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11-02-2005, 08:05 AM | #1 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California
Posts: 2,260
| Bile Acid Question? What red flags or symptoms in a dog should encourage one to get them bile acid tested. Is the test painful on the dogs. All input will be sure appreciated. |
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11-02-2005, 08:46 AM | #2 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California
Posts: 2,260
| I need some answers. Please. |
11-02-2005, 08:48 AM | #3 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| I had Miko bile acid tested just because I wanted peace of mind. I had read so many stories about yorkies with liver shunts, that I just had to get him tested. He had what I thought was a UTI and I knew that problems with urination were a symptom of liver shunt. |
11-02-2005, 08:52 AM | #4 |
No Longer A Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tennessee
Posts: 986
| How do they test them? Is it expensive? Is it painful? Is it deadly if they have it? |
11-02-2005, 09:00 AM | #5 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| It's not painful at all...It's a series of fasting and testing. It only costs about $55 and it's well worth it. It doesn't hurt or put their lives in jeopardy. Hope this helps. |
11-02-2005, 10:25 AM | #6 |
Loved by Maddie & Libby Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Dakota
Posts: 10,732
| I am no authority on this, but from what I've read on YT or the internet, I'd say if your puppy has had any seizures, poor appetite, drooling, staggering, depression or lack of interest in activities, then it would be a good idea to have him/her tested. Also, if you are worried about liver shunt, watch your puppy just after he/she's eaten...their symptoms usually get more noticeable then. Hope this was of some help and I hope you are not having to deal with this scary possibility! |
11-02-2005, 11:07 AM | #7 |
No Longer A Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tennessee
Posts: 986
| I haven't notived anything wrong with Tucker other than he wants to eat EVERYTHING...But the vet never mentioned anything about getting him tested when I first got him so I didn't know anything about it...Thanks for all the info..I will watch for any changes in him... |
11-02-2005, 04:30 PM | #8 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida
Posts: 1,568
| The price depends what state you're in. I paid $85 for the test. The only pain they feel is a needle pinch. They ask you NOT to feed them after midnight and to bring them in the morning. They draw blood. They feed them and they draw blood again. They send it to a lab and they test both Pre-meal and Post-meal blood samples for Bile acids. A normal test would be Pre-meal less than 10. Post meal ,less than 20. If your dog's results are higher than that the vet will request for a second Bile acid test just to confirm the results. I requested for this test and my yorkie has NOT had any symptoms. Usually with very high bile acids results a pet might have seizures,diarreah,vomiting, very ,very quiet ,seems depressed,sleeps a lot. The only symptom my yorkie seems to have is sleeping a lot. I never thought this was a bad thing because he has been that way since I got him. He will be going for surgery this Tuesday to search for a liver shunt. I would do this test with any Yorkie just for peace of mind. Genie |
11-02-2005, 04:33 PM | #9 |
BANNED! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 9,999
| I too worry so much about my babies. I think the cost for the test is different at all the vets. |
11-02-2005, 04:44 PM | #10 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chico,California
Posts: 597
| URINE Bile acid test here is a link on a new Urine Bile acid test that is said to be more accurate than the fasting and blood draw and its more inexpesive and less hard than the wee ones than fasting here is a link i bile acid test all my babies ... the puppies that are smaller in the litter have more likely hood in issues but 45 or 50 dollars quick test know your results in 2 days also if you have had hypoglycemia issues with your puppie thats also a sign http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/bileacids.html |
11-02-2005, 05:07 PM | #11 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| I agree with Cookie2! It's good to get this test just for peace of mind, and $85 is not too much to pay just to know that your yorkie doesn't have a liver shunt. Like I said, I had not noticed any symptoms besides the possible UTI, and he ended up having a liver shunt. |
11-02-2005, 05:08 PM | #12 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Yorkie_Mama, I did not know about the urine bile acid test, thanks for putting that out there! |
11-02-2005, 05:19 PM | #13 |
No Longer A Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tennessee
Posts: 986
| what is the cause and treatment for a liver shunt? I am calling my vet tomorrow to get him tested.. |
11-02-2005, 05:40 PM | #14 |
YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Miramar, FL(Origianally a Southern Indiana Girl!)
