Defamation, dishonesty and untruths

[DamSweet]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Personally I find this whole thread has other motives and to post something 5 years later is just ridiculous and a lot of mis-information is being given.

I might add a lot of reputable breeders would let the owner keep the dog and pay the vet bills. If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding. Someone who is concerned for the dogs first would do this.

I highly doubt this happened because of dog food or a an injury to the brain but that is just my opinion based on a dog that was hit in the head with a baseball bat and if it was dog food the dog would be dead.

I totally agree after 5 years this should be over. However, these types of posts - as upsetting as they are, teach me so much. For instance if I'm reading this right - I can go to a breeders home, and even though I find the conditions of the home/kennel/and some puppies below standard, I can choose to purchase a puppy, take it home, and after several weeks, discover it is not well - I can then contact the breeder and expect that the breeder should pay the vet bills, and let me keep the puppy, without having to show any type of proof from a vet that it was indeed caused by bad breeding. I didn't know that - I guess that is good information to have when I look for my next furbaby. Bridget was a rescue so I am not aware of the options to those who purchase from a breeder. Now I know what to look for. Or am I reading this wrong....I'm really just trying to learn from others trials and errors.

[BamaFan121s]

I don't think anyone would expect a breeder to take financial responsibility for vet bills if there is no veterinary proof of an ailment... I would think it's common sense that there would have to be some very good communication regarding the issue between the vet(s), owner and breeder.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by DamSweet

I totally agree after 5 years this should be over. However, these types of posts - as upsetting as they are, teach me so much. For instance if I'm reading this right - I can go to a breeders home, and even though I find the conditions of the home/kennel/and some puppies below standard, I can choose to purchase a puppy, take it home, and after several weeks, discover it is not well - I can then contact the breeder and expect that the breeder should pay the vet bills, and let me keep the puppy, without having to show any type of proof from a vet that it was indeed caused by bad breeding. I didn't know that - I guess that is good information to have when I look for my next furbaby. Bridget was a rescue so I am not aware of the options to those who purchase from a breeder. Now I know what to look for. Or am I reading this wrong....I'm really just trying to learn from others trials and errors.

You would have to read the contract to see what you can and can not do. Plus if you went to a home with substandards then I am sure the breeder could care less about the dogs and their health.

A reputable breeder would be very open to communication about the health of one of their puppies and not immediatley look for other causes.

Again, I believe there is more to the story and other motives behind this whole thread. If you choose to pick and take from this thread then please continue to do your homework. These type of threads always have a lot going on under the surface.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

So it would seem...



The points that have been made regarding this aspect kind of shocked me, to be honest. I was under the impression that the breeder *at least* assisting with vet bills was the norm. I would think at least paying the bills up to the purchase price of the dog would be resonable and not that unheard of. After seeing the comments made by some of the other breeders here, I see that is not the way this type of situation would typically be handled.

If your dog jumped off the couch and broke his leg, would you expect the breeder to pay for the vet charges? If your dog ran out the front door and was injured, would you ask the seller to foot the bill? How about a food allergy? If your pet broke out in hives, or lost patches of hair hair and required medical attention, should the seller be expected to help pay the treatment costs??

If the buyer was unwilling to turn over vet information, vet charges and ok the breeder to speak with the vet about this case, why should the seller be expected to pay for these costs?

I know if I had a dog with an issue, I'd present every bit of evidence and every document I had ... I'd be willing to give the breeder anything she asked for. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I would also like to know why the OP has not come back to defend herself..

This was poorly written and was not what I meant.

What I meant was "I would like to know why the OP has not come back for further discusssion on this thread".

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

If your dog jumped off the couch and broke his leg, would you expect the breeder to pay for the vet charges? If your dog ran out the front door and was injured, would you ask the seller to foot the bill? How about a food allergy? If your pet broke out in hives, or lost patches of hair hair and required medical attention, should the seller be expected to help pay the treatment costs??

