Newbie with a question

[lostnomad]

My hubby got me a 5 month old Yorkie for Valentines Day. When we got him he weighed 3.3 lbs and was told he wouldn't get but a few ounces bigger. Well, he's 4.4 lbs now and 8 months old. Not big by any means but certainly more than I expected. Even the vet was surprised he gained so much. Anywho, this isn't my question.

What I'd like to know is if any of you have the same issues with your Yorkie. Tensley views everything as a negative. It's hard to explain! I can't get him to do anything I want him to do. He knows his commands, fully understands everything I say but if it's not what he wants to do in the here and now he's NOT going to do it. Treat or no treat, he's not doing it! I typically have to threaten him with "butt paper" (he understands that word well) for him to react. It's frustrating because he is so smart! I love this little guy beyond words. I just can't figure out how to get him to listen. I really didn't expect such a small package to contain such a Terrier attitude.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[yorkieusa]

Yorkies are terriers and do have strong terrier instincts. He's going thru a stage at this time (being 5 months) and it should improve down the road. Use only positive training and have him neutered as soon as his permanent teeth are in so you can have any retained baby teeth removed at the same time. That will help you avoid placing him under anesthesia more than once. I think neutering him will also help.

[MariaD]

I'm sorry, I have no advice. I just wanted to reply and let you know I share your pain. I have a 7 month old female yorkie with such an unbelievable attitude!!! Everything is when or how "she" wants it. She doesn't listen either. Love her to death, but I am hoping it's just the age and she will grow out of it. I mean, she used to be so good, and then it's like she turned into a rebellious teenager!! I will be watching to see if anyone can post some good advice!

[Doodlebug]

Hi Welcome to YorkieTalk! I had the same problem with Daisy. Only difference is she LOVES treats and that is how I got her trained. We took her to obedience training at 1 yr old and she did outstanding. We still work with training every day while we are walking at the park.

Maybe you should look for another treat that she likes better. Some people give Cheerios for a treat and our trainer recommended little pieces of hot dog for dogs that won't eat treats. We used dried liver treats in training class. Daisy loves green beans and fruit and will do anything for a green bean or fruit. She knows sit, stay, come, leave it, drop it, wait, stay close, stop, go to bed, find the car, and lots more. She is a dream dog now.

Once Daisy was trained she was (and still is) the perfect dog. She used to run out the door and escape to the neighborhood to run and run. Now she will walk out to the car by my side and hop in. Maybe your pup will respond better to a toy. Hang in there and keep working with him and I'm sure he will end up being the perfect dog just like Daisy. He sounds like he is very intelligent already!

Oh and if he gets larger than you expected, there will be more Yorkie to love. Daisy was supposed to be 7 lbs and she is now 15 lbs at age 6. And she is not only the perfect dog, she is the perfect size and we love her just the way she is.

Please don't ever spank him for not obeying, you will never get a Yorkie to respond to spankings. Just so you know.

[yorkieusa]

Originally Posted by MariaD

I'm sorry, I have no advice. I just wanted to reply and let you know I share your pain. I have a 7 month old female yorkie with such an unbelievable attitude!!! Everything is when or how "she" wants it. She doesn't listen either. Love her to death, but I am hoping it's just the age and she will grow out of it. I mean, she used to be so good, and then it's like she turned into a rebellious teenager!! I will be watching to see if anyone can post some good advice!

They do go thru a stage, but thank goodness it doesn't last forever.

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by MariaD

I'm sorry, I have no advice. I just wanted to reply and let you know I share your pain. I have a 7 month old female yorkie with such an unbelievable attitude!!! Everything is when or how "she" wants it. She doesn't listen either. Love her to death, but I am hoping it's just the age and she will grow out of it. I mean, she used to be so good, and then it's like she turned into a rebellious teenager!! I will be watching to see if anyone can post some good advice!

Hi Maria, welcome to YorkieTalk. My Daisy was EXACTLY like yours and lostnomads. She was a holy terror when she was a pup. It takes a lot of patience and trying to "get into her brain" to figure them out.

