Guide to Finding a Reputable Breeder - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

AMD · 03-26-2011, 11:15 AM

In the event of refund/exchange, puppy must be returned to seller's ownership, uninjured and free of communicable disease along with all paperwork, signed to return puppy to seller's ownership. Puppy must have had proper care at all times. A $45 processing fee will apply and will be withheld from purchase price.

Why should the buyer be charged a processing fee for the seller's provision of an unhealthy dog? How can a puppy with health problems serious enough to come under the provisions of this "warranty" be returned "uninjured" And as stated earlier requirements to return the puppy are the seller's biggest protection against actually being held responsible for selling sickly puppies.

A guarantee from a responsible breeder will cover any problem shown to be genetic, and a responsible breeder will not require return of the puppy. The responsible breeder will show concern, will investigate further (e.g. checking on the other litter members), will normally refund the purchase price (depending upon severity of the problem) and even contribute to costs of treatment.

At no time will seller's liability exceed the original purchase price of pup, shipping fees excluded, nor be liable for any consequential damages of any sort including vet fees.

This limitation isn't even legal in some states, but when a buyer chooses to purchase long distance they usually end up with the laws in that distant state, not their own.

Buyer has read and understands that a puppy is a commitment, and that allergies, family problems, landlord disputes, behavioral problems, etc. do no constitute grounds for refund/exchange. Seller has first right of refusal.

A responsible breeder takes great care to interview the buyer, and to follow up on important issues such as landlord agreement to the pet, support and advice to avoid behavior issues etc. Second the last thing a responsible breeder would do is refuse to protect a puppy from their breeding from ending up in a shelter or unsuitable home. When the dog is still a puppy, and still placeable as a puppy, the responsible breeder will provide a full refund simply to ensure the safety of the puppy. At later ages when placement becomes more of a challenge the responsible breeder will still require notification and an opportunity to take the dog back. The responsible breeder will take steps to keep in contact with the buyer to try to avoid any of these issues from becoming a problem for the dog.

Here are some provisions from a different seller's warranty

If the puppy described above expires from distemper, parvo, corona, hepatitis or leptospirosis after 14 days of purchase, Seller will replace the puppy with another puppy of equal value. Seller will get a second opinion at its own expense and will require up to date vaccination records. The selection of a replacement puppy must be made within 6 months of the buyers claim.

Under these terms if your pet dies you are entitled only to a replacement. So if your puppy comes down with parvo and you successfully treat it you are, according to the "guarantee" entitled to nothing at all. The 14 day limit is also too limiting as there are related complicating conditions that can kill after that period.

A responsible breeder will do better than that, and some lemon laws also require quite a bit more.

Source:
Getting a Dog Tips - Reading your puppy guarantee

Wylie's Mom · 03-26-2011, 01:55 PM

INCREDIBLE job, Alyssa! This info will be useful for so many people. There is a permanent copy in the Library too

!

lisaly · 03-26-2011, 04:29 PM

I haven't finished reading all of this yet, but I intend to do so. What you have prepared is really wonderful, and I can't thank you enough for giving of your time so freely to help others with this. This is very information is very valuable.

Nancy1999 · 03-26-2011, 04:40 PM

Great job, I think this is so helpful in letting someone know how to choose a good breeder. This isn't something that should be done spur of the moment and I suggest reading this and letting it digest a little and then reading it again. People talk about doing your homework first, and reading this and really understanding what it says can get you an A+ in that important task of choosing a breeder. Also, I think it would be very helpful to breeders who would like to improve their breeding programs. Thank you for taking the time to do this, I know you had to read about a million sites and then organize everything you found, and this will be helpful no matter what breed you're buying! I think your work here shows that you really love the breed! You don't just "talk" about it, you show it!

DvlshAngel985 · 03-26-2011, 05:56 PM

WOW! That seems thorough. I will definitely use this like a checklist when the time comes to add another to our family.