If the buyer was unwilling to turn over vet information, vet charges and ok the breeder to speak with the vet about this case, why should the seller be expected to pay for these costs?

I'm not talking about a broken leg or allergy or something caused by the dog's environment. I mean for issues that are legitimate genetic issues. Surely you knew that?! I would have thought that was common sense and should go without saying. And OF COURSE there should be veterinary proof and open communication between the breeder, vet and owner. Sorry...I would have thought that was rather obvious and wouldn't need clarification.

[Rhetts_mama]

The point is, we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes, what was asked for (or offered) by either side.

What we do know is that someone came on here and dragged up nearly 5 year old posts. Why stir the pot now? If the buyer was still posting things HERE about the breeder, I would say she MIGHT have some justification in bringing this public.

Someone said this sounded familiar. A week or two ago, someone came on here and vented about ongoing problems with a buyer. That person had the good sense and manners to not name names or drag up posts. IMO, the way that was handled was a much better way of doing things.

It's unfortunate that this has become a she said/ she said thread, when all that really matters is the health of the dog.

ETA: To the poster who said threads like these are an education. ITA. I've picked up some wonderful points to look for in a breeder, and I know now to look for some of the red flags that maybe a particular breeder and I won't be a good fit. I thank those who have taken the time to educate me.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I'm not talking about a broken leg or allergy or something caused by the dog's environment. I mean for issues that are legitimate genetic issues. Surely you knew that?! I would have thought that was common sense and should go without saying. And OF COURSE there should be veterinary proof and open communication between the breeder, vet and owner. Sorry...I would have thought that was rather obvious and wouldn't need clarification.

I clearly understand but obviously others do not ... again, many are assuming that this is a result of genetics as opposed to being an environmental, toxin, chemical imbalance or injury cause.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I clearly understand but obviously others do not ... again, many are assuming that this is a result of genetics as opposed to being an environmental, toxin, chemical imbalance or injury cause.

Whew

Eh, I really wasn't talking about this specific instance when I originally commented. I just meant generally, in response to some of the comments regarding the absurdity breeder paying the bill without the dog being returned...

Off topic, or actually more, back ON topic... I see where the buyer/Yorkiegirl seems to have responded to this same person already in one of those other threads. What I found distrubing, is that she states how horrible the conditions at the breeders house were. Sooo....if that is the case, then WHY one Earth would you buy a dog from them to begin with? Especially one you had intended on breeding? And if the conditions are so questionable, why would it come as a surprise if you ended up with a sick dog?

It IS wierd, because all this seems to have been hashed out before between these two here on YT. So why is it being brought up again?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I clearly understand but obviously others do not ... again, many are assuming that this is a result of genetics as opposed to being an environmental, toxin, chemical imbalance or injury cause.

I really do not know alot about all the breeding stuff at all but find this interesting to read about. I am wondering if she brought this up because when someone puts her name in google all the threads about her come up? Not sure if that is how it works after so much time so maybe some others can let me know.

What was the final diagnosis on the pup?

Things that cause seizures in dogs are not always genetic sadly

Some things that cause seizures

Head Trauma

Liver disease - no genetic marker yet and two tested yorks that test negative can throw a shunt pup

Epilepsy - not really genetic per se but usually shows up later in a pups life

Toxins

Hypothyroid - could be genetic as autoimmune disease but thyroid would have to be extremely low for this to happen

Hypoglycemia - low blood sugar and many times tied to liver disease

GME/NME- can be autoimmune disease but something usually triggers it

I am sure there are some I am missing but with seizures it is really tough to say and I would be curious to see what the final diagnosis was of this pup.

here is some more info on seizures

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/seizure...ers/page1.aspx

I am not against video taping for this reason as it helps the vet figure out many times what is going on as dogs rarely do at a vets office what happens at home. Also many times I refer to youtube so owners can help their dog by seeing what a dog that has been diagnosed symptoms are and can help owner compare their dog to another dog with similar symptoms

[DamSweet]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

You would have to read the contract to see what you can and can not do. Plus if you went to a home with substandards then I am sure the breeder could care less about the dogs and their health.