Our trainer told us if your dog is wild, sit on the couch and watch tv or something with your pup by your side. Each time he tries to get up and leave gently hold him in place and don't speak. You can also do this standing up. When the pup tries to wiggle out of your arms, just hold them and when they are quiet you can let them down. This tells the pup that you are the boss and they will get down when YOU want them to. It worked wonders with Daisy. She got the message pretty quickly. It was shortly after she learned who the boss was the she quit pooping and peeing in the house. Believe it or not she was a much happier dog once she learned obedience.

If you want to schedule training class for your babies, make sure they have had all of their puppy shots first before they come into contact with other dogs.

[yorkieusa]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

Hi Welcome to YorkieTalk! I had the same problem with Daisy. Only difference is she LOVES treats and that is how I got her trained. We took her to obedience training at 1 yr old and she did outstanding. We still work with training every day while we are walking at the park.

Maybe you should look for another treat that she likes better. Some people give Cheerios for a treat and our trainer recommended little pieces of hot dog for dogs that won't eat treats. We used dried liver treats in training class. Daisy loves green beans and fruit and will do anything for a green bean or fruit. She knows sit, stay, come, leave it, drop it, wait, stay close, stop, go to bed, find the car, and lots more. She is a dream dog now.

Once Daisy was trained she was (and still is) the perfect dog. She used to run out the door and escape to the neighborhood to run and run. Now she will walk out to the car by my side and hop in. Maybe your pup will respond better to a toy. Hang in there and keep working with him and I'm sure he will end up being the perfect dog just like Daisy. He sounds like he is very intelligent already!

Oh and if he gets larger than you expected, there will be more Yorkie to love. Daisy was supposed to be 7 lbs and she is now 15 lbs at age 6. And she is not only the perfect dog, she is the perfect size and we love her just the way she is.

Please don't ever spank him for not obeying, you will never get a Yorkie to respond to spankings. Just so you know.

Was that what she meant by butt paper?

Wow! I didn't understand. No, no, no. Never, ever spank them. You will never get them trained doing that, plus they will fear you.

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by yorkieusa

Was that what she meant by butt paper?

Wow! I didn't understand. No, no, no. Never, ever spank them. You will never get them trained doing that, plus they will fear you.

The way it was worded with the word "threaten" I assumed it was a newspaper spanking. (Quote: "I typically have to threaten him with "butt paper" (he understands that word well) for him to react.") In the "old days" that is how people trained dogs. It only made them afraid of you instead of wanting to obey. But that's OK, when you know better, you do better. Positive training works!

[lostnomad]

Originally Posted by yorkieusa

Was that what she meant by butt paper?

Wow! I didn't understand. No, no, no. Never, ever spank them. You will never get them trained doing that, plus they will fear you.

Tensley is NEVER spanked! The "butt paper" is a rolled piece of paper that our vet suggested using for the "dog with attitude". How a Yorkie knows what's it all about it beyond me but Tensley does. The vet says it forces the Terrier mind to refocus. Tensley certainly refocuses when I mention "butt paper" (I think he's wondering if I'll ever use it). I'd rather use the positive reinforcement method though. HOWEVER (and that's a big however), my vet does NOT advocate using treats all the time since this is how alot of Yorkies put on weight. It's almost a double edge sort of thing. Sometimes, when he gets the "super 'tude" going though I have to remove him from everything and put him in his crate. That breaks my heart!

I've heard from some Yorkie owners that it does get better when they reach about a year old or so. They say it's almost like a light switch goes off in their minds and they become the best little dogs in the world. I can only hope!

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by lostnomad

Tensley is NEVER spanked! The "butt paper" is a rolled piece of paper that our vet suggested using for the "dog with attitude". How a Yorkie knows what's it all about it beyond me but Tensley does. The vet says it forces the Terrier mind to refocus. Tensley certainly refocuses when I mention "butt paper" (I think he's wondering if I'll ever use it). I'd rather use the positive reinforcement method though. HOWEVER (and that's a big however), my vet does NOT advocate using treats all the time since this is how alot of Yorkies put on weight. It's almost a double edge sort of thing. Sometimes, when he gets the "super 'tude" going though I have to remove him from everything and put him in his crate. That breaks my heart!

