very discouraged

[kaiatbh]

Thanks so much, everyone. I guess I'm just very overwhelmed and need to relax. We had a dog many years ago who we had to rehome. We got him as an adult and he was severely dominant and aggressive. He bit my sister badly, so we absolutely had no choice but to rehome him (me and my sister were very young at the time). So, because of this bad experience, I am paranoid. When I read up on Cesar's philosophy, he makes it seem like even a very young puppy should obey you or you're in for trouble. He goes on about dominance, energy level, etc. And he makes it clear that how you act around your puppy and how you choose to train your puppy is crucial to your puppy's development and could make him or break him. This naturally scared me. I just want to make sure I do everything right. And despite all of the wonderful replies, I am still confused. Should I do away with the whole dominance thing (feeding him after I eat, not letting him enter a room before me, etc.)? I thought being the alpha would make him respect me, and therefore not bite me unless invited to do so through play. Everyone seems to be reminding me that Yoni is a baby. Well, I know that... but Cesar says it's dangerous when people use that excuse for a dog behaving badly.

By the way, I'm using a clicker when I train him. That's how I taught him to sit and stand. Should I use the clicker when I'm correcting him and he listens? Like, if he's attacking me and I get him to stop, should I click and give him a treat?

[Ute White]

I have no idea: What is a clicker????

[Sweet Apple]

Shoot, think about how old he is in human years, and then compare it to canine years...My skin kid wasn't "trained", 'till he was about 18 years old! Parenting is an on-going process, and they grow along the way...I think he's doing fantastic, for his age!!!

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

Thanks so much, everyone. I guess I'm just very overwhelmed and need to relax. We had a dog many years ago who we had to rehome. We got him as an adult and he was severely dominant and aggressive. He bit my sister badly, so we absolutely had no choice but to rehome him (me and my sister were very young at the time). So, because of this bad experience, I am paranoid. When I read up on Cesar's philosophy, he makes it seem like even a very young puppy should obey you or you're in for trouble. He goes on about dominance, energy level, etc. And he makes it clear that how you act around your puppy and how you choose to train your puppy is crucial to your puppy's development and could make him or break him. This naturally scared me. I just want to make sure I do everything right. And despite all of the wonderful replies, I am still confused. Should I do away with the whole dominance thing (feeding him after I eat, not letting him enter a room before me, etc.)? I thought being the alpha would make him respect me, and therefore not bite me unless invited to do so through play. Everyone seems to be reminding me that Yoni is a baby. Well, I know that... but Cesar says it's dangerous when people use that excuse for a dog behaving badly.

By the way, I'm using a clicker when I train him. That's how I taught him to sit and stand. Should I use the clicker when I'm correcting him and he listens? Like, if he's attacking me and I get him to stop, should I click and give him a treat?

A clicker should be used to shape a behavior. The pupsters should associate the click with a reward for doing good. What good will the clicker be if you also use it to correct him. Instead, come up with a seperate correction. I use a double clap because it distracts Kaji from his naughty deeds, and a firm (no yelling) No. He knows no means don't do it. Good luck! Remember that training is a bonding experience.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

Thanks so much, everyone. I guess I'm just very overwhelmed and need to relax. We had a dog many years ago who we had to rehome. We got him as an adult and he was severely dominant and aggressive. He bit my sister badly, so we absolutely had no choice but to rehome him (me and my sister were very young at the time). So, because of this bad experience, I am paranoid. When I read up on Cesar's philosophy, he makes it seem like even a very young puppy should obey you or you're in for trouble. He goes on about dominance, energy level, etc. And he makes it clear that how you act around your puppy and how you choose to train your puppy is crucial to your puppy's development and could make him or break him. This naturally scared me. I just want to make sure I do everything right. And despite all of the wonderful replies, I am still confused. Should I do away with the whole dominance thing (feeding him after I eat, not letting him enter a room before me, etc.)? I thought being the alpha would make him respect me, and therefore not bite me unless invited to do so through play. Everyone seems to be reminding me that Yoni is a baby. Well, I know that... but Cesar says it's dangerous when people use that excuse for a dog behaving badly.

By the way, I'm using a clicker when I train him. That's how I taught him to sit and stand. Should I use the clicker when I'm correcting him and he listens? Like, if he's attacking me and I get him to stop, should I click and give him a treat?

If you are using clicker, remember it used for positive reinforcement. So, when you click you are clicking for good responses, also don't forget the treat as soon as you click.

At 12 weeks of age, you are expecting way too much from this puppy. He's growing, teething, everything is hurting right now.

