This pup or another?

[arielart]

Hi! I am brand new here and have been learning so much from reading past posts. This forum is SUCH a wonderful resource!

I agonized over whether or not to post a request for advice, but figured I had nothing to lose and maybe you all could help me decide what to do.

I have a unique opportunity to purchase a yorkie from a neighbor. I have completely fallen in love with this particular dog, and I have been looking for a dog for about five years now, ever since my companion animal, a cat, died of cancer. I had not at all considered a yorkie until I met this particular pup who I seemed to be forging a relationship with -- and I have met many dogs in the past five years.

But there are a few things which make me hesitate.

So let me tall you about the pup. He was from an "accidental" breeding. The six year old female is not spayed because the grown daughter of the woman who cares for the dog did not want to neuter her dog. Meanwhile, the woman who cares for the dog has a sister whose boyfriend has an unneutered yorkie. The dogs were "only together one time." But, as you all know, that is all it takes.

The woman who cares for the pup is a good neighbor who has been friends with members of my husband's family. So I do not want to offend her, and am trying to approach this whole situation with friendliness and compassion.

Of course, the advantage to all of this is that I actually get to visit the pup every single day (which I am doing and enjoying). The pup is only six weeks old and not ready to go home with me yet, of course. So I really enjoy being with him while he is so young and seeing how he is socialized. He really loves being with me and already knows me and comes to me when I call him. He is rambunctious, curious and full of energy, but when I hold him or speak to him, he immediately gives me his full attention and sits quietly for me. He is one of the brightest pups I have ever seen, in fact. He is even already trained to his puppy pad near his little pen.

I went to the vet with the owner to get the pup a check up and his second series of shots. The vet said that not only was the pup in excellent health, but he is "robust." This pup is already two pounds and very active. The vet says the pup may actually get to be fifteen pounds, although both his parents are very tiny (mom is 4.5 pounds, dad is 4 pounds).

Here are some pix of the pup, his mom, and his cousin. There is more I can tell you, and I'm sure you will all have a billion questions but here is a start.

A couple more things you should know is that I volunteer with the local SPCA so am not ignorant about animals and breeders. In fact, I am one of those people who is very cautious about where animals come from and their histories (can you tell I have been burnt more than once by the pet industry? Yes, I knew that you could ).

Most importantly, I need to train any dog I get as a service dog (I have a serious disability). In fact, I have an appointment to take this pup, at my own expense, to get evaluated by a professional organization which trains service dogs next week.

Anyway, what I am having qualms with includes (1) the dog is predicted to get so big while the parents are so small; (2) that, by purchasing the pup, I my be encouraging "accidental" breedings; (3) that I do not like some of the behaviors the pup is picking up at his current home, (4) that I will not get a standard breeder contract but that I am paying quite a lot for the dog.

Am I worrying too much, or are these legitimate concerns?

[danyellm]

It sounds like you have very genuine concerns......
first ,yes it does seem like this pup will be on the big side,there can never be a guarntee of size but if you are wanting a smaller yorkie chances are you would be disappointed.second yes buying pups from accidental breedings does encourage byb to breed indiscriminatly for profit.Lastly if they are asking a hefty amount and not willing to offer you some guarantee on an unregistered yorkie , I would look elsewheres, ask them are what kind of health tests have either parents had?These people would need to justify their asking price.however if you have already fallen for the yorkie do what you feel is right for you .Best of luck in your decision

[Maximo]

Adorable dog. The "quite a lot" of money for an accidental breeding of pets and no papers or guarantees would turn me away. I think your neighbor should be asking only what is necessary to cover costs, at most.

[arielart]

Thanks, danyellm.

They are not in a hurry to sell him and are not advertising him for sale. It really does seem like a genuine accident -- or at least they were only careless. I will not be able to get a health guarantee from them in the sales contract. However, the vet did say she would sign a letter stating that the dog should be able to give service as a healthy dog for four to six years (which is what the dog training facility asks for).

