Am i being a bad mom??? Please read :( - YorkieTalk.com Forums

shobi1011 · 04-09-2010, 06:51 PM

Ok so here is the scoop.. I have a 6 month old male (shobi) and I love him to death.. BUT.. I have a couple of issues that I need some help with. First.. I recently switched him to Natural Balance (ultra premium). I realized that it wasn't grain-free which is something that I wanted to try since he an itchin fool. So when he was done with that bag I transitioned him to Natural Balance (same brand) Potato & Duck. Unfortunately I have ran into some issues since. He has thrown up twice. Although one time was after he ate dinner he went into a barking frenzy then threw up. The second time was today he ate dinner then just threw it all up, but again he had an exciting day being outside all day. BUT im not sure if I am the problem being that I feed him 2x a day about 3/4 cup total. I know they are supposed to have 3-4 small meals a day, but with work that is the only way I can do it. Is it too much at one time??? Sorry all the questions!!! 2nd problem is if I get after him he starts barking hysterically and will jump at me and try to nip at me. He hasnt bit me yet but I dont want him to either. Any suggestions?? Thank you so much!!! hope to hear back

LovingMyChloe · 04-09-2010, 07:00 PM

i work 8-10 hour days 5 days a week and i leave out plenty food and water for my Chloe all day... yea when i get home there's some poop here and there but i dont mind picking it up as long as she doesnt starve!! and Chloe sometimes runs when i try to pick her up but thats if she sees the brush in my hand lolz a lil baby talk always does the trick

Shea-devil · 04-09-2010, 07:00 PM

when you switched the food did you gradually mix it in with the old food? and about the nipping routine...shea is also 6 months and does the same thing. Only she may be a bit more excessive than yours, as she likes to use out hands as chew toys rather than her chew toys alllll the time. And if we yell at her she does this jump forward nip thing at the face...she is lucky she has not gotten my face yet because than she will have one mad mommy. Try this with yours... when he bites, roll him on to his back and place two of your fingers on either side of his neck(not tight obviously, just enough so that he cant get up) let him mellow out and when he calms down and when you want him to, let him up but dont talk to him too much. I found that this has started to work with Shea. I think it is a dominance thing. Good luck!

shobi1011 · 04-09-2010, 07:03 PM

Well yea I leave plenty of food and water also. Whatever he doesnt finish for breakfast I leave in his playpen and if he does finish it I divide of the second meal, but majority of the time the food will be there when i get home.

shobi1011 · 04-09-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shea-devil

when you switched the food did you gradually mix it in with the old food? and about the nipping routine...shea is also 6 months and does the same thing. Only she may be a bit more excessive than yours, as she likes to use out hands as chew toys rather than her chew toys alllll the time. And if we yell at her she does this jump forward nip thing at the face...she is lucky she has not gotten my face yet because than she will have one mad mommy. Try this with yours... when he bites, roll him on to his back and place two of your fingers on either side of his neck(not tight obviously, just enough so that he cant get up) let him mellow out and when he calms down and when you want him to, let him up but dont talk to him too much. I found that this has started to work with Shea. I think it is a dominance thing. Good luck!

I will try that... And yes he does try to be the dominant one.. Thanks again.. oh and yes I did switch it gradually I am just wondering if I switched him to another flavor too fast??

brendah · 04-09-2010, 07:08 PM

I think you have received some great advice. I also use natural balance potato and duck, mine love it. I just want to welcome you to YT in case I missed your first post

kate07 · 04-09-2010, 07:29 PM

The have automatic feeding bowls if you want to feed him smaller portions 4 times a day. You put the correct amount of food in the slot and set a timer that dispenses the meal/feeding slot at set times. Also, did he just throw up with the NB Potato & Duck or also with the NB ultra premium? My guess is it's only happened 2 times and you have fed him quite a bit both brands (the NB P&D and Ultra Premium) it's not the food itself.

kate07 · 04-09-2010, 07:47 PM

As far as the biting, it's not something you can excuse in my opinion. With playful biting (there's obvious signs it's playful vs. fearful or aggressive) you should say "OUCH, NO!" and remove your hand or whatever and substitute with a toy. If he continues, just stand there and ignore him. They soon learn that when they play too rough, you don't want to play with them anymore. I also read that that you can say the "OUCH, NO" and pinch them VERY lightly on their neck and them ignore them or put them in their pen or whatever.