The nipping is due to his teething. He doesn't know he's hurting you. An easy way to correct this is just by letting out a loud ouch.....believe me it works.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

A clicker should be used to shape a behavior. The pupsters should associate the click with a reward for doing good. What good will the clicker be if you also use it to correct him. Instead, come up with a seperate correction. I use a double clap because it distracts Kaji from his naughty deeds, and a firm (no yelling) No. He knows no means don't do it. Good luck! Remember that training is a bonding experience.

You are so right. People don't realize that a pup has to be conditioned first to the clicker. Click, feed, click, feed......then once they associate that....you go on with positive reinforcement.....clicking when you obtain the correct behavior you are looking for.....but, you must follow up with a treat as soon as you click.....

Click training my dogs has helped me pull them out of unwanted ring behavior.

Another thing that pet owners are not aware of is the fear factor time frames.....8, 12, 16, 21 weeks.......Nothing, nothing should be done out of the ordinary during these timeframes. Anything that creates fear will be embedded into them.

[kaiatbh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

If you are using clicker, remember it used for positive reinforcement. So, when you click you are clicking for good responses, also don't forget the treat as soon as you click.

At 12 weeks of age, you are expecting way too much from this puppy. He's growing, teething, everything is hurting right now.

The nipping is due to his teething. He doesn't know he's hurting you. An easy way to correct this is just by letting out a loud ouch.....believe me it works.

This is why I'm discouraged. Everyone keeps telling me it should work, but it absolutely, positively, does NOT work. I try yelping, saying "OUCH!", giving a firm "NO!", etc. etc. etc. etc. Every sound I make just makes him bite me more and harder. Several people have told me that they've never met such a bad puppy. He is doing great with "sit" and "stand" and I'm very proud of him for that. But play time.... well, it's impossible. I was almost in tears earlier because he bit me so hard.



This is the result that I got from taking this quiz:

Mostly 1's
A puppy that consistently scores a 1 in the temperament section of the test is an extremely dominant, aggressive puppy who can easily be provoked to bite. His dominant nature will attempt to resist human leadership, thus requiring only the most experienced of handlers. This puppy is a poor choice for most individuals and will do best in a working situation as a guard, hunting or police dog

[princessizzy]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

This is why I'm discouraged. Everyone keeps telling me it should work, but it absolutely, positively, does NOT work. I try yelping, saying "OUCH!", giving a firm "NO!", etc. etc. etc. etc. Every sound I make just makes him bite me more and harder. Several people have told me that they've never met such a bad puppy. He is doing great with "sit" and "stand" and I'm very proud of him for that. But play time.... well, it's impossible. I was almost in tears earlier because he bit me so hard.



This is the result that I got from taking this quiz:

Mostly 1's
A puppy that consistently scores a 1 in the temperament section of the test is an extremely dominant, aggressive puppy who can easily be provoked to bite. His dominant nature will attempt to resist human leadership, thus requiring only the most experienced of handlers. This puppy is a poor choice for most individuals and will do best in a working situation as a guard, hunting or police dog

Please remember that Yorkies are completely Different then any other breed... I didn't know this when I got Izzy But after reading that book barrons Dog bible for Yorkishie terries and being on this web site, I have learned so much..

Izzy is now 8 months old and she is just learning to sit, stay and come...It take alot of work..And love from you.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You are so right. People don't realize that a pup has to be conditioned first to the clicker. Click, feed, click, feed......then once they associate that....you go on with positive reinforcement.....clicking when you obtain the correct behavior you are looking for.....but, you must follow up with a treat as soon as you click.....

Click training my dogs has helped me pull them out of unwanted ring behavior.

Another thing that pet owners are not aware of is the fear factor time frames.....8, 12, 16, 21 weeks.......Nothing, nothing should be done out of the ordinary during these timeframes. Anything that creates fear will be embedded into them.

Thanks for that info. I wish we could have stickies in our User CP. There are so many posts from people that know more than me that I like to go back and reference.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

This is why I'm discouraged. Everyone keeps telling me it should work, but it absolutely, positively, does NOT work. I try yelping, saying "OUCH!", giving a firm "NO!", etc. etc. etc. etc. Every sound I make just makes him bite me more and harder. Several people have told me that they've never met such a bad puppy. He is doing great with "sit" and "stand" and I'm very proud of him for that. But play time.... well, it's impossible. I was almost in tears earlier because he bit me so hard.



