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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Defamation, dishonesty and untruths (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/206262-defamation-dishonesty-untruths.html)

Pinehaven 06-15-2010 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3163760)
Sue you assume a lot.
The OP DID have the vets name and phone number.
You can not communicate with someone who will not answer or return phone calls.
Again, I'm assuming, but in addition to the OP having the name and number of the vet, was she also aware that you had given your vet permission to discuss the events with the Breeder? Without your permission, your vet will discuss nothing with anyone.

BTW, is Scooter still on the anti seizure medications to control his seizures?

yorkiegirl2 06-15-2010 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3163773)
Again, I'm assuming, but in addition to the OP having the name and number of the vet, was she also aware that you had given your vet permission to discuss the events with the Breeder? Without your permission, your vet will discuss nothing with anyone.

BTW, is Scooter still on the anti seizure medications to control his seizures?
Yes she was told and the Vet waited on a call from her that never came.
I have not seen Scooter since 2007.

laci32 06-15-2010 09:46 AM
Ok I'm confused .How can an inbred dog be a pedagree ? Why would you breed a half brother and sister. Third why would you buy one . Why is thread going again . sheesh

Mardelin 06-15-2010 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3163094)
Were there other puppies in that litter? Did any of them show any signs of seizures? Were those two dogs mate at any other time? did any of those litters contain puppies that had seizures?

I think it is unfair to blame the breeder for something that has not been proven. I believe that is the issue here. The breeder was called a bad breeder but no one can say that the seizures were due to in-breeding.

It could have been the food, or it could have been caused by head trauma. If there has never been any other dogs in that line with seizures, it seems unlikely that the seizures were caused by faujlty breeding.

Close line breeding is not uncommon with experienced breeders, that know the lines and feel comfortable that there are no hereditary issues in the line.
Jeannie

Half brother to half sister is not line breeding, this is inbreeding. Only the very experienced breeders do this on occassion. Usually when bringing in a new line. It is done to lock in a type, but in doing so you are also locking in faults. So, one has to be very careful when doing and accept responsibility for the outcome. Usually it is done not without the intent of selling puppies. A breeder will keep them and run them through to monitor for months.

Mardelin 06-15-2010 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3163196)
I don't understand why the OP was not given a statement from the vet. Why would the buyer not give her a statement and return the dog for a refund.

No one can expect to be given a refund and still keep the dog.

Things just don't add up.
Jeanie,

Please don't think I'm dogging you. But, your statement is incorrect. Should a puppy have a medical condion that can be managed with meds/surgery. A reputable breeder will return the fee of the dog and allow the pup to be kept. This is done to assist with medical costs.

livingdustmops 06-15-2010 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3163814)
Jeannie

Half brother to half sister is not line breeding, this is inbreeding. Only the very experienced breeders do this on occassion. Usually when bringing in a new line. It is done to lock in a type, but in doing so you are also locking in faults. So, one has to be very careful when doing and accept responsibility for the outcome. Usually it is done not without the intent of selling puppies. A breeder will keep them and run them through to monitor for months.
I think the other key word is "experienced" breeders. I am amazed how many people think they are experienced when they have only been breeding a few years. I remember when I first came on YT this was discussed and I remember someone saying it was not to be done with the faint of heart and usually was by someone with over 20 years of experience. Either the breeder kept the puppies, or placed them in pet homes to follow the lines. It was not done by many breeders because they knew it could be death for the puppies or else a life time of ill health.

I am afraid to many people are doing this without any knowledge or experience or understanding of what the outcome could be.

Mardelin 06-15-2010 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3163822)
I think the other key word is "experienced" breeders. I am amazed how many people think they are experienced when they have only been breeding a few years. I remember when I first came on YT this was discussed and I remember someone saying it was not to be done with the faint of heart and usually was by someone with over 20 years of experience. Either the breeder kept the puppies, or placed them in pet homes to follow the lines. It was not done by many breeders because they knew it could be death for the puppies or else a life time of ill health.