With fearful biting (sounds like your situation - can be when an owner punishes the dog and swoops down to grab him), our dog may have found that warning growls and bites makes you (the threatened person) STOP, which teaches your dog that such behavior is rewarding. With this I've read that you don't want to place your fear-aggressive dog in situations that could cause him to be afraid, don't punish the dog for this behavior (only makes things worse because it verifies his fear), don't force your dog to face his fears, don't corner or reach for him and instead call the dog to you and have him act calm or do a trick for a reward, but also don't reassure or pet the dog while he is acting inappropriately because it gives the dog a message that he is acting appropriately.

As far as "alpha rolls" forcing your dog on his back and holding him there until he stops struggling . I've read that you shouldn't use them. And they have been shown to be in effective, unsafe and based on faulty interpretations of wolf pack behavior. I read that it often results in more dog bites as you are trying to subdue an already challenging dog....

Chloes dad · 04-09-2010, 08:00 PM

Ok so first i would like to say that some people will not agree with what I am about to say..And that's ok .But In my case this worked for me.

A little back round: Chloe used to be a terror!! It was around 4months old when I even posted a thread asking if it were possible for your dog to hate you..lol She never listened, She tore everything up furniture, molding, carpet, cords, cord's and more cords. She wasn't making any progress with potty issues In fact she would pee right in front of me and even on the couch! I tried everything from bitter sprays etc. The last straw was she lunged at my face a lot and she would nip me in the nose or lip.The only thing she never did was bark (luckily).

I called my breeder and she told me it was all about dominance. She told me a trick she had used that was controversial. When the dog bit she would grab him/her and bite their ear. Not hard enough to do damage to actually hurt them, But apply enough pressure for them to make a noise. She explained that when dogs are with other dogs playing, They bite each other to show dominance not to hurt each other. Well I reluctantly tried it.... But it worked!! She got the point right away, I think I only had to do it twice. I also made my commands very clear, And simple, keeping them to one word. I also made sure she had lots of chew toys and while playing with her if she nipped my hands id Drop the toy, put my hands behind my back, And leave the room for 10-15 min to show I was not happy.

She is now 8months old and She is a compleatly different dog. No chewing what-so-ever, 99.9% potty trained, plays fetch, obeys commands like sit, stay, ect. And if she does do something bad and I even have to say the word bad, She puts her ears down, And will beg for forgiveness with licks. She is also always praised by for everything good. Every time I see her go potty where shes supposed to, when she sits, stays etc. getting older prob played a factor but being consistent, and showing dominance I now have the best companion I could ever ask for!

Sorry so long, Hope that helps & best of luck!

Ladymom · 04-09-2010, 08:55 PM

Please, please don't use the Alpha Roll on your Yorkie.

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Snookie · 04-09-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Please, please don't use the Alpha Roll on your Yorkie.

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Thank you so much for that article! It was very different from what i thought I knew about dogs! Glad you posted it!

Shea-devil · 04-10-2010, 01:29 PM

you are not harming your puppy by placing it on it's back and holding it. You are not abusing it. You are using a submissive move that a yorkie(and any other dog breed) uses naturally with eachother. And to be honest with you this has actually been the ONLY technique that we have made progress with shea. I dont believe you can "ignore" a dog when they bite you. You are not teaching the dog that what they are doing is unacceptable. Yorkshire terriers are just that, a terrier. They will do as they please because that is what they want to do...unless you show them another way. I have also tried the "ouch" technique on shea...unfortunately, it actually got her more hyped up and made her nip more. Go figure...it couldn't be easy!

Ladymom · 04-10-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shea-devil

you are not harming your puppy by placing it on it's back and holding it. You are not abusing it. You are using a submissive move that a yorkie(and any other dog breed) uses naturally with eachother.

I suggest you read the article I posted above.

For example, alpha rolls. The early researchers saw this behavior and concluded that the higher-ranking wolf was forcibly rolling the subordinate to exert his dominance. Well, not exactly. This is actually an "appeasement ritual" instigated by the SUBORDINATE wolf. The subordinate offers his muzzle, and when the higher-ranking wolf "pins" it, the lower-ranking wolf voluntarily rolls and presents his belly. There is NO force. It is all entirely voluntary.