The owners will give me all the paperwork I need so I can register the dog with the AKC myself.

They are asking $500 for the dog. What do you think?

Does all of this sound reasonable?

[Rhetts_mama]

I'm one who prefers the bigger size in a yorkie. I would think, depending on what you are having him do as a service dog, that it might actually work to his advantage. Big enough to do some work without getting injured and yet still small enough to be easily portable, not eat huge amounts, etc. It really is hard to guestimate his adult weight at this point though, especially since they all go through growth spurts and he could just be ahead of the curve right now. Most vets and breeders will say you get the best guess of what the adult weight will be if you double the weight at 12 weeks.

Are there specific behaviors that are concerning you with this pup? At 6 weeks, he is just starting to exhibit his personality and still learning a lot from being with his mom and litter mates. Bad habits the home environment is teaching him can be re-trained in most cases with patience and consistency.

Why is he having his second round of shots at only 6 weeks? That is too early for even his first set.

I'm pretty vocal with my opinion that there is no such thing as an accidental breeding- by failing to spay or neuter they were planning on having an accident. I wouldn't be as worried about an AKC registration with a pup who was going to be a service dog, because I would assume from that you have no intention of breeding him & will have him neutered asap and registration isn't a requirement for any service program that I am aware of.

The health guarantee is a concern as is the lack of pre-breeding testing and that may be something you want to use to your advantage in negotiating a better price. If price is a real concern here, you might want to consider a re-homed pet from a rescue or even an older pup from a reputable breeder. If you volunteer with the SPCA, I'm sure they can point you in the direction of a young dog who would love to be your companion animal.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Maximo

Adorable dog. The "quite a lot" of money for an accidental breeding of pets and no papers or guarantees would turn me away. I think your neighbor should be asking only what is necessary to cover costs, at most.

I agree. Size really doesn't phase me much. Just because the parents are small, doesn't mean that somewhere in the past 3 or 4 generations of this pup's lineage are dogs that have reached the 15 lb range. If this dog is to be a service animal, I think a bigger "robust" yorkie could be of more service than a tiny yorkie, since they require extra care.
As far as supporting uneducated breeders, after what I've learned here, I would hesitate also.

[arielart]

Why is he having his second round of shots at only 6 weeks? That is too early for even his first set.

Oh, sorry. I just talked with the vet and it was the first set. This would be the first dog I would have since I was a teen, so I'm not as knowledgeable as I wish I were.

I'm pretty vocal with my opinion that there is no such thing as an accidental breeding- by failing to spay or neuter they were planning on having an accident.

I TOTALLY agree with you, which is why I am hesitating.

I wouldn't be as worried about an AKC registration with a pup who was going to be a service dog, because I would assume from that you have no intention of breeding him & will have him neutered asap

Again, totally agree. Yes, he will be neutered at the first opportunity. I've already spoken to the vet about it.

and registration isn't a requirement for any service program that I am aware of

Yep. You're right. Personally I don't care about the registration. I am not really the kind of person who cares about those things. I have had some very bad experiences with so-called legitimate breeders as well. But if I am paying a lot of money, I expect the breeder to provide the paperwork.

If price is a real concern here

Price is not a concern. I can pay full price for an excellent pedigree -- better than this pup. I am also willing to wait -- as I already have since I have been looking for five years. But if I pay for a purebred pup either here or elsewhere I expect to have all the paperwork the breeder is willing to offer.

What annoys me is when some guy gets a stud fee for "accidentally" breeding his dog then telling me I cannot have a copy of that pedigree.

Thanks for pointing all this out. I totally agree with you on all points.

[arielart]

So my husband and I spoke with the woman today -- she said I could get copies of the parent's pedigree and meet the father of the dog. Se also told my husband that she would put it in writing that the dog could be returned at any time for any reason in the future.

The vet is willing to sign a letter that the dog does not have any hereditary yorkie conditions.