A reputable breeder would be very open to communication about the health of one of their puppies and not immediatley look for other causes.

Again, I believe there is more to the story and other motives behind this whole thread. If you choose to pick and take from this thread then please continue to do your homework. These type of threads always have a lot going on under the surface.

You are absolutely right - I do have a tendency to look over this type of thread, and pick and chose - mostly it is to see what long time YT members have to say. I find that those like yourself have a lot of valuable information to those of us new to the Yorkie breed as well as new to YT, and that is mostly what I look for.
Personally - I find when people want to air their "dirty laundry" in a public forum nothing gets accomplished except for building a long thread of posts of debates between those who do NOT know what is "going on under the surface", as you've said, or taking sides when we don't have a clue who is right or wrong. All our opinions mean nothing - we will all believe who we feel is right. At this point nothing we say or fingers we point will help this puppy which I think is really everyones main concern.
Sometimes I think all we do is fuel the fire - and maybe time better spent welcoming a newbie to this site, offering understanding and compassion to someone who's baby is sick or injured, or just enjoying each others stories and pictures of our babies. This is truly an amazing site full of caring people with a mountain of information and I for one am glad that when I came on here and have posted about concerns I was having with Bridget that there were those out there who had the time to help, and were not involved with a thread where no one wins.
Thanks for "listening", and hopefully I didn't make too many enemies here.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by DamSweet

I find that those like yourself have a lot of valuable information to those of us new to the Yorkie breed as well as new to YT, and that is mostly what I look for.

Awww, now don't tell her that. She's going to go getting a big head on us now.

[animal1]

I'm not trying to stir up things here. I would simply like to point out to people some very recent events that are connected to these post by this person. Why is she using this line in her own breeding program? This line is being used in four of her dogs, two studs and two females.

She not to long ago posted on here 3 litters of puppies she had and two of those litters has the line on both mother and fathers side. One litter has the line in the fathers side.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3055280-post1.html
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3116476-post31.html
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3032752-post1.html
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3033203-post9.html
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3066908-post1.html
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3033203-post9.html

This now means the line has been doubled for these puppies in two of the litters. These puppies have and are being sold to the public by this person.

I just recently found this video of Scooter, before this person posted it on here and I am extremely heartbroken. No one will know the heartache I am going through. I pray little Scooter is doing well. I spoke with several Vets (Not hers) about Scooter when this first started. In their opinion, had the seizures been caused by the breeding, the seizures would not have stopped once the dog food was changed as stated by this person.

I could have posted the video of Scooter in my first post but it is not mine to post. But yet this person feels she can use my copyright material. She recently used a photo of one of my parti stud males on her website. I did not give permission for her to do that. I did not give her permission to use yet something else she removed from my website, prepared by my copyright attorney. This is what she has to say about copyright material.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3019512-post162.htm


If I am such a bad breeder as this person states then why is she breeding these lines herself? Why was she recently using a photo of one of my parti studs on her website? If I am such a dishonest breeder why did I receive an email from this person almost 2 months later wanting yet another puppy from me? (I do still have that email). As I said people need to be made aware of some recent events pertaining to these post this person has made about me.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Awww, now don't tell her that. She's going to go getting a big head on us now.

Hey, maybe now it will match my big butt!!!

[DamSweet]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Awww, now don't tell her that. She's going to go getting a big head on us now.

Then I probably shouldn't tell you that you are also one who's post I look forward to reading - I am always impressed with the amount of knowledge that is here - not to mention thankful as it has helped, reassured and comforted me a million times! Even if they were not directly to me - it was usually something someone else posted that I was also going through! Even if I don't always get the answer I'm looking or hoping for - it is always honest and I Thank you!