I've heard fromm some Yorkie owners that it does get better when they reach about a year old or so. They say it's almost like a light switch goes off in their minds and they become the best little dogs in the world. I can only hope!

Oh, ok sorry, I never heard of that. We started out giving treats when first learning. Now we break a treat into several pieces and they get a treat after several tricks are done. That way they don't get that many. They keep working anticipating that treat. That's what worked best for us. Our vet recommended the green beans and they worked for us too.

Daisy definitely had the 'light switch' moment. You could almost see it going on. But we did have a 6 month old puppy in our training class and he outdid every other dog. I don't know if that is common though.

[yorkieusa]

Originally Posted by lostnomad

Tensley is NEVER spanked! The "butt paper" is a rolled piece of paper that our vet suggested using for the "dog with attitude". How a Yorkie knows what's it all about it beyond me but Tensley does. The vet says it forces the Terrier mind to refocus. Tensley certainly refocuses when I mention "butt paper" (I think he's wondering if I'll ever use it). I'd rather use the positive reinforcement method though. HOWEVER (and that's a big however), my vet does NOT advocate using treats all the time since this is how alot of Yorkies put on weight. It's almost a double edge sort of thing. Sometimes, when he gets the "super 'tude" going though I have to remove him from everything and put him in his crate. That breaks my heart!

I've heard from some Yorkie owners that it does get better when they reach about a year old or so. They say it's almost like a light switch goes off in their minds and they become the best little dogs in the world. I can only hope!

OK. Do you walk him a lot? That usually wears them down, so that they are calmer, too. It has always worked great for us. They have tons of energy at that age and they are also soooooooo eager to learn and see everything around them. They're truly the most wonderful little one's in the world.

[TatumsMom]

As for treats, Cheerios are very low-cal. That's mostly what Tatum gets - like when she comes in from pottying. She gets a dried liver treat after her bath along with a bully stick but other than that, we mostly give Cheerios. And I agree, positive reinforcement is the way to go. I remember "back in the day" when a swat on the hind end was how we disciplined our dogs but we've learned that this only teaches fear. And I would think that this goes for "threatening the butt paper" also. Not sure exactly how that's worked for you so far but I hope you find the trick to disciplining Tensley.

As for his size, I don't remember what Tatum weighed at 5 months but the typical way to determine "possible" adult weight is to triple their 12 week weight. And that's still no guarantee.

Good luck with your baby!

[Britster]

I think an obedience class would be wonderful for you two. I never took one, as I trained Jackson by myself, but I still want to take one just for the socialization and extra training. It seems like it'd be fun.

A good thing to teach is 'focus' or 'watch me'. I've found clicker training to be a wonderful method, as a clicker is more consistent, human voice is not. But using the same phrase like 'yes!' when they do the correct thing works just as well. Go to youtube.com and search for users 'kikopup' and 'zakgeorge21' You can learn quite a bit from them (I know I have). I find training to be so fun and it really forms a bond between you and your dog. Jackson knows over 30 tricks now and all we done with just us two having fun. It's usually only 10-15 minutes a night out of our day. He really LOVES performing his tricks, and that's why I do it, because it occupies his mind, he enjoys it, and will even come over to me at night (when I'm usually on the computer) and start whining at my feet and when he sees the clicker he gets all excited. Once he becomes bored with it, we stop, and end training sessions on a good note.

As for your pups size, nothing is a guarantee, and no breeder should ever guarantee a size. Jackson was 6lbs at 12 weeks old, 8.6lbs at 16 weeks old, and by 6 months he was around 12lbs. He continued to grow past 1 year of age and is now almost 16lbs lol. He's a perfect size for me though and I wouldn't want him any other way.