This is the result that I got from taking this quiz:

Mostly 1's
A puppy that consistently scores a 1 in the temperament section of the test is an extremely dominant, aggressive puppy who can easily be provoked to bite. His dominant nature will attempt to resist human leadership, thus requiring only the most experienced of handlers. This puppy is a poor choice for most individuals and will do best in a working situation as a guard, hunting or police dog

And when I take online quizzes they say I don't match up as a yorkie owner.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by RDB911

Honestly, he's very young and still a puppy...you can't except results overnight...give it time, he’s still very trainable..

Also, I highly recommend you get him fixed if you haven’t already. This will help with the dominance issue.

I so agree - at his age the attention span is pretty short - try to just take things one day at a time ...he really is still just a baby and lots of the 'puppy' issues will change over time -

I had to laugh at the 'he's probably running the house' since these guys DO run the house. I wish I trained my girls better (they're much much older than yours) but back then - life was different in my case

they were just so freakin cute I tended to let them get away with alot and I wasn't consistant - now all these years later - it shows and I feel pretty guilty because it's not their fault they're spoiled rotten It's all on me.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

I used a squirt bottle for a short period of time and it seemed to work, but then I read that you shouldn't do that because it's managing him but not teaching him? I'm going to ask the trainer about it because right now it may be the only thing that works. I just want him to see me as the pack leader.

Well I really never read much about it but I did read if you use a loud noise to train them not to do things that later on in there life loud noises will scare them like thunderstorms and such.

[nana911]

How old was he when you got him?

[QuickSilver]

How old was he when you got him? Puppies learn bite inhibition in the litter. If they are taken away too early, you will have to teach this yourself.

You are right that some puppies don't respond to an "ouch". If your pup is very mouthy, it will take some time to train him out of it. First, does he have chew toys? Show him things that he can chew on (toys), and things he can't (you). You can try putting chew toys in the freezer, as this will sooth their gums when they chew.

You have the right idea about nipping - stop play immediately. This is a gentle correction. It may take some persistence, but react as little as possible. Moving pant legs = super fun bite targets, because they are acting like prey. Stop dead.

Most dog trainers now believe that aggressive behavior in adult dogs, like biting, is not a sign of dominance, but of fear and insecurity. Again, in a puppy, it doesn't mean much at all. A puppy is not going to be struggling for dominance. Disobedient, scatterbrained, sure, but not trying to be the boss.

Here is an excellent site that uses modern training methods. Dog Star Daily

Here's a recent blog on the topic of canine manners: http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/whats-it-all

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by kaiatbh

Thanks so much, everyone. I guess I'm just very overwhelmed and need to relax. We had a dog many years ago who we had to rehome. We got him as an adult and he was severely dominant and aggressive. He bit my sister badly, so we absolutely had no choice but to rehome him (me and my sister were very young at the time). So, because of this bad experience, I am paranoid. When I read up on Cesar's philosophy, he makes it seem like even a very young puppy should obey you or you're in for trouble. He goes on about dominance, energy level, etc. And he makes it clear that how you act around your puppy and how you choose to train your puppy is crucial to your puppy's development and could make him or break him. This naturally scared me. I just want to make sure I do everything right. And despite all of the wonderful replies, I am still confused. Should I do away with the whole dominance thing (feeding him after I eat, not letting him enter a room before me, etc.)? I thought being the alpha would make him respect me, and therefore not bite me unless invited to do so through play. Everyone seems to be reminding me that Yoni is a baby. Well, I know that... but Cesar says it's dangerous when people use that excuse for a dog behaving badly.

By the way, I'm using a clicker when I train him. That's how I taught him to sit and stand. Should I use the clicker when I'm correcting him and he listens? Like, if he's attacking me and I get him to stop, should I click and give him a treat?

To respond to this specifically: I think Cesar is very old school, and too concerned with "dominance". That being said, the stuff you are doing now is great. It fits into another training theory, Nothing In Life Is Free (NILF). You are treaching your dog that if he wants something from you, he can get it with good behavior. So sure, keep up the Sit training.

If you introduce your pup to an adult dog, you may see the adult give your puppy rough corrections. This is alpha behavior, and is generally effective in teaching your puppy good manners and respect for his elders. However, these types of corrections that work for dogs are not as effective for people. We don't speak fluent dog. Overly dominant, physical actions can cause your puppy to fear you, and that will work against the foundation you are laying now.

Clicker training should only be use to mark good behavior, and it should generally be used in conjunction with a command. So if your pup bites you, you could say, "Off!", and if he gets off, click and treat him. Just one thing to consider, you may set up a behavior chain here - he tries to trigger you to say "Off!" so he can get a treat, and the trigger is jumping on you. Remember, training is a two way street.

Good luck! Keep us posted on how it goes.