Posts: 302
| Liver Shunt and Bile Acid. My yorkie, Matise has a liver shunt. I just had the bile acid test ran in Oct. and surgery as well. Matise showed no real clear signs until one day he started having seizures. He had 3 random un-diagnoseable vomitting episodes which has now been attributed to the liver shunt but no other clinical signs until he had the seizures. He was always quiet but I never had a yorkie so I didn't know and I thought that maybe his personality was mirroring ours. So after the third seizure we did the test and his results came back pre-meal 63.7 and post meal 212.3. So both of his results were very high. Matise was 14 months old at diagnosis, but the signs can start showing as early as 4 months. A liver shunt is a blood vessel that carries blood around the liver instead of through it. In some cases a liver shunt is a birth defect ("congenital portosystemic shunt). This is the most common in yorkies. In other cases, multiple small shunts ("acquired portosystemic shunts") form because of severe liver disease such as cirrhosis. All mammalian fetuses have a large shunt ("ductus venosus") that carries blood quickly through the fetal liver to the heart. Since the mother's liver does the work of filtering out toxins, storing sugar, and producing protein for her unborn babies, liver function is not needed in the fetus. This ductus venosus is supposed to close down shortly before or after birth as the baby's liver begins to work. In some individuals the shunt doesn't close down; it is then called a "Patent Ductus Venosus", or an intrahepatic shunt. In other animals, a blood vessel outside of the liver develops abnormally and remains open after the ductus venosus closes. This is called a congenital extrahepatic shunt. This is the most common for yorkies. Some red flags can include small stature, poor muscle development, behavioral abnormalities (circling, disorientation, unresponsiveness, staring into space, head pressing), seizures, and quiet demeanor. Other less common signs include drinking or urinating too much, apparent blindness, diarrhea, and vomiting. In some cases the signs are associated with eating protein. Other signs are when they take a long time recovering from anesthestics (i.e. barbiturates) or sedatives (i.e. acepromazine). Some show no signs until they are older, when they develop bladder and kidney infections and stones. Bile acid test cost can range from $50-$100 depending on where you live. Ours cost $85 for the bile acid and the CBC $84. They often do a CBC to check the albumin concentration, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), blood glucose levels. They just draw blood so it really doesn't hurt them. What they do is, they ask you to fast your dog-NO FOOD of any kind for 12 hours before the test. Then they draw blood. Then they feed your dog a high fat food and wait 2 hours then draw blood again. They then test these 2 blood samples to see what the bile acid scores are. Normal pre-meal is <10. Normal post-meal are <15 to 20. They also consider other levels and usually do a CBC blood test to test for albumin concentration, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), blood glucose levels. Dogs with shunts have higher than normal scores both pre and post test. Matise's results came back pre-meal 63.7 and post meal 212.3. So both of his results were very high There are different kinds of shunts but the most common in yorkies is extrahepatic portosystemic shunt. This is what Matise had and they performed surgery where they put an Ameroid Constrictor on the shunt. An ameroid constrictor is a metal band with an inner ring of casein, a protein found in milk. In the belly, the inner ring absorbs normal fluid and gradually swells, pressing on the shunt and encouraging it to scar shut. Matise is recovering well and Dr. Moore expects him to make a full recovery it is a long process and a hard road to go down. We are very relieved and happy about the optimistic outlook. We are lucky that we had the resources to fix his shunt. I can guarantee you that I will have a bile acid test before I get my next yorkie. This has been a very difficult thing to go through and for Matise to go through. Not to mention very, very expensive. Matise had his stitches out yesterday and we go back for our 1 month re-check on the 18th then a three month re-check in Jan. and possible 1st post surgery bile acid and CBC blood work. Then again in April for 6 month re-check and blood work then again in Oct. 2006 for 1 year re-check and blood work. Now Genie (Cookie2) is going through this. It is hard. Let me know if I can offer you any other info, help or support. Check out the links in my signature they can provide you with some good info on Liver Shunts.
__________________ Last edited by kara; 11-02-2005 at 05:44 PM. |
11-03-2005, 03:32 PM | #15 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Miko was a pretty active yorkie and he weighed 8.5-9 lbs before we found out about his intrahepatic liver shunt and he still is, so he wasn't small in stature or anything like that. The reason I mention this is because I know small and not active are two possible signs and a lot of the yorkies that have liver shunts have these, but Miko was neither of the two. You might not even notice any symptoms at all. Great info, by the way, kara! |
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