The best advice I can give you is make everything FUN! If the pup doesn't wanna do it, it's because they're not enjoying themselves. The human should be calm, patient, and not get frustrated or angry, being calm yourself really reflects on your dog as they feed off our energy, since they do not speak English, energy is huge! Good luck with everything!

[Lizzie07]

I'm not exactly liking your vet very much. How many performance titles has he put on his dogs? When did he go to school and how much continuing education has he had in behavioral issues? How many dogs has he trained?

I do a LOT of reading about training, have agility titles on three dogs, and no where, not one place, in one publication or anything else have I heard of using "butt paper." I have heard of taking a rolled up newspaper and whacking your own head with it if you dog misbehaves and you don't catch him at it.

The only time you need to worry about treats causing a dog to become overweight is when you aren't smart enough to adjust their meals accordingly. I have to eyeball my dogs all the time to determine how much to feed them. It's a curse, frankly, that not only do I have to watch my own weight, I have to watch the weight of my six dogs as well, but I do probably over use treats.

You shouldn't have to treat a dog everytime he does something right. As a dog is learning something new, yes, you have to treat more frequently, but as he starts getting it, you vary the treats with praise, good praise, maybe along with a nice back scratch. Give the treats intermittently. Luring is fine to use if you are training something new, too, but as the dog learns the command, you shouldn't have to continue to lure.

The best training you can do, hands down, is positive training. It doesn't necessarily mean giving treats. If your dog loves toys, and isn't very treat motivated, use toys. If you want to work on the "Come" command, using a toy, tell the dog to come, (if he doesn't know the command, squeak the toy to lure him) and when he gets to you, give him the toy and play with him a little, along with giving lots of praise. If you're making it a training session, take the toy, wait for the dog to move away from you or go to another room, tell him to come and squeak the toy again. Again, give him the toy and have a little play session as you give lots of praise.

The key to positve based training is to make the dog believe that nothing is as fun or great as doing something for you. Don't punish or do something negative (be it a bath, nails or cleaning ears) after you give a command of any kind. Why would a dog come to you if he thought he would get punished or have something he didn't like happen to him? Dogs are way smarter than that. Always think about what you are expecting and if there is anything in it for the dog. Make being with you worthwhile.

When I train for agility, if I take my dogs out to the back yard to practice and they "blow" me off, usually my novice dogs, then the training session ends. Yes, it frustrates me, but if they can't play my way, they can't play. If I have to get them to take them in, I just go get them. I say nothing, I sure don't call them. The next time, if they do the same, again, we quit. If they don't want to do it, they aren't going to. I don't beg them to work with me. You'd be amazed at how fast they realize that the point in going out to where the agility equipment is located is to do agility and that its more fun to play with me than it is to sit in the house alone. If I have to put one dog up and have fun with another, then I get the another dog. What I won't do is reprimand a dog in any way. I want them to WANT to do something for me and enjoy being with me. That's MY reward.

Training is no fun if the dog isn't having fun. Supposedly our intelligence is greater than a dog's, so we should be able to figure out a way to get a dog to do something for us without punishment or threats, that is the basis for positive training. Make not doing it less rewarding than doing it, but don't punish, whatever it is you want a dog to do.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Britster

A good thing to teach is 'focus' or 'watch me'. I've found clicker training to be a wonderful method, as a clicker is more consistent, human voice is not. But using the same phrase like 'yes!' when they do the correct thing works just as well.

I'm the opposite. I find the clicker to be useless. Most of the commands I teach Kaji, I use outside the house. I don't want to have to carry a clicker around everywhere, and my voice is with me 24/7. I don't even carry a purse!
I was taught how to use the clicker by the SPCA in my area, but it's my personal choice not to use it. It's another option to use if treats alone don't work.

Originally Posted by Britster

The best advice I can give you is make everything FUN! If the pup doesn't wanna do it, it's because they're not enjoying themselves. The human should be calm, patient, and not get frustrated or angry, being calm yourself really reflects on your dog as they feed off our energy, since they do not speak English, energy is huge! Good luck with everything!