A wolf would flip another wolf against his will ONLY if he were planning to kill it. Can you imagine what a forced alpha roll does to the psyche of our dogs?

pancakepat · 04-10-2010, 02:12 PM

Some will probably disagree w/me but I found w/my dog, anything w/duck was to rich. She didn't vomit, but it would give her the runs. That's just my experience. If I remember, you didn't have vomiting problems until you switched to duck.

kate07 · 04-10-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shea-devil

you are not harming your puppy by placing it on it's back and holding it. You are not abusing it. You are using a submissive move that a yorkie(and any other dog breed) uses naturally with eachother. And to be honest with you this has actually been the ONLY technique that we have made progress with shea. I dont believe you can "ignore" a dog when they bite you. You are not teaching the dog that what they are doing is unacceptable. Yorkshire terriers are just that, a terrier. They will do as they please because that is what they want to do...unless you show them another way. I have also tried the "ouch" technique on shea...unfortunately, it actually got her more hyped up and made her nip more. Go figure...it couldn't be easy!

Actually you are teaching them. You are teaching them that with that behavior (biting) they aren't going to receive attention and you've had it with the biting and play. Ignoring them is the punishment. It's a quick way to stop the behavior and with repetition they learn that the behavior doesn't earn them any rewards or positive reinforcement. It's basic Psychology 101.

04-09-2010, 06:51 PM	#1
shobi1011 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: buda Posts: 35 Blog Entries: 1	Am i being a bad mom??? Please read :( Ok so here is the scoop.. I have a 6 month old male (shobi) and I love him to death.. BUT.. I have a couple of issues that I need some help with. First.. I recently switched him to Natural Balance (ultra premium). I realized that it wasn't grain-free which is something that I wanted to try since he an itchin fool. So when he was done with that bag I transitioned him to Natural Balance (same brand) Potato & Duck. Unfortunately I have ran into some issues since. He has thrown up twice. Although one time was after he ate dinner he went into a barking frenzy then threw up. The second time was today he ate dinner then just threw it all up, but again he had an exciting day being outside all day. BUT im not sure if I am the problem being that I feed him 2x a day about 3/4 cup total. I know they are supposed to have 3-4 small meals a day, but with work that is the only way I can do it. Is it too much at one time??? Sorry all the questions!!! 2nd problem is if I get after him he starts barking hysterically and will jump at me and try to nip at me. He hasnt bit me yet but I dont want him to either. Any suggestions?? Thank you so much!!! hope to hear back

04-09-2010, 07:00 PM	#2
LovingMyChloe Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 23	i work 8-10 hour days 5 days a week and i leave out plenty food and water for my Chloe all day... yea when i get home there's some poop here and there but i dont mind picking it up as long as she doesnt starve!! and Chloe sometimes runs when i try to pick her up but thats if she sees the brush in my hand lolz a lil baby talk always does the trick __________________ ~Histories are more full of examples of the fidelity of dogs than of friends. A. Pope~

04-09-2010, 08:00 PM	#9
Chloes dad Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kenosha,wi,USA Posts: 117	Ok so first i would like to say that some people will not agree with what I am about to say..And that's ok .But In my case this worked for me. A little back round: Chloe used to be a terror!! It was around 4months old when I even posted a thread asking if it were possible for your dog to hate you..lol She never listened, She tore everything up furniture, molding, carpet, cords, cord's and more cords. She wasn't making any progress with potty issues In fact she would pee right in front of me and even on the couch! I tried everything from bitter sprays etc. The last straw was she lunged at my face a lot and she would nip me in the nose or lip.The only thing she never did was bark (luckily). I called my breeder and she told me it was all about dominance. She told me a trick she had used that was controversial. When the dog bit she would grab him/her and bite their ear. Not hard enough to do damage to actually hurt them, But apply enough pressure for them to make a noise. She explained that when dogs are with other dogs playing, They bite each other to show dominance not to hurt each other. Well I reluctantly tried it.... But it worked!! She got the point right away, I think I only had to do it twice. I also made my commands very clear, And simple, keeping them to one word. I also made sure she had lots of chew toys and while playing with her if she nipped my hands id Drop the toy, put my hands behind my back, And leave the room for 10-15 min to show I was not happy. She is now 8months old and She is a compleatly different dog. No chewing what-so-ever, 99.9% potty trained, plays fetch, obeys commands like sit, stay, ect. And if she does do something bad and I even have to say the word bad, She puts her ears down, And will beg for forgiveness with licks. She is also always praised by for everything good. Every time I see her go potty where shes supposed to, when she sits, stays etc. getting older prob played a factor but being consistent, and showing dominance I now have the best companion I could ever ask for! Sorry so long, Hope that helps & best of luck! __________________ ~~~~~~Chloe& Kallie~~~~~~