AMD · 03-26-2011, 06:51 PM

Thank you! There's alot of great info to choose from and it does take a long time to sift through but if it helps to guide anybody to a good breeder, it is time well spent. I hope that I've provided a good overview. I know it's quite lengthy, but hope it is helpful for anybody looking for a puppy.

gemy · 03-27-2011, 04:39 AM

Thanks Alyssa, I didn't get to compliment you for the very thorough work you did, but my only suggestion was to incorporate through either a Nb or an ** YT related health issues, in the articles that were more breed specific.
Also you could add in the websites for OFA and CHIC and CERF.

AMD · 03-27-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy

Thanks Alyssa, I didn't get to compliment you for the very thorough work you did, but my only suggestion was to incorporate through either a Nb or an ** YT related health issues, in the articles that were more breed specific.
Also you could add in the websites for OFA and CHIC and CERF.

Thank You! Those are great suggestions. I'm working on getting more health information and will post links to OFA, CERF, and CHIC.

I'm wondering what page (post) would that be best for?

Okay pardon my ignorance but what is Nb? LOL

Gennies · 03-27-2011, 06:19 AM

Amazing job!!!! I love the link to the puppy lemon laws too!!!! Still so sad to see how many states don't have them and how many (hmmmm VA) have such crappy one. Thank you!!!!!!!

megansmomma · 03-27-2011, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMD

Thank you! There's alot of great info to choose from and it does take a long time to sift through but if it helps to guide anybody to a good breeder, it is time well spent. I hope that I've provided a good overview. I know it's quite lengthy, but hope it is helpful for anybody looking for a puppy.

IMO the most useful, through, thread I have personally read on YT

Thank you so much for taking the time to put all of this information together as a useful tool to anyone looking to purchase a puppy.

In addition, it might help someone thinking they might like to breed just one to analyze their intentions for their need to breed. So many time people join YT looking for answers to this very question and there are so many other members who try to express in a few short sentences why they should not consider breeding. Then someone else will come along adding to that post and then another making it overwhelming for the person with the question.

The same with trying to quickly explain to someone with questions about a breeder. How wonderful to be able to direct that person and their questions to these articles! The information is very straight forward and very well broken down.

Thank you again for taking the time to research, read and to this information together in one comprehensive thread.

gemy · 03-27-2011, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMD

Thank You! Those are great suggestions. I'm working on getting more health information and will post links to OFA, CERF, and CHIC.

I'm wondering what page (post) would that be best for?

Okay pardon my ignorance but what is Nb? LOL

Teehee I had to look it up : here is from Wikipedia

Nota bene is an Italian and Latin phrase meaning "note well". The phrase first appeared in writing circa 1721. Often abbreviated as "N.B.", nota bene comes

In terms of pages I'd put it on the first page that speaks to health concerns of a particular breed.
Truly though I think the health concerns of Yorkies deserve an entire page to themselves.

Maybe the ** within the article could say: reference Yorkshire Terrier Breed specific health concerns.

AMD · 03-27-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megansmomma

IMO the most useful, through, thread I have personally read on YT

Thank you so much for taking the time to put all of this information together as a useful tool to anyone looking to purchase a puppy.

In addition, it might help someone thinking they might like to breed just one to analyze their intentions for their need to breed. So many time people join YT looking for answers to this very question and there are so many other members who try to express in a few short sentences why they should not consider breeding. Then someone else will come along adding to that post and then another making it overwhelming for the person with the question.

The same with trying to quickly explain to someone with questions about a breeder. How wonderful to be able to direct that person and their questions to these articles! The information is very straight forward and very well broken down.

Thank you again for taking the time to research, read and to this information together in one comprehensive thread.

That is a great idea. Mary posted a wonderful thread in the library about breeding and I will include that link.

AMD · 03-27-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Health problems in the Yorkshire Terrier:

~ Luxating Patella
~ Portal Shunt (Liver Shunt)
~ Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease
~ Pancreatitis
~ Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)
~ Retinal Dysplasia

For more information please visit The YTCA Foundation, Inc.