But the way, the “accidental breeder” is only asking $500 -- half of which has already gone to the puppy’s and mom’s vet bills and the other half to the father's owner. I told the woman who has the puppy that I didn't think the father’s owner should get a stud fee if the breeding was an "accident." She said the father's owner did not have his dog neutered.

The price is not an issue. By the time the dog is raised and trained I will have spent quite a lot of money. I can afford to pay more for a dog of excellent lineage. I just happened to meet and like this dog.

What do you think? Is the "breeder" being reasonable?

[arielart]

So, I just wanted to add that I did not necessarily intend to get a yorkie. Just happened to be what this pup is.

[arielart]

So my husband and I spoke with the woman today -- she said I could get copies of the parent's pedigree and meet the father of the dog. Se also told my husband that she would put it in writing that the dog could be returned at any time for any reason in the future.

The vet is willing to sign a letter that the dog does not have any hereditary yorkie conditions.

But the way, the “accidental breeder” is only asking $500 -- half of which has already gone to the puppy’s and mom’s vet bills and the other half to the father's owner. I told the woman who has the puppy that I didn't think the father’s owner should get a stud fee if the breeding was an "accident." She said the father's owner did not have his dog neutered.

What do you think? Is the "breeder" being reasonable?

[Cares4Dogs]

You mentioned you were disabled, would you pysically be able to handle a 15# pup?

If your bonded with the pup and both parents are healthy then this might be a good match for you. The one thing that would concern me (if I was in your shoes) is if the pup is healthy. If she doesnt have a contract, what happens if this pup ends up with a genetic illness? I wouldnt get this pup without a contract, but also she is your neighbor--she could be trustworthy. Its ur call.

[MadDeDo]

I think it will have to be your call ultimately. You're right, an accidental breeding is not to be "commended", BUT honestly if they took the mom and the pup to the vet and will be getting his vaccines, check ups, etc. there I think $500 is a very reasonable adoption fee IMO.

[citygirl123]

It sounds like you have examined all the pros and cons. The price is reasonable and the dog is beautiful. Go for it!! Best wishes to you!

[arielart]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

I think it will have to be your call ultimately.

Thank you all very much for your kind and wise comments.

I told the "accidental breeder" tonight that I would not be taking the pup.

I am very VERY sad, but my conscience just would not let me reward people for carelessness. Especially since I accidentally heard some of the dog's human family say that now they should breed the dogs again.

My husband has been very supportive and says he thinks I made the right decision (he did not want to influence me so only listened to me until I decided). And the pup is very cute with a great personality, so I am sure the dog will find the right home soon.

Well, back to the drawing board of looking for a pup to train as a service dog. Sigh.

But at least three good things came out of this. First, I started walking again (in preparations for walking a dog) which is very good for my disability. Secondly, the whole experience made me decide to become more assertive about finding the right dog, asking the tough questions, and not just waiting for any dog to come along. And finally, I met some other responsible dog owners locally, including a yorkie person just around the corner from me whom I can talk to!

Thanks again, everyone, for talking with me today. You all made a world of difference to me. You really helped!

[Imretired]

Without knowing what your disability is, it is not possible to judge whether his adult size will be a plus. He is going to be too small to give physical support but a bit big to carry around and,say, just alert you to a pending episode of some kind. He will be a good size to leash train and walk with you if that would meet your needs.
I don't believe in "accidental" breedings either. One or the other should have been altered or they should have never even been in the same house.
You will have to trust that your neighbor will not see these "accidents" as profitable and decide to allow the same thing to happen again.
Use your best judgement and do what you think is right regardless of how the neighbor feels. You will have that baby for 10-15 years. Believe me, you will NEVER take him back to the breeder. You are already in love with that puppy as you should be if you buy him. He will always be a "pet" if he doesn't work out as a service dog.
Can you search the pedigree and try to find out past conditions in his lines? That would be a start in the right direction. The best of lines could possibly still have an occasional problem, though.
Good luck!!