP then came to YT with her "story" hoping to hear.." well, whats done is done.. lets talk about your cute puppies. I believe the OP's thought process shows a level of immaturity on many levels. I don't believe she has been out in the real world for long..if this situation has her missing work. This is the selfish act of a child wanting their own way and when they don't hear and get what they wanted.. they throw a fit and tell you that you are being mean. I know that is what my children tell me when they don't get their way... but again... this is just my two cents.. and I am new to the site..so what do I know?

[Bitsy]

Sadly, you may be 100% right. I too had the same thoughts, but was truly trying to give the benefit of the doubt and be supportive...in hopes that she would see that what she did was so very wrong and try to remedy it. Based on her responses, it just makes me think my initial thought was right. (I honestly said what you said to my husband almost word per word.)

Originally Posted by Evie the evil

My two cents ...for what it is worth.

1) I believe that what took place between Lauren's little bee and the larger young male was not accidental. My theory it was intentional. It isn't like anyone .. even inexperienced isn't going to know when their bitch is in heat.

2) I believe the story about "accidental" was made up in an attempt to avoid chastisment for what the OP would know YT members would feel was careless and irresponsible.

3) OP then came to YT with her "story" hoping to hear.." well, whats done is done.. lets talk about your cute puppies. I believe the OP's thought process shows a level of immaturity on many levels. I don't believe she has been out in the real world for long..if this situation has her missing work. This is the selfish act of a child wanting their own way and when they don't hear and get what they wanted.. they throw a fit and tell you that you are being mean. I know that is what my children tell me when they don't get their way... but again... this is just my two cents.. and I am new to the site..so what do I know?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Evie the evil

My two cents ...for what it is worth.

1) I believe that what took place between Lauren's little bee and the larger young male was not accidental. My theory it was intentional. It isn't like anyone .. even inexperienced isn't going to know when their bitch is in heat.

2) I believe the story about "accidental" was made up in an attempt to avoid chastisment for what the OP would know YT members would feel was careless and irresponsible.

3) OP then came to YT with her "story" hoping to hear.." well, whats done is done.. lets talk about your cute puppies. I believe the OP's thought process shows a level of immaturity on many levels. I don't believe she has been out in the real world for long..if this situation has her missing work. This is the selfish act of a child wanting their own way and when they don't hear and get what they wanted.. they throw a fit and tell you that you are being mean. I know that is what my children tell me when they don't get their way... but again... this is just my two cents.. and I am new to the site..so what do I know?

Mmmm come to think of it most of the younger, newbie members do respond in the manner you described.....Never put the two together....

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by tjwarder

One would think. But there are many things people do (or fail to do) that should be common sense but are not simply because of ignorance ~ real, "I just never knew" ignorance, not doing something one knows to be stupid, foolish or risky. Seems as though that is the reason there initially was so much support and kindness in this thread - those with more experience seemed to recognize that OP honestly did not think the very young male would be a problem and did not condemn her mistake. As a newbie to YT, I have read hours and hours of past threads, and other than the one post that observed that OP was online but unresponsive, NONE of the comments were rude or anything less than supportive and helpful. Even that one observation was not rude, hateful or mean. A bit wry, not 'supportive' or kind, but not mean. Trust me, I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands of comments here the past few weeks, and there definitely have been some sharp, personal attacks toward posters who admit mistakes, question or disagree with the majority ~ just not this time. In one, I eventually used the "ignore" function for two over-the-top, albeit experienced and knowledgeable YTers (I've since 'un-ignored' so my pup can reap the benefit of their wisdom when they are not upset and outraged ). While I did not see anything unkind prior to OP's 'I'm so upset' response, I guess her feelings are her own and she's entitled to feel as she does . . . but an FYI, OP: the "ignore" feature is easily applied to anyone you do not wish to hear from, whether it is one person or many. Might I suggest that you use it to save yourself from any further upset while continuing to read and consider (and perhaps reply) to those who have only offered their opinions and experience without condemning you. This is how it works: suppose you decide that I am mean or just trying to bait you - put me on "ignore" then post away and discuss what is happening with the rest of the board. Sure, I (or whoever you ignore) will see your post and may fire off yet another missive that you will find offensive . . . but those words will be blocked from your view and you do not have to choose to read and engage (or escalate) the drama. Don't stay away or only return to post your own angst and anger ~ stick around and ask your questions, and be respectful of those who have offered advice and support, even if you disagree or dislike the advice given. In your original post, you knew this unfortunate event was a problem. Those who have tried to help would like to know how this turns out, no matter what you decide, and their wisdom could very well help you and your pup through a very difficult and risky situation.

Sorry so long, but as another newbie with more ignorance than wisdom, I do have one very important admission and question to those with experience.



I truly did not know, or rather, just never had reason to think about that before. Yes, I did know that if a female is in heat, you should not allow her to be around male dogs and not allow her to be out roaming around where she could encounter other dogs. But I've never had a dog in heat before - each dog we've ever owned was either spayed/neutered beforehand or we promptly had it done ASAP. We planned to do that with our new rescue, Sugar Bear. Vet told us that she should have all vaccinations since we had no history on her and gave us the following time table: shots -> wait 3 weeks -> booster shot -> wait 2 weeks -> spay. She also had an ear infection and inflamed tonsils so he put her on meds and said to delay the booster until she finished them. That is where we are at now -- one round of shots, no booster yet and no spay . . . and I think she may be in heat. Don't really know, since I've never had one in heat, and don't know (despite my good friend, Google) how to determine the stage of heat if she is in it. Large (fenced) male dog next door seems especially whiny when she is outside and she had a 2-day bout of diarrhea and left one drop of blood near an accident indoors.

Assuming she is in heat, am I correct that we should NOT take her to board/train for the two weeks we will be traveling later this month? If we should not leave a female (possibly) in heat anywhere, then this would be a bad idea, right ~ possibly putting us in the sad position of the OP. Is there a way to specifically determine if she is at risk, or should we just look for Plan B or C just to be safe? I do not want to take risks with her, and am grateful that so many of you responded with information to this thread - you provided an education and may have prevented a similar (ignorant) mistake. Sugar Bear and I thank you all.

I would look into having someone come to your house- have you looked into the Fetch! company- they have franchises all over the country, this is who I use when I am away. We have a wonderful sitter through them, who I trust my kids with as much as I trust myself, she is amazing. They offer a free consult, where you will meet the sitter, discuss your needs, etc. If you don't like the sitter, you are under no obligation to use them. Here is the website: Welcome to Fetch! Pet Care - Dog Walking, Pet Sitting, Dog Boarding, Cat Sitting by Fetch! Pet Care you can check and see if they are in your area. Another option may be your vet, they may not take a dog in heat but if they are willing to- they are probably best equipped to know how not to let the dog get pregnant.

[tjwarder]

Thank you. I used your link to Fetch, but the closest location is more than 50 miles away. I don't think they will want to make two 100-mile round trips a day to come out and check on her .

On Bitsy's suggestion, I did start a new thread so this is now a duplicate. I apologize for highjacking and any etiquette errors. To keep this short so we can all get back to wondering how Bree and her mom are doing, the rest of my Q&A is under 'OK To Spay & Board with Vet for 2 Weeks?' . Thank you all.