04-09-2010, 08:55 PM	#10
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	Please, please don't use the Alpha Roll on your Yorkie. ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf

04-09-2010, 07:00 PM	#3
Shea-devil Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Milford Posts: 18	when you switched the food did you gradually mix it in with the old food? and about the nipping routine...shea is also 6 months and does the same thing. Only she may be a bit more excessive than yours, as she likes to use out hands as chew toys rather than her chew toys alllll the time. And if we yell at her she does this jump forward nip thing at the face...she is lucky she has not gotten my face yet because than she will have one mad mommy. Try this with yours... when he bites, roll him on to his back and place two of your fingers on either side of his neck(not tight obviously, just enough so that he cant get up) let him mellow out and when he calms down and when you want him to, let him up but dont talk to him too much. I found that this has started to work with Shea. I think it is a dominance thing. Good luck!

04-09-2010, 07:03 PM	#4
shobi1011 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: buda Posts: 35 Blog Entries: 1	Well yea I leave plenty of food and water also. Whatever he doesnt finish for breakfast I leave in his playpen and if he does finish it I divide of the second meal, but majority of the time the food will be there when i get home.

04-09-2010, 07:08 PM	#6
brendah Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: western KS Posts: 1,320	I think you have received some great advice. I also use natural balance potato and duck, mine love it. I just want to welcome you to YT in case I missed your first post

04-09-2010, 07:29 PM	#7
kate07 BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 93	The have automatic feeding bowls if you want to feed him smaller portions 4 times a day. You put the correct amount of food in the slot and set a timer that dispenses the meal/feeding slot at set times. Also, did he just throw up with the NB Potato & Duck or also with the NB ultra premium? My guess is it's only happened 2 times and you have fed him quite a bit both brands (the NB P&D and Ultra Premium) it's not the food itself.

04-09-2010, 07:47 PM	#8
kate07 BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 93	As far as the biting, it's not something you can excuse in my opinion. With playful biting (there's obvious signs it's playful vs. fearful or aggressive) you should say "OUCH, NO!" and remove your hand or whatever and substitute with a toy. If he continues, just stand there and ignore him. They soon learn that when they play too rough, you don't want to play with them anymore. I also read that that you can say the "OUCH, NO" and pinch them VERY lightly on their neck and them ignore them or put them in their pen or whatever. With fearful biting (sounds like your situation - can be when an owner punishes the dog and swoops down to grab him), our dog may have found that warning growls and bites makes you (the threatened person) STOP, which teaches your dog that such behavior is rewarding. With this I've read that you don't want to place your fear-aggressive dog in situations that could cause him to be afraid, don't punish the dog for this behavior (only makes things worse because it verifies his fear), don't force your dog to face his fears, don't corner or reach for him and instead call the dog to you and have him act calm or do a trick for a reward, but also don't reassure or pet the dog while he is acting inappropriately because it gives the dog a message that he is acting appropriately. As far as "alpha rolls" forcing your dog on his back and holding him there until he stops struggling . I've read that you shouldn't use them. And they have been shown to be in effective, unsafe and based on faulty interpretations of wolf pack behavior. I read that it often results in more dog bites as you are trying to subdue an already challenging dog....

04-10-2010, 01:29 PM	#12
Shea-devil Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Milford Posts: 18	you are not harming your puppy by placing it on it's back and holding it. You are not abusing it. You are using a submissive move that a yorkie(and any other dog breed) uses naturally with eachother. And to be honest with you this has actually been the ONLY technique that we have made progress with shea. I dont believe you can "ignore" a dog when they bite you. You are not teaching the dog that what they are doing is unacceptable. Yorkshire terriers are just that, a terrier. They will do as they please because that is what they want to do...unless you show them another way. I have also tried the "ouch" technique on shea...unfortunately, it actually got her more hyped up and made her nip more. Go figure...it couldn't be easy!

04-10-2010, 02:12 PM	#14
pancakepat Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kansas, the sunflower state USA Posts: 242	Some will probably disagree w/me but I found w/my dog, anything w/duck was to rich. She didn't vomit, but it would give her the runs. That's just my experience. If I remember, you didn't have vomiting problems until you switched to duck.