I am afraid to many people are doing this without any knowledge or experience or understanding of what the outcome could be.
I don't know if the # of years of experience has anything to do with it. But, it should only be done by those that have had ample training, taken classes and have the best mentors working with them. I've seen people that have been breeding for 10, 20, 30 years that haven't a clue about breeding. Yes, they breed, but don't have a clue about how to breed.

livingdustmops 06-15-2010 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3163832)
I don't know if the # of years of experience has anything to do with it. But, it should only be done by those that have had ample training, taken classes and have the best mentors working with them. I've seen people that have been breeding for 10, 20, 30 years that haven't a clue about breeding. Yes, they breed, but don't have a clue about how to breed.
You are right, number of years mean nothing. Heck the Hunt Corporation has been breeding longer than many breeders on YT and they don't have a clue except how to churn out puppies.

chachi 06-15-2010 10:29 AM
IM amazed by some of the statements by breeders on here

BamaFan121s 06-15-2010 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3163832)
I don't know if the # of years of experience has anything to do with it. But, it should only be done by those that have had ample training, taken classes and have the best mentors working with them. I've seen people that have been breeding for 10, 20, 30 years that haven't a clue about breeding. Yes, they breed, but don't have a clue about how to breed.
So true! Ample training and education are the key! I see similar mindsets in regards to the sheer number of litters one has produced as well and I just don't get it. Quantity and Quality are not synonomous. If that were the case, then there are some puppy millers churning out litters left and right that I'm sure have more "experience" then most here. I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone turn to them for advice! :eek:

animal1 06-15-2010 10:51 AM
To answer your questions JeanieK. Scooter has a full sister whom as of to date now has had NO seizures. Yes Scooters parents were bred to other dogs and none of those puppies ever produced puppies with seizures that I know of to this date.

No I was not given a name and number of Mrs McSwains Vet. No I was never given a Vet statement. I have bought puppies in the past and if the puppy was found to have a problem by my Vet, my Vet would call the breeder themself. I have dealt with several Vets in my lifetime and this has been common practice by all those Vets. I did not receive a call from her Vet.

Mrs. McSwain, would you please share the new owners phone number with me so I can find out for myself how Scooter's doing since you have not been concerned enough to talk with them in the last 3 years?

I in no way come on here to hurt or offend anyone - I'm just here to try to repair my damaged name and felt that these issues needed to be pointed out.

Princes mom 06-15-2010 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamSweet (Post 3163696)
With time, women gain weight because we accumulate so much information and wisdom in our heads that when there is no more room, it distributes out to the rest of our bodies.
So we aren't heavy, we are enormously cultured, educated and happy.
Beginning today, when I look at my butt in the mirror I will think, "Good grief, look how smart I am!"
(Must be where phrase Smart Ass came from:)
Well, I guess I need some more knowledge to fill in some of these "dimples" that appeared overnight!!

Wylie's Mom 06-15-2010 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamSweet (Post 3163696)
With time, women gain weight because we accumulate so much information and wisdom in our heads that when there is no more room, it distributes out to the rest of our bodies.
So we aren't heavy, we are enormously cultured, educated and happy.
Beginning today, when I look at my butt in the mirror I will think, "Good grief, look how smart I am!"
(Must be where phrase Smart Ass came from) :)
{Sorry to interrupt this thread but....}

You are SIMPLY AWESOME :D:p:D!

Rhetts_mama 06-15-2010 11:21 AM
OK, I should probably shut up, but I have to say that genetics are complicated. It's possible for a line to carry a recessive gene (say for a protein chain deficiency) and it will not be expressed for many generations. That's because each dog will still have one good gene that overrides a defect.

The line will continue fine until two dogs who both carry it (say half-siblings) breed. Then each of their pups will have a 1:4 chance of not carrying the gene at all, 2:4 chance of carrying the gene and being totally healthy (but now they are both carriers themselves) and a 1:4 chance of getting both copies of the gene and then expressing symptoms.

Plus then there is always the possibility of a spontaneous gene mutation that NO ONE could have seen coming, no matter what the lineage.


I'm NOT saying this is what happened in THIS case. Just that because only one pup out of a litter is sick and the rest are healthy and because this type of thing hadn't happened in the line before now doesn't rule out that there is a genetic component.

Mardelin 06-15-2010 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 3163909)
{Sorry to interrupt this thread but....}

You are SIMPLY AWESOME :D:p:D!
Dang! I must be losing wisdom, since I'm a skinny person and losing my butt.:confused:


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