Health testing for Yorkshire Terriers:

~ Brucellosis

~ BAT (Bile Acid Test)
(test for shunt but cannot indicate if sire/dam is a carrier of the disease)

~ OFA – Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

-Patella
-Legg-Calve Perthes
-Autoimmune Thyroiditis
-Hip Dysplasia

~ CERF – Canine Eye Registration Foundation

CHIC Certification:

The Canine Health Information Center, also known as CHIC, is a centralized canine health database jointly sponsored by the AKC/Canine Health Foundation (AKC/CHF) and the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA). The CHIC, working with participating parent clubs, provides a resource for breeders and owners of purebred dogs to research and maintain information on the health issues prevalent in specific breeds.

A CHIC number is issued when test results are entered into the database satisfying each breed specific requirement, and when the owner of the dog has opted to release the results into the public domain. The CHIC number itself does not imply normal test results, only that all the required breed specific tests were performed and the results made publicly available.

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/

Required health testing for a Yorkshire Terrier to obtain a CHIC number:

~ Eye Clearance – CERF Evaluation prior to the onset of breeding, recommended evaluations at 1, 3, and 6 years of age.

~ Patellar Luxation – OFA Evaluation

For more information please visit Yorkshire Terrier

The YTCA requires a CHIC number to be obtained prior to receiving some top-winning titles.

^^^ Thoughts/suggestions appreciated before I add to permanent thread in the Library.

concretegurl · 03-28-2011, 01:22 AM

So much to digest, I cannot believe the honesty and comprehensive coverage you have complied here!
I'm curious and perhaps playing the devil's advocate just before you post this as a sticky...I'm "one of those" looking for a out of standard, perhaps retained by a breeder to see the development of the pup and then when pup doesn't turn out to be show or breeding quality, breeder would need to find a suitable home-is it possible to see a notation on how that often occurs and what to ask a breeder when getting an older pup or re-homed dog...?

AMD · 03-28-2011, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretegurl

So much to digest, I cannot believe the honesty and comprehensive coverage you have complied here!
I'm curious and perhaps playing the devil's advocate just before you post this as a sticky...I'm "one of those" looking for a out of standard, perhaps retained by a breeder to see the development of the pup and then when pup doesn't turn out to be show or breeding quality, breeder would need to find a suitable home-is it possible to see a notation on how that often occurs and what to ask a breeder when getting an older pup or re-homed dog...?

Thank you!

A lot of the reputable breeder/exhibitors only breed for themselves so it would usually be the case that they wait to see if they are show quality to add to their breeding program. But others may take their chances and pick their show prospect early. Out-of-standard is the reason they'll place pups as pets so they can improve their breeding program. Keep in mind every dog has some faults. Every breeder has those puppies who just don't turn out as good as they hoped and place them in loving pet homes.

As for what questions to ask...I don't think anything changes from what's already been given in determining if they're a reputable breeder.

Mary might have add'l sugestions for you

03-26-2011, 11:15 AM	#16
AMD Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 8,986	continued In the event of refund/exchange, puppy must be returned to seller's ownership, uninjured and free of communicable disease along with all paperwork, signed to return puppy to seller's ownership. Puppy must have had proper care at all times. A $45 processing fee will apply and will be withheld from purchase price. Why should the buyer be charged a processing fee for the seller's provision of an unhealthy dog? How can a puppy with health problems serious enough to come under the provisions of this "warranty" be returned "uninjured" And as stated earlier requirements to return the puppy are the seller's biggest protection against actually being held responsible for selling sickly puppies. A guarantee from a responsible breeder will cover any problem shown to be genetic, and a responsible breeder will not require return of the puppy. The responsible breeder will show concern, will investigate further (e.g. checking on the other litter members), will normally refund the purchase price (depending upon severity of the problem) and even contribute to costs of treatment. At no time will seller's liability exceed the original purchase price of pup, shipping fees excluded, nor be liable for any consequential damages of any sort including vet fees. This limitation isn't even legal in some states, but when a buyer chooses to purchase long distance they usually end up with the laws in that distant state, not their own. Buyer has read and understands that a puppy is a commitment, and that allergies, family problems, landlord disputes, behavioral problems, etc. do no constitute grounds for refund/exchange. Seller has first right of refusal. A responsible breeder takes great care to interview the buyer, and to follow up on important issues such as landlord agreement to the pet, support and advice to avoid behavior issues etc. Second the last thing a responsible breeder would do is refuse to protect a puppy from their breeding from ending up in a shelter or unsuitable home. When the dog is still a puppy, and still placeable as a puppy, the responsible breeder will provide a full refund simply to ensure the safety of the puppy. At later ages when placement becomes more of a challenge the responsible breeder will still require notification and an opportunity to take the dog back. The responsible breeder will take steps to keep in contact with the buyer to try to avoid any of these issues from becoming a problem for the dog. Here are some provisions from a different seller's warranty If the puppy described above expires from distemper, parvo, corona, hepatitis or leptospirosis after 14 days of purchase, Seller will replace the puppy with another puppy of equal value. Seller will get a second opinion at its own expense and will require up to date vaccination records. The selection of a replacement puppy must be made within 6 months of the buyers claim. Under these terms if your pet dies you are entitled only to a replacement. So if your puppy comes down with parvo and you successfully treat it you are, according to the "guarantee" entitled to nothing at all. The 14 day limit is also too limiting as there are related complicating conditions that can kill after that period. A responsible breeder will do better than that, and some lemon laws also require quite a bit more. Source: Getting a Dog Tips - Reading your puppy guarantee

03-26-2011, 01:55 PM	#17
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	INCREDIBLE job, Alyssa! This info will be useful for so many people. There is a permanent copy in the Library too ! __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

03-26-2011, 04:40 PM	#19
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Great job, I think this is so helpful in letting someone know how to choose a good breeder. This isn't something that should be done spur of the moment and I suggest reading this and letting it digest a little and then reading it again. People talk about doing your homework first, and reading this and really understanding what it says can get you an A+ in that important task of choosing a breeder. Also, I think it would be very helpful to breeders who would like to improve their breeding programs. Thank you for taking the time to do this, I know you had to read about a million sites and then organize everything you found, and this will be helpful no matter what breed you're buying! I think your work here shows that you really love the breed! You don't just "talk" about it, you show it! __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

03-26-2011, 05:56 PM	#20
DvlshAngel985 Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, California, USA Posts: 12,693	WOW! That seems thorough. I will definitely use this like a checklist when the time comes to add another to our family. __________________ Littlest JakJak We miss you Kaji

03-27-2011, 04:39 AM	#22
gemy YT 2000 Club Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Huntsville,Ont,Canaada Posts: 12,340 Blog Entries: 2	Thanks Alyssa, I didn't get to compliment you for the very thorough work you did, but my only suggestion was to incorporate through either a Nb or an ** YT related health issues, in the articles that were more breed specific. Also you could add in the websites for OFA and CHIC and CERF. __________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018

03-26-2011, 04:29 PM	#18
lisaly Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 5,892	I haven't finished reading all of this yet, but I intend to do so. What you have prepared is really wonderful, and I can't thank you enough for giving of your time so freely to help others with this. This is very information is very valuable.

03-26-2011, 06:51 PM	#21
AMD Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 8,986	Thank you! There's alot of great info to choose from and it does take a long time to sift through but if it helps to guide anybody to a good breeder, it is time well spent. I hope that I've provided a good overview. I know it's quite lengthy, but hope it is helpful for anybody looking for a puppy.

03-27-2011, 06:19 AM	#24
Gennies Donating YT Addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,865	Amazing job!!!! I love the link to the puppy lemon laws too!!!! Still so sad to see how many states don't have them and how many (hmmmm VA) have such crappy one. Thank you!!!!!!! __________________ Gennie, mommy to my two loves: Bambi & Bijou

03-28-2011, 01:22 AM	#29
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	So much to digest, I cannot believe the honesty and comprehensive coverage you have complied here! I'm curious and perhaps playing the devil's advocate just before you post this as a sticky...I'm "one of those" looking for a out of standard, perhaps retained by a breeder to see the development of the pup and then when pup doesn't turn out to be show or breeding quality, breeder would need to find a suitable home-is it possible to see a notation on how that often occurs and what to ask a breeder when getting an older pup or re-homed